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  1. #1
    justlovetofish is offline Junior Member
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    First time family gun owner

    New to the forum, have some opinion questions. I've discussed with my wife about purchasing a self defense weapon and she agrees. so within our budget and caliber suited for her I've came up with these picks I think will be suitable for me and my wife, now Im not new to handguns, I have owned a Ruger P345 and loved it. Although I want to get the same one I think the caliber will be a little much for my wife. so here are my picks

    Ruger P95
    Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
    Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm/40 S&W

    Opinions please, I've seen a bunch of reviews and videos. Wanted to get a different opinion from the Forum

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  3. #2
    FNISHR is offline Member
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    Well, my five-foot zero, 95 pound secretary borrowed my Glock 17 to take her beginner's class with, and loved it. I really like the idea of starting the ladies off on a 9mm, but YMMV. Welcome to the forum.

  4. #3
    denner's Avatar
    denner is offline Senior Member
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    I dunno I think .40 is snappier than .45. Not much difference in recoil there. I'm guessing your wife has shot a .40 cal and has no issues with recoil. I've never owned or shot except a {sigma in 9mm} the above mentioned pistols but Taurus has a following of non believers, but I've seen good reviews on the Taurus. I shot a sigma back in the 90's and had a awful long trigger and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few.
    Last edited by denner; 02-08-2012 at 05:09 PM.

  5. #4
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    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    welcome from southern oregon

  6. #5
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    chessail77 is offline Senior Member
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    Welcome from snowy AZ.....S&W has a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service...wife and I took a two day defensive handgun course with two Sigmas....as above the 9mm will be best for wife as stated above less recoil...9mm has plenty of excellent home defense and self defense rounds and will dio the job just fine...JJ

  7. #6
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justlovetofish View Post
    New to the forum, have some opinion questions. I've discussed with my wife about purchasing a self defense weapon and she agrees. so within our budget and caliber suited for her I've came up with these picks I think will be suitable for me and my wife, now Im not new to handguns, I have owned a Ruger P345 and loved it. Although I want to get the same one I think the caliber will be a little much for my wife. so here are my picks

    Ruger P95
    Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
    Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm/40 S&W

    Opinions please, I've seen a bunch of reviews and videos. Wanted to get a different opinion from the Forum
    The P95 is a great gun. I have heard good things with the Sigma, but no personal experience. I personally have not had any luck with any taurus. I loved my snubnosed revolver but accuracy just wasn't there even at some close ranges so that pretty much turned me off to Taurus. I would say if it is something your wife will be shooting, saying she hasn't shot much, a 9mm would be a safe bet. My wife hasn't shot much and she shot my full sized M&P .40. It didn't bother her too bad. The compact did bother her alittle though. She opted for the M&P 9mm. Also remember that the bigger the gun the easier it i sto shoot. So if she isn't carrying it and it will just be for HD a full sized will be your best bet. Also something heavy will eat some of the recoil also.

    On a side note do what I did. Take your wife to the gun store(s) and let her feel of a few guns. Find something that she thinks feels good. Then is possible let her shoot it. My wife was dead set on a LC9 but after holding it side by side with the M&P she quickly changed her mind. Also are you looking to keep it in a certain price range? Ruger, Glock, S&W, Springfield, Walther are all great guns and not too bad priced you should be looking into. If you want to go up in price you can go with a Sig.

    Quote Originally Posted by denner View Post
    I dunno I think .40 is snappier than .45. Not much difference in recoil there. I'm guessing your wife has shot a .40 cal and has no issues with recoil. I've never owned or shot except a {sigma in 9mm} the above mentioned pistols but Taurus has a following of non believers, but I've seen good reviews on the Taurus. I shot a sigma back in the 90's and had a awful long trigger and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few.
    You forgot to put in your opinion. I shot one the other day and I can honestly say I wasn't impressed with the feel, the way it shot, the way the trigger felt, etc. No, I didn't have any hiccups. To me it was no where near above heads or tails over the ones you mentioned. I have owned, and still own the M&P's, and I would pick any of the ones you mentioned over the PX4. Like I said I, and for that matter my cousin and two of my buddies wasn't all that impressed with it. I am sticking with my M&Ps, my cousin traded the PX4 for another Glock, and my other friend is sticking with his H&K and Walthers.

    Now don't get me wrong I am not saying it was bad. Everyone likes what they like. but, it sounded at least to me as if you was telling the OP that it was heads and tails above those mentioned bar none no questions asked and that just isn't true. I would have no problems recommending on, but could I without any hesitation say it is better than any other quality handgun. No way in ****. Now is it better than Taurus , Kahr, Kel-Tec, Hi-Point, etc. I do believe so, but that is my opnion.

