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  1. #21
    usmcj's Avatar
    usmcj is offline Member
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    Become proficient in stance, grip, and trigger control... with a .22...... once you learn to hit the target consistently, THEN worry about caliber. Select the caliber you can control and hit your target with. You have to try different calibers to see which you prefer. Remember there is a trade-off in handguns..... lighter guns, with shorter barrels, carry easier, but will generate more perceived recoil than heavier, longer-barreled guns.

    Carrying a .500 S&W wouldn't help you if you couldn't hit your intended target with it.

  2. #22
    AK_Maine_Iac is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Sorry, but what you wrote goes against provable fact.
    Neither the Governor nor the Judge are effective self-defense weapons at any distance past perhaps one or two feet, loaded with .410 shotshells or buckshot.
    And if you prefer to use .45 Colt rounds in them, why not buy a .45 Colt revolver in the first place?

    If you want chapter and verse, see: The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1 (Read to the bottom, and follow through all of the pages.)
    For even more, and more specific, information, also see: The Box O' Truth #53 - The Taurus Judge, Revisited - Page 1
    Yeah i hear that Colt is coming out with a model like the Judge / Gov. It is going to be called The "politician" it won't work, not worth a darn, and not dependable. SORRY i could not help myself.

  3. #23
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by denner View Post
    Glocks are great in a good holster that covers the trigger in my opinion. The best concealed caliber of course is always up to debate. I like 9mm in that it gives you a very good size to capacity ratio and with top end high quality loadings is quite effective and manageable in recoil. The 40 and 45 will give you a slight edge in barrier performance and expansion, but that slight edge doesn't change my choice in 9mm for it's advantage of contollability and capacity. Lets say your choice may be a Glock 19 15+1 in the pistol and two extra mags gives you 46 rounds or you could opt for G-17 mags that hold 17 or even higher capacity mags and you should have enough firepower to hold down the fort until back up arrives. Or you could go w/ a G-26 and carry two G-19 or G17 mags for backup. 40 and 45 of course is very good as well, so I don't believe there is a best, just one that you shoot the best and feel most comfortable with. I myself carry either a PX4 subcompact or compact in 9mm as I prefer a good DA/SA for CC as it would be highly unlikely they would go off w/o some sort of extreme user induced negligence.
    Or you could go with a 17, 19, or 26 and have a couple of the 33 round mags as backups

  4. #24
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    Personally I would stay away from Glock.There are many who love it,and many like me that don't.I don't like them for a few reasons but the biggest is it's a poor design that had brilliant marketing.Where's the safety?In the trigger!There's a phenomenon called Glock leg,people have booted one in their leg reholstering because something actuated the trigger and their finger was not near it,and you have to pull the trigger to take it apart to clean-I'll pass.I don't like the grip or the way they shoot,but I'll just stop there.

    Plastic is ideal for your needs but the M&P falls in the Glock catagory for me.The XD has a grip safety that cures the reholster problem but I personally don't like the feel.If you believe you get what you pay for,see if you can try an HK,I bucked the plastic craze for decades but when I broke down to buy one I went straight to the originator of plastic and poligonal rifling (something Glock tried to claim from a few reports).I like the USP platform because I'm a 1911 diehard.They're built like a freakin tank,are very accurate and you'd be hard pressed to ever have a malfunction,and the compact 9 or 45 in any model would serve you well.You also have the choice in triggers of SA,DA/SA,and in DA only you have 4 variations in compact and an extra in fullsize with the option of retaining the safety.

    The safety issue is bunk and a pure lack of the responsibility of knowing your gun and training (practice) with it.For a few decades I've shot and competed with different platforms and never missed a safety whether it's my 1911 or Beretta.We were shooting IPSC matches IDPA style before Wilson started IDPA,tactics were stressed but we weren't working from concealment.If you train right,operating a safety becomes automatic and thoughtless.

    Good luck and try to shoot any choices if you can before buying.
    I'm ready to hear this poor design deal. Besides I don't care what you are carrying. If anything hits that trigger and it is loading it will fire. A 1911 cocked and locked will fire if something hits that trigger. My glocks don't have light triggers. If someone shoots themsewlf in the leg I will put money on it that their finger hit the trigger. Or reholstered it in such a way the holster caught the trigger.

    What is the big deal about pulling a trigger to take it apart. Once you pull the slide back and you check that nothing is chambered in there what is the big deal? What do you do with any pistol that doesn't have a hammer or decocker when you go to unload it. Do you leave it cocked or pull the trigger and decock?

