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  1. #1
    Lumiis is offline Junior Member
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    Best Concealed Caliber

    A little about why I'm buying my first gun, I work EMS and volunteer on a rural fire dept. and rescue squad SAR (search and rescue). Usually average around 10-15 land searches per year, but have never considered carrying a hand gun with me until a tornado ripped through my hometown - laurel co ky on Friday.

    While searching through the effected areas for survivors, I, and others have encountered armed looters, taking what they can, where they can. SAR ops had to be put on hold for hours at a time for city P.D. to take control of the situation.

    I've had CDW permit for about a year now, (fire dept paid for it, and requires it for SAR ops) but never bought a gun. I have my sights set on a glock, but what caliber for my needs? And also, is a glock safe for a concealed weapon? I'm constantly either on a 4 wheeler, using a chainsaw, climbing through brush, and wading / swimming through creeks and small rivers.

    Any input would greatly appreciated, thanks.

  2. #2
    denner's Avatar
    denner is offline Senior Member
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    Glocks are great in a good holster that covers the trigger in my opinion. The best concealed caliber of course is always up to debate. I like 9mm in that it gives you a very good size to capacity ratio and with top end high quality loadings is quite effective and manageable in recoil. The 40 and 45 will give you a slight edge in barrier performance and expansion, but that slight edge doesn't change my choice in 9mm for it's advantage of contollability and capacity. Lets say your choice may be a Glock 19 15+1 in the pistol and two extra mags gives you 46 rounds or you could opt for G-17 mags that hold 17 or even higher capacity mags and you should have enough firepower to hold down the fort until back up arrives. Or you could go w/ a G-26 and carry two G-19 or G17 mags for backup. 40 and 45 of course is very good as well, so I don't believe there is a best, just one that you shoot the best and feel most comfortable with. I myself carry either a PX4 subcompact or compact in 9mm as I prefer a good DA/SA for CC as it would be highly unlikely they would go off w/o some sort of extreme user induced negligence.
    Last edited by denner; 03-06-2012 at 04:59 AM.

  3. #3
    1jimmy's Avatar
    1jimmy is offline Member
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    call glock in smyrna ga. and have them send you a catalog. glock has a few different sizes and weights in most of there calibers. you also may be qualified for a law enforcement discount. as far as caliber as said above that is always open for debate. my choice is 40. as far as safe many police departments across the country have used glocks for many years and i don't think i have ever heard of a problem.

  4. #4
    matt_the_millerman is offline Junior Member
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    Ya one things for sure you definantly need a gun, looters!! As a new ccp holder I first carried w/o a chambered round for the first week or so until i felt totally certain it would be safe fully cocked and loaded. I think most popular holster/gun setups will be safe. A TON of people out there carring glocks.

  5. #5
    Lumiis is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for all the prompt replies, glock catalog is on its way. Also, it's not so much the looters (that was more of a one time thing) but the meth labs and pot fields here, both of which are prevalent, but also guarded and sometimes booby trapped, they may be stupid people, but they're prepared. I want to be also.

    I do qualify for a 10% discount, it's not alot, but every little bit helps.

  6. #6
    KRW
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    Very level headed responses, for such a "caliber wars" post.

    If i could reasonably conceal my 12 Gauge... until then, my M&P40 will give have to do. 40S&W offers a good balance of high velocity, mass and magazine capacity with managable recoil. Some consider it a compromise, i prefer to think of it as optimized.

  7. #7
    TOF's Avatar
    TOF
    TOF is offline Senior Member
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    Glock is a good brand but don't overlook others such as Smith&Wesson, Springfield, Ruger etc. Visit a gun store with shooting range and rent a few before buying. Most of them are suitable for the task but not all will feel right in your hand.

    Caliber wise, if your search & rescue episodes include the backwoods from time to time you may want something a bit stouter than 9MM. I live in an area with plenty of black bears and opt for .45ACP or .40S&W.

    Be sure to obtain a quality holster with solid retension.

    Most Gun and Holster manufacturers have catalogs available online which I find much quicker and easierto use than trying to keep up with ever changing products than a stack of outdated paper.

    Of the currently available crop of pistols, I prefer S&W's M&P45 and 45c.

    Good luck and welcome to the gun world.

  8. #8
    AK_Maine_Iac is offline Junior Member
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    You asked what caliber? You can pick from any semi auto pistol calibers, which would serve you well. But do not over look the revolver calibers. The 44 special in a snubby would be very good to have in in those conditions. You could drop a few bird-shot loads into it for snakes.