  8. #7
    justlovetofish is offline Junior Member
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    thanx everybody for your inputs and welcomes, I took her to the range for the first time and let her shoot a .40. watching her, i thought the recoil of the gun we rented was a little much for her, although after her first round she handled it pretty well. We tested a ruger .40, i believe to be one of the newer styles and i wasnt happy with it. it jammed on us like 6 times. i had the gun ranger supervisor test it, he loaded a full clip and it jammed on him. I personally like the ruger p345 style with the hammer. these other rugers without the hammer, to me, are copy cats of the glock. i still have research to do, and more time at the range with my wife.

  9. #8
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    Welcome to the forum! From your posts, I knew you preferred the hammer guns. However, the Ruger striker pistols in the SR series (SR9, SR9c, SR40 & SR40c) are excellent pistols, especially the compact ones which are great for concealed carry as well.

  10. #9
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    You forgot to put in your opinion. I shot one the other day and I can honestly say I wasn't impressed with the feel, the way it shot, the way the trigger felt, etc. No, I didn't have any hiccups. To me it was no where near above heads or tails over the ones you mentioned. I have owned, and still own the M&P's, and I would pick any of the ones you mentioned over the PX4. Like I said I, and for that matter my cousin and two of my buddies wasn't all that impressed with it. I am sticking with my M&Ps, my cousin traded the PX4 for another Glock, and my other friend is sticking with his H&K and Walthers.
    Well, I believe you misunderstood my post and of course you are entitled to your opinion, I own two PX4's, liked the first so much I got another and unlike what you and your friends and your cousin's subcribe to, I disagree. But to say a Ruger P95 is any way on the level of a Beretta PX4, I'd beg to differ and find amusing. I personally prefer the PX4 over Glock, M&P, SIG or H&K, and for the price it's a bargain. But to each their own. When I mentioned Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few I was giving the poster some better options, but said the pistols that "he" had mentioned the PX4 Storm in my opinion is head and shoulders above and like his day out on the range w/ the Ruger, I suspect he won't have any jams with a PX4. If the poster prefers a DA/SA pistol in his price range or perhaps a little more he'd be very well served to try a PX4. I'm very impressed with the way my PX4's shoot, the feel, the reliability and the trigger.
    Last edited by denner; 02-10-2012 at 03:30 AM.

  11. #10
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by denner View Post
    Well, you're entitled to your opinion, I own two PX4's and unlike what you and your friends and your cousin's subcribe to, I disagree. I prefer PX4 over all the pistols you and your friends and cousin susbcribe to, but that's your personnel opinion. But to say a Ruger P95 is any way on the level of a Beretta PX4, I'd beg to differ and find amusing. I personally prefer the PX4 over Glock, M&P, SIG or H&K, and for the price it's a bargain. But to each their own. When I mentioned Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few i was giving the poster some better options, but said the pistols that "he" had mentioned the PX4 Storm in my opinion is head and shoulders above and like his day out on the range w/ the Ruger, I suspect he won't have any jams with a PX4.
    Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. Glad you love yours. However, you said "heads and tails above" like it was fact. And it is NOT fact. That is your opinion. Which is totally fine for you to have. What is heads and tails better for you is not heads and tails better for someone else. Every gun we shot from the 3 Ruger P series (that I borrowed from my uncle to shoot); to all 3 of my M&P's; my buddies H&K P2000 and his Walthers; my cousins Glocks and his XD. We all thought they performed better than the PX4. Of course you know that is just 4 of us and OUR opinions. Would you like me to say my M&P was heads and tails better than the PX4, because to me with the same ammo it was, but, alas that is my opinion (as well as the others that were there that day). I will not pass that off as a fact I can't prove because not only is everyone's taste differrent but hand sizes also. I am not a huge fan of the Glocks. My cousin loves them. To him the Glock felt, and performed better. He was more than happy to swap the PX4 for another Glock.

    I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.

    You may have been giving him other ideas. Even after going back and re-reading it to me it sounded like you were saying the PX4 was head and should above the glocks, M&P's, xds, Walthers, etc. I won't say he shouldn't try one out. He may like it. I personally wasn't fond of it. Of course I have not found a Beretta yet that I was fond of. Now, I am not saying don't give your opinions. Just please don't try to say one is heads and tails better than the other unless you have some proof. Especially, when it comes to someone who is new to handguns, or just guns inparticular. Now, you say the PX4 is heads and tails better than Taurus, kel-Tec, Bersa, Hi-Point, Sccy, etc. then you have a valid point. . I also won't lie and say it isn't a good price, especially for that gun. However, prices differ in different places. I think the PX4 here is higher. I will have to look tomorrow when I go.