  5. #25
    Russ is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    I'm ready to hear this poor design deal. Besides I don't care what you are carrying. If anything hits that trigger and it is loading it will fire. A 1911 cocked and locked will fire if something hits that trigger. My glocks don't have light triggers. If someone shoots themsewlf in the leg I will put money on it that their finger hit the trigger. Or reholstered it in such a way the holster caught the trigger.

    What is the big deal about pulling a trigger to take it apart. Once you pull the slide back and you check that nothing is chambered in there what is the big deal? What do you do with any pistol that doesn't have a hammer or decocker when you go to unload it. Do you leave it cocked or pull the trigger and decock?
    Beretta copied the Glock trigger for the Nano. The trigger safety in the center of the trigger is to prevent the gun from firing by inertia if dropped on the ground. Beretta also included in the Nano a deactivator for those who do not want to pull the trigger to fieldstrip. Personally, I have never used it because I check the gun to make sure it is empty and I don't want to rely on a mechanical device (deactivator) to supersede a visual and finger inspection to ensure the gun is empty before I pull the trigger to fieldstrip.

    A good holster that covers the trigger will prevent the gun from discharging and there is no reason anyone should be re holstering outside your daily gun handling routine. My pocket gun stays in the holster and my hand; keys, coins etc stay out of the pocket period. Guns go off when you pull the trigger or an object other than your finger comes in contact with the trigger. Stick to a safe routine of handling a loaded and unloaded gun and be consistent.

    At the end of the day I carefully remove with gun still in holster from my pocket and place in my night stand gunvault still loaded and pointing toward exterior walls. In the morning I carefully remove gun still in holster from my gunvault and place in my pocket. (The gun never leaves the holster) Accidental discharges occur when you change up your routine or get careless while handing a loaded or unloaded gun. (Treat every gun as if it was loaded) If you can't focus don't handle a gun loaded or unloaded. If you are a multi task personality don't handle a loaded or unloaded gun until you can break yourself of that habit. I chewed my teenage daughters butt off once for bringing her cell phone to the gun range and texting. You can't do a million things and handle a gun.

    Russ

  6. #26
    rex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    I'm ready to hear this poor design deal. Besides I don't care what you are carrying. If anything hits that trigger and it is loading it will fire. A 1911 cocked and locked will fire if something hits that trigger. My glocks don't have light triggers. If someone shoots themsewlf in the leg I will put money on it that their finger hit the trigger. Or reholstered it in such a way the holster caught the trigger.

    What is the big deal about pulling a trigger to take it apart. Once you pull the slide back and you check that nothing is chambered in there what is the big deal? What do you do with any pistol that doesn't have a hammer or decocker when you go to unload it. Do you leave it cocked or pull the trigger and decock?
    I',m sorry,a cocked and locked 1911 will not go off if you hit the trigger,and it can't go off reholstering even with the safety off because of the grip safety.

    A search and investigation of Glock ADs (not NDs) will show up many with no finger involved.A collapsed holster,the Serpa with debris in it,etc.,etc.The OP does S&R which could very well pose circumstances that a reholster could do this.It would suck if you,re searching the woods and an animal threat stops,so you reholster and a stick in the thick brush you're in boots one down your leg.

    A LEO was exiting his car and smacked the grip of his Glock on the wheel,discharging the gun-I don't recall if he took it or missed his leg.An investigation came to the conclusion that the piece of frame that was breaking off had wedged in the right spot and when the grip hit and twisted the frame it tripped the striker.Don't know,don't care.Many agencies have left the Glock.A year or 2 ago a Canadian (I believe) department had problems and was printed in a mag or paper for that profession.Glock immediately threatened to sue them and it majically disappeared 2 days after I saw it-no trace of it searching everywhere,HMMM.

    The design is not great,the safety is in the trigger so why have it at all?There's a FP safety as far as I know so the the trigger safety is unnecessary if dropped,it's marketing hype for the ignorant.For decades Glock was known to have unsupported chambers and many KBs in some 9s and the 40s and it took them quite a while to remedy it because they said it wasn't their fault,it was user error.They would also KB when light connectors were used in some guns because the the slide and trigger bar rubbed the last of the pull and started pulling it out of lockup,unsupporting the case even more.I've been around since before Glock started and have seen documented cases of this and more for decades,sorry.If you think the gun is the greatest thing since sliced bread more power to you,I prefer better designs and quality.