  9. #9
    Leo's Avatar
    Leo
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    Quote Originally Posted by denner View Post
    Glocks are great in a good holster that covers the trigger in my opinion. The best concealed caliber of course is always up to debate. I like 9mm in that it gives you a very good size to capacity ratio and with top end high quality loadings is quite effective and manageable in recoil. The 40 and 45 will give you a slight edge in barrier performance and expansion, but that slight edge doesn't change my choice in 9mm for it's advantage of contollability and capacity. Lets say your choice may be a Glock 19 15+1 in the pistol and two extra mags gives you 46 rounds or you could opt for G-17 mags that hold 17 or even higher capacity mags and you should have enough firepower to hold down the fort until back up arrives. Or you could go w/ a G-26 and carry two G-19 or G17 mags for backup. 40 and 45 of course is very good as well, so I don't believe there is a best, just one that you shoot the best and feel most comfortable with. I myself carry either a PX4 subcompact or compact in 9mm as I prefer a good DA/SA for CC as it would be highly unlikely they would go off w/o some sort of extreme user induced negligence.
    +1 on the 9mm for cc. I suggest you also check out the Ruger SR9c and LC9.

  10. #10
    denner's Avatar
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    Of interest, one of the leading coroner's studying wound ballistics and handgun calibers basically had this to say. It's not whether you hit them with a 9mm, 40, or 45, but, where you hit them and with how many.

  11. #11
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Among the reasonably good self-defense calibers, anything you choose will do the job...if you do yours.
    Bullet placement trumps caliber choice, so it's useful to spend as much time as you can becoming accurate, quick, and effective with whatever platform in whatever caliber you end up choosing.

    Glocks have the reputation of being almost indestructible, given reasonable care.
    They also do away with having to remember to switch a safety-lever to "off." This can be a mixed blessing. On the one hand, having to manipulate a separate safety is a good reminder that you are about to loose death and destruction, as your index finger lunges for the trigger. On the other, having no safety to manipulate gives the beginner one less thing to have to learn. You pays your money and you...

    Any reasonably-well-designed pistol is safe to carry fully loaded and ready to shoot, as long as the holster one carries it in retains it securely, and also covers its trigger with leather.
    In your case, different from that of a private citizen carrying concealed, a snap-strap or other retention lock would probably be a good idea. Ask your local police department's pistol instructor or rangemaster for suggestions.

  12. #12
    Highhawk1948's Avatar
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    45 ACP 1911 (I'd by a Colt)

  13. #13
    Jeremy55 is offline Junior Member
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    I myself carry either a PX4 subcompact or compact in 9mm as I prefer a good DA/SA for CC as it would be highly unlikely they would go off w/o some sort of extreme user induced negligence.

  14. #14
    Russ is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiis View Post
    A little about why I'm buying my first gun, I work EMS and volunteer on a rural fire dept. and rescue squad SAR (search and rescue). Usually average around 10-15 land searches per year, but have never considered carrying a hand gun with me until a tornado ripped through my hometown - laurel co ky on Friday.

    While searching through the effected areas for survivors, I, and others have encountered armed looters, taking what they can, where they can. SAR ops had to be put on hold for hours at a time for city P.D. to take control of the situation.

    I've had CDW permit for about a year now, (fire dept paid for it, and requires it for SAR ops) but never bought a gun. I have my sights set on a glock, but what caliber for my needs? And also, is a glock safe for a concealed weapon? I'm constantly either on a 4 wheeler, using a chainsaw, climbing through brush, and wading / swimming through creeks and small rivers.

    Any input would greatly appreciated, thanks.
    Lumis:

    To answer your question it depends how you plan to conceal. I pocket conceal and a Glock 26 is too big. If you plan to conceal IWB a Glock 26 will work just fine.

    If you are looking for a firearm that is small enough to conceal and large enough for 4 legged creatures like a black bear it doesn't exist. Let me explain. A 357 is an excellent black bear round if fired from a 4 inch or greater barrel. However that same round fired from a snub nose 2 inch barrel is close to a 9 mm +P round fired from my 3 inch barrel Beretta Nano I have in my front pocket. I sure would not want to face a black bear with my Beretta Nano.

    Decide how you plan to carry. I love Glocks but they all come in a double stack which is too thick for my pocket that is why I decided on a single stack Beretta 9mm Nano. It is less than an inch thick and around an inch + shorter than the smallest Glock which is the 26.