    As far as guns on the ranges. I have learned to take them with a grain of salt. I shot an M&P that jammed and misfed a bunch. Come to find out the guns hadn't been cleaned in 3 weeks due to all of their range guns getting replaced in the next few days. Guy said he rented it out about 8 times the day before. Range guns see alot of wear and aren't cleaned the best in the world. That plus depending on the ammo he was shooting could have been a big result.

  12. #11
    denner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Brevard13;252407]
    I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.QUOTE]

    Again, you misunderstood my post. I did not put the PX4 above all others. I put the PX4 above:

    Ruger P95
    Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
    Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm/40 S&W

    Although, you and your cousin and friends find the PX4 to your subjective dislike. The PX4 is much easier to brake down than the Ruger P series. The Px4 has changeable backstraps, is much more modular, unlike the P series. The P series are entry level $300 to $350 pistols in the genre of the S&W Sigma's and Taurus's Millennium Pro's, that are chunks and not on the level of the PX4's. All fact. To try to convince and disuade a new shooter at least from trying a PX4 in comparison to the above listed pistols serves as opined injustice. Now if justlovetofish try's one out and comes back with your observation of the PX4 I'll eat crow and agree with you.
    Last edited by denner; 02-10-2012 at 04:09 PM.

  13. #12
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    [QUOTE=denner;252479]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    I shot a Ruger P95 beside the PX4. I was more accurate with the Ruger. To me it felt better, definitely looked better. I have never had any problems with any of mine. One had well over 1500+ shots on it. Unfortunately, I had to sell them due to having to pay bills and stuff. To me it has been the closest thing to my M&P as far as feel and accuracy wise. Something which the PX4 didn't do when we shot it. My cousin had 2 jams with the PX4, but he was shooting reloads someone else did so in no way shape or form can I blame the gun. Like I said I would own one, seemed like it would be a decent gun. you can find it amusing that I put the Ruger over the PX4, that is fine by me, as I find it amusing you put the PX4 above all others.QUOTE]

    Again, you misunderstood my post. I did not put the PX4 above all others. I put the PX4 above:

    Ruger P95
    Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 S&W
    Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm/40 S&W

    Although, you and your cousin and friends find the PX4 to your subjective dislike. The PX4 is much easier to brake down than the Ruger P series. The Px4 has changeable backstraps, is much more modular, unlike the P series. The P series are entry level $300 to $350 pistols in the genre of the S&W Sigma's and Taurus's Millennium Pro's, that are chunks and not on the level of the PX4's. All fact. To try to convince and disuade a new shooter at least from trying a PX4 in comparison to the above listed pistols serves as opined injustice. Now if justlovetofish try's one out and comes back with your observation of the PX4 I'll eat crow and agree with you.
    I have now hung my head in shame. I said when you go back and read your post it sounds lie you are putting the px4 above the glock, m&p, xd, etc. Did I misread, possibly. Could you have typed that out differently yes. For the record ease define what you consider entry level. I do not put the Ruger on the same level as the Sigma and the Taurus. I don't even put the Taurus on any level of good named manufactureres like Sig, Beretta, S&W, Glock, Ruger, etc. if interchangeable backstraps is your definition ofsuperior then I am shocked. Backstraps are good if they feel good. The px4 didn't just like the glock gen 4 backstrap doesnt change the feel as much.

    Also, since you have facts that prove the px4's superiority over the Ruger and others please post this. Not your opinion, but facts like you say. So for me to say that in my opinion the Ruger is a better gun that is my opinion. My opinion because I have shot the Ruger P series, the Sigma, and the PX4. Let's go back to your first post #3 on the topic.

    I dunno I think .40 is snappier than .45. Not much difference in recoil there. I'm guessing your wife has shot a .40 cal and has no issues with recoil. I've never owned or shot except a {sigma in 9mm} the above mentioned pistols but Taurus has a following of non believers, but I've seen good reviews on the Taurus. I shot a sigma back in the 90's and had a awful long trigger and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few
    So you claim PX4's superiority yet you also say you don't know much about a Ruger. I am not saying he should or shouldn't get a px4. I hope if he tries one or gets one he likes it and doesn't regret his purchase. Unlike you I have never tried to pass any of my opinion as "fact" unlike you.