    Now,alot of the ADs are really NDs that are trying to pass it off on the design and are proven so.Alot of reholsters are from a finger,the weapon wasn't clear before disassembly,etc.Happens all the time with any gun design.Things happen in situations where your main focus is on something else over reholstering and this is where the Glock fails,there is no possible way for my 1911,HK or Beretta 92 to go off reholstering so it's one less thing for me to worry about.

  7. #27
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Ok I will admit I had a complete and total brain and forgot about the 1911 grip safety. So remove all the guns with the grip safeties (still relying on a mechanical piece to insure your safety) any other gun not just Glock can AD.

    I was also sitting here thinking. If you are holstering the gun more than likely your hand is going to be on the grip. With your hand on the grip you are pressing the grip safety in and the AD could still happen. I did it with my XD all the time. Of course i know a guy who still has a gen 1 glock he has been carrying for God only knows how long, and several other people who carry a Glock on an everyday basis. No accidental disacharges around here.

  8. #28
    rex
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    Ha Ha on the brain,no worries.When I holster an auto my thumb is on the back of the slide by habit,so I'm off the GS completely because I desensitize mine some.The thumb safety locks the slide closed while on safe but it's just ingrained for me to do it.

    You are correct,any 'safe action' type gun can go off and has before,I'm not a fan at all of the design,that's why I like the USP so much.I have and have had and used slide safeties alot but that's a design that just irritates me and once it's holstered the safety comes off most of the time.I always draw as the safety is being taken off and never missed the safety,but if Murphy's Law is going to hit me it will be with that design.

    All ADs (not NDs) I've seen were either a colapsed holster or some type of debris was in the way.This showed up as a flaw of the Serpa holster after training on the ground.A few went off but most of the time it locked the gun in once it was seated in.Then there's the draw NDs.

    Anyway,all's good man,I just think the design is ill thought out and unnecessarily opens the door to a problem that has happened-not alot,but it has.I feel the design of the 1911 and USP safety is the best going so far,but diversity is what makes the world go round.

  9. #29
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Oh ok. I have never seen anyone holster by holding the slide. Usually the full shooting grip with the finger off the trigger. I found a picture the other day of a guy who shot himself in the leg, went through his jeans, grazed his leg, out of his jeans, through the car seat and through the frame. it showed a picture of the holster that had collapsed and pushed the trigger. Of course at that moment i can't blame the gun nor the "safe action". The hoslter was worn out and he said he noticed the crease in the holster. I am satisfied that is he had of replaced the holster then he would not have had any problems. Of course me being parnoid I always check the inside and outside of holsters I have used over long period of time.

    I still haven't found a gun that is 100% safe though.

  10. #30
    rex
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    I agree with that to a point,any gun can have an issue and AD or what we were talking about,but the majority of unsafe is the nut holding it.The only way I see a gun as totally safe is if it's broke and sits over the mantle or doubles as a paperweight.

    I think I know the collapsed holster deal you're talking about,there's been a few over the years so they all kind of jumble together in the head.

    Later man,we should let this rest since we're off topic.

  11. #31
    FearNot is offline Junior Member
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    Lumiis, if at all possible, find a gun store with its own range so you can try out a few different firearms. Talk to your co-workers, see what they're carrying. Get advice from your PD. Probably most important, don't lock in on getting a Glock, "just because". The firearm is not gonna do you much good if you flinch every time you pull the trigger, so maybe plan on starting out with a smaller caliber then moving up later when you feel comfortable and confident that you're ready. For the situation you described (in the brush, working) the holster is going to be very important keeping your firearm safe, so take your time and talk with anyone who will talk with you. In any event, once you decide, plan on shooting and shooting and shooting. Then plan on shooting some more.

  12. #32
    danite is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    Personally I would stay away from Glock.There are many who love it,and many like me that don't.I don't like them for a few reasons but the biggest is it's a poor design that had brilliant marketing.Where's the safety?In the trigger!There's a phenomenon called Glock leg,people have booted one in their leg reholstering because something actuated the trigger and their finger was not near it,and you have to pull the trigger to take it apart to clean-I'll pass.I don't like the grip or the way they shoot,but I'll just stop there.

    Plastic is ideal for your needs but the M&P falls in the Glock catagory for me.The XD has a grip safety that cures the reholster problem but I personally don't like the feel.If you believe you get what you pay for,see if you can try an HK,I bucked the plastic craze for decades but when I broke down to buy one I went straight to the originator of plastic and poligonal rifling (something Glock tried to claim from a few reports).I like the USP platform because I'm a 1911 diehard.They're built like a freakin tank,are very accurate and you'd be hard pressed to ever have a malfunction,and the compact 9 or 45 in any model would serve you well.You also have the choice in triggers of SA,DA/SA,and in DA only you have 4 variations in compact and an extra in fullsize with the option of retaining the safety.