    Good Luck,

    Russ

  15. #15
    Vector16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRW View Post
    If i could reasonably conceal my 12 Gauge....
    Well the next best thing would be the S&W Govener with the .410 shells. There is nothing like a hand held shotgun. That in my opinion is the ultimate carry gun. You don't really have to aim all that much esspecially in the dark. Next up would have to be the G26 or the Bodyguard.

  16. #16
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vector16 View Post
    Well the next best thing would be the S&W Govener with the .410 shells. There is nothing like a hand held shotgun. That in my opinion is the ultimate carry gun. You don't really have to aim all that much esspecially in the dark. Next up would have to be the G26 or the Bodyguard.
    Sorry, but what you wrote goes against provable fact.
    Neither the Governor nor the Judge are effective self-defense weapons at any distance past perhaps one or two feet, loaded with .410 shotshells or buckshot.
    And if you prefer to use .45 Colt rounds in them, why not buy a .45 Colt revolver in the first place?

    If you want chapter and verse, see: The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1 (Read to the bottom, and follow through all of the pages.)
    For even more, and more specific, information, also see: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

  17. #17
    Russ is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Sorry, but what you wrote goes against provable fact.
    Neither the Governor nor the Judge are effective self-defense weapons at any distance past perhaps one or two feet, loaded with .410 shotshells or buckshot.
    And if you prefer to use .45 Colt rounds in them, why not buy a .45 Colt revolver in the first place?

    If you want chapter and verse, see: The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1 (Read to the bottom, and follow through all of the pages.)
    For even more, and more specific, information, also see: The Box O' Truth #53 - The Taurus Judge, Revisited - Page 1


    Steve:

    I read using bird shot #6 shot lacks penetration in a 12 gauge. If a person is using a 12 gauge shotgun for self defense buck shot will provide penetration similar to a pistol round x the number of pellets coming out the barrel. The downside using a shotgun with buck shot in the house is the pellets can easily travel through walls.

    I think for the home my 45 XD 13 round with hollow points and tactical light is a better option especially with children factored into the mix.

    I just don't like the idea of scattering pellets randomly. At least with a pistol you have some control of placement.

    Russ

  18. #18
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Actually, I watched a gel test with the Judge and Gov.........triple ought buckshot or slug went all the way through the gel block, and there was major damage...problem is, if your neighbors are near by, it may also go through their house or car.........

  19. #19
    wjh2657's Avatar
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    A .22 derringer is the easiest to conceal. Concealibility is not really the issue, effective stopping power of the weapon is primary. That said, a Glock 19 would probably serve you well. I don't have that much experience with the smaller Glocks, somebody else will have to put their experience out for that. I carry a G23 in .40 S&W, but a 9mm is probably more practical for most folks.

  20. #20
    rex
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    Personally I would stay away from Glock.There are many who love it,and many like me that don't.I don't like them for a few reasons but the biggest is it's a poor design that had brilliant marketing.Where's the safety?In the trigger!There's a phenomenon called Glock leg,people have booted one in their leg reholstering because something actuated the trigger and their finger was not near it,and you have to pull the trigger to take it apart to clean-I'll pass.I don't like the grip or the way they shoot,but I'll just stop there.

    Plastic is ideal for your needs but the M&P falls in the Glock catagory for me.The XD has a grip safety that cures the reholster problem but I personally don't like the feel.If you believe you get what you pay for,see if you can try an HK,I bucked the plastic craze for decades but when I broke down to buy one I went straight to the originator of plastic and poligonal rifling (something Glock tried to claim from a few reports).I like the USP platform because I'm a 1911 diehard.They're built like a freakin tank,are very accurate and you'd be hard pressed to ever have a malfunction,and the compact 9 or 45 in any model would serve you well.You also have the choice in triggers of SA,DA/SA,and in DA only you have 4 variations in compact and an extra in fullsize with the option of retaining the safety.

    The safety issue is bunk and a pure lack of the responsibility of knowing your gun and training (practice) with it.For a few decades I've shot and competed with different platforms and never missed a safety whether it's my 1911 or Beretta.We were shooting IPSC matches IDPA style before Wilson started IDPA,tactics were stressed but we weren't working from concealment.If you train right,operating a safety becomes automatic and thoughtless.

    Good luck and try to shoot any choices if you can before buying.
    Last edited by rex; 03-15-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: spelling

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