    Now I don't know if you are having a hard time understanding what I have typed or just not reading all the way through. Here is a quick summary.

    1. I asked you not to pass your opinion as fact, especially when someone new is just starting out. Giving your opinion as fine, but it is just that your opinion.
    2. From personal experience I said I felt the PX4 wasn't that great. Again I state this was my opinionalong with a couple of others.
    3. I never told him not to try or get a px4.
    4. Still waiting on your "facts" of superiority

    Was there anything else I forgot to mention.

  14. #13
    Grayhair's Avatar
    Grayhair is offline Junior Member
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    Simplicity is supreme.

  15. #14
    rex
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    I would suggest the 9 since you noticed the 40 was a bit much for her.I only own a Beretta 92 and did have a Smith 915 (5900 series) but I doubt the wife would find the 92 doable.

    I've heard great reviews so far on the Walther PPQ.I don't like plastis but broke down for an HK in 45 and will never sell it.If I ever bought another plastic gun it would be an HK or a PPQ if they turn out as good as they sound.I know money is always a concern but I think it's worth the extra money to start off with quality.With maybe the exception of the PPQ and FNH,no other plastic gun is in the same league as HK.A little investigation shows they take one hell of a beating and continue to run,and their failure rate is probably the lowest in the industry.They are also a hammer gun which I like,for some reason I do not like striker guns.The Colt 1911 is my go to gun always,so I laugh when people say the HK is so expensive but they spend that or more on a 1911.If an HK does seem viable and you can try one,a used 9 can be had very reasonable.HKPRO forum always has good deals on used ones because some of those guys rotate their collections often.Full factory warranty for any owner,straight from their mouth too.Not trying to pull an HK ad here but they are that good.They were never built for us like just about everyone else's products,all their guns are designed for hard use in LE and military life so we get to take advantage of that ruggedness.Glock only aspires to be so good.

  16. #15
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  17. #16
    SMann is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justlovetofish View Post
    self defense weapon
    One important question was never asked or answered. Will this self defense weapon only be used for protection while in the home or will you or your wife be carrying it? If it is a home defense weapon only, a handgun is a poor choice. Long guns are always better. Handguns are for backing up a long gun, or for when a long gun is not practical or possible like when carrying in public.

  18. #17
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Long guns are not always better. I know girls that can't hold up a shotgun much less shoot one. Then you run into the risk of someone who has a shotgun walking through there house poking the barrel out the door and a bad guy grabs the gun. I do however agree though that for the most part a shotgun is usually a lot better. But, definitely not always.

  19. #18
    SMann is offline Member
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    Are you kidding? Barrel and stock length can be made to fit the user. And if someone doesn't know how to use their weapon to properly clear their house, they need training, not a smaller gun. Your logic is weak.

  20. #19
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    How many normal gun owners can PROPERLY clear their house? You have gun owners that might put 20-50 rounds through a gun and say it is ok for self defense. You have people who buy the cheapest priced gun with the false confidence that it will shoot everytime. These are also the same people who may never clean their guns. Yet you expect them to be able to PROPERLY clear a house. Alot of places don't offer the training to properly clear a house, yet someone who won't take the time to practice is going to attend those training classes. Yet my logic is weak???

    With all that aside let's talk about long guns. Stocks. An adjustable stock can only shorten so much. I have held an adjustable stock that felt like it was too long when it was pushed all the way up. Now you are expecting some small framed woman to hold say a shotgun which (if like my wife) will find the gun heavy to begin with, then you are expecting that same person to be able to work the pump. Then you are running a 16" barrel. You are still going to be trying to clear your house with a 4ft gun. Any shorter you are getting into the SBR's and sawed off shotguns to which you will need a tax stamp to legally own. How many people are really going to go through the process of getting the paper work done, sent to the atf, wait for an answer, paying $200 just to get a stamp to get a shorter long gun. Not the normal gun owner. So you remove the stock and cut the barrel down on a shotgun the legal length without owning a tax stamp. At this point you just have a really big pistol with a great spread. Again, how is my logic weak?

    Now brace yourself. Go back and re-read my first post. Nevermind, I will quote it for you.