    The safety issue is bunk and a pure lack of the responsibility of knowing your gun and training (practice) with it.For a few decades I've shot and competed with different platforms and never missed a safety whether it's my 1911 or Beretta.We were shooting IPSC matches IDPA style before Wilson started IDPA,tactics were stressed but we weren't working from concealment.If you train right,operating a safety becomes automatic and thoughtless.

    Good luck and try to shoot any choices if you can before buying.
    sir i think what your referring to is the infamous glock stripe that occurred when they first hit the market with a very heavy trigger pull,in most cases it happened in police departments and after many investigations was caused by poor modification of the trigger which over time has been cured by meeting the market driven lighter pull needs of the buying public except for the operator error cases that problem was solved i my love my colt commander but i can't bad mouth all the "tactical tupperware"in a arbitrary manner being as most are reliable and affordable and serve police and militaray world wide

  13. #33
    danite is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    Oh ok. I have never seen anyone holster by holding the slide. Usually the full shooting grip with the finger off the trigger. I found a picture the other day of a guy who shot himself in the leg, went through his jeans, grazed his leg, out of his jeans, through the car seat and through the frame. it showed a picture of the holster that had collapsed and pushed the trigger. Of course at that moment i can't blame the gun nor the "safe action". The hoslter was worn out and he said he noticed the crease in the holster. I am satisfied that is he had of replaced the holster then he would not have had any problems. Of course me being parnoid I always check the inside and outside of holsters I have used over long period of time.

    I still haven't found a gun that is 100% safe though.
    solution never holster your gun(boy!is my hand tired)

  14. #34
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    How about never drawing your gun from the holster?

  15. #35
    cluznar is offline Junior Member
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    Bersa Thunder .380
    Bersa BP9cc 9mm
    Ruger SR9c 9mm
    PX4 Storm compact 9mm

    Look at all of these

  16. #36
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    berettatoter is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiis View Post
    A little about why I'm buying my first gun, I work EMS and volunteer on a rural fire dept. and rescue squad SAR (search and rescue). Usually average around 10-15 land searches per year, but have never considered carrying a hand gun with me until a tornado ripped through my hometown - laurel co ky on Friday.

    While searching through the effected areas for survivors, I, and others have encountered armed looters, taking what they can, where they can. SAR ops had to be put on hold for hours at a time for city P.D. to take control of the situation.

    I've had CDW permit for about a year now, (fire dept paid for it, and requires it for SAR ops) but never bought a gun. I have my sights set on a glock, but what caliber for my needs? And also, is a glock safe for a concealed weapon? I'm constantly either on a 4 wheeler, using a chainsaw, climbing through brush, and wading / swimming through creeks and small rivers.

    Any input would greatly appreciated, thanks.
    Does your permit allow you to carry in the open? If so, I would go with the Glock in .40 or .45 myself. If I had to CC the gun, I would pick up something that has an external safety. This is just my personal opinion here.

  17. #37
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    g26 is the right gun

  18. #38
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    g26 is the right gun
    With all due respect, flat and seemingly-definitive statements like "G26 is the right gun" are bad advice.
    All you're doing is trying to force your own choice onto someone else's needs and requirements.
    This has more to do with validating your own choice than with trying to help someone else solve his problem.

    If you truly believe that your G26 will solve the problem at hand, please provide explanations and evidence which will help prove your bald assertion, and which will aid in convincing us of that truth.

  19. #39
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    If you spend the necessary time to practice, and follow the cardinal rules of gun handling, the Glock or any other quality striker fired handgun will not shoot anyone you don't intend to shoot...same as with a revolver. If a person is haphazard enough to accidentally fire a Glock, he would very likely be haphazard enough to screw up with anything else, too.

    In your described situation, I would probably choose a Glock 19. A properly loaded and aimed 9mm will accomplish as much as a .45 (my favorite handgun chambering) and will be lighter to carry ammo for. Glocks are utilitarian tools and don't really 'fit' anybody's hand, but they function very well in a dirty environment and hit where they are aimed. I've never seen a decent shooter pick up one and not be able to shoot it well, regardless of how much he professed not to like them (myself included, before I gave in and admitted the truth).

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