    I do however agree though that for the most part a shotgun is usually a lot better. But, definitely not always.
    See what I did there? "For the most part a shotgun". Not a rifle due to the possiblity of over penetration, I mean you did take that into consideration didn't you? Also see what else I did there? "Usually alot better". The stopping power on a shotgun is better than a handgun, and FOR THE MOST PART is better for home self defense. Depending on the person whose house it is, it may not actually be the best option. Yet, wait for it...my logic is weak

  21. #20
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    Welcome from MN....It appears by the choices you mentioned you are on a budget. My advice to everyone is get the best weapon you can afford. Being a copy of a Glock is not a bad thing. Liking a hammer is not a bad thing either, why do you like the hammer better?

    If I were someone considering what you are considering knowing what I know now, I would save for another 4 to 6 months and change my selection of guns to something along the lines of

    Glock 19
    S&W M&P 4.25
    CZ 75B
    Berreta 92FS

    They are a couple bucks more but well worth the extra $$$ You have already seen the trouble with the 345 which was the best gun in my opinion on your initial list. The Sigma is a gun some folks have and love I could not ever own one for reasons I will not go into but that are many. The Taurus well ....its a Taurus. The Taurus is my second choice on your initial list. On a list like yours Kel Tec PF9 is normally a serious consideration.

    This is your decision, don't go cheap just because you want a gun now. A gun that jams or stops working is not money well spent and a bad idea. Good luck with what ever you decide on and please always be safe

  22. #21
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    I like recoilguy's suggestions though I would rank them as the following

    M&P
    Ruger SR9
    Glock (as I have more experience with them though it would be pretty close to tied for a CZ)
    Sig (can't remember the model number right off the bat. Wasn't much more saw alot of great reviews)
    CZ
    Beretta

  23. #22
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    [QUOTE=Brevard13;252514]
    Quote Originally Posted by denner View Post

    I have now hung my head in shame. I said when you go back and read your post it sounds lie you are putting the px4 above the glock, m&p, xd, etc. Did I misread, possibly. Could you have typed that out differently yes. For the record ease define what you consider entry level. I do not put the Ruger on the same level as the Sigma and the Taurus. I don't even put the Taurus on any level of good named manufactureres like Sig, Beretta, S&W, Glock, Ruger, etc. if interchangeable backstraps is your definition ofsuperior then I am shocked. Backstraps are good if they feel good. The px4 didn't just like the glock gen 4 backstrap doesnt change the feel as much.

    Also, since you have facts that prove the px4's superiority over the Ruger and others please post this. Not your opinion, but facts like you say. So for me to say that in my opinion the Ruger is a better gun that is my opinion. My opinion because I have shot the Ruger P series, the Sigma, and the PX4. Let's go back to your first post #3 on the topic.



    So you claim PX4's superiority yet you also say you don't know much about a Ruger. I am not saying he should or shouldn't get a px4. I hope if he tries one or gets one he likes it and doesn't regret his purchase. Unlike you I have never tried to pass any of my opinion as "fact" unlike you.

    Now I don't know if you are having a hard time understanding what I have typed or just not reading all the way through. Here is a quick summary.

    1. I asked you not to pass your opinion as fact, especially when someone new is just starting out. Giving your opinion as fine, but it is just that your opinion.
    2. From personal experience I said I felt the PX4 wasn't that great. Again I state this was my opinionalong with a couple of others.
    3. I never told him not to try or get a px4.
    4. Still waiting on your "facts" of superiority

    Was there anything else I forgot to mention.
    I think when you state myself, my friends and my cousin are not impressed with the PX4, you would make one believe that no one would be impressed with a PX4? I may be reading that wrong, but, when I get the perception that you come across as it's just not me, but my friends, and even my own cousin, so something has to be wrong with the PX4, right? I do believe you think of your opinion highly, so, I would interpret it as, if you don't believe me, I have friends and even my cousin to back up my opinion. Other than the subjective fit and feel of a pistol. Fact one, and one alone may be able to suffice is that the P series has a much more cumbersome takedown than a PX4, agree or disagree? Have you ever taken down a PX4? Can you change out the entire trigger mechanism in the P series in less than 15 minutes? Is there an option to modify the grip size with the P series? And comparing the Gen 4 glock grips in that department is wrong. That is all fact and is the reason the PX4 is superior over the P series. Now subjective opinions, the way the pistol feels and shoots for you, or maybe a first starter pistol which has grown into a admiration is fine, but, frankly, I have a much different take on the PX4 than you, your friends, and yes, even your cousin.

  24. #23
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    [QUOTE=denner;253034]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post

    I think when you state myself, my friends and my cousin are not impressed with the PX4, you would make one believe that no one would be impressed with a PX4? I may be reading that wrong, but, when I get the perception that you come across as it's just not me, but my friends, and even my own cousin, so something has to be wrong with the PX4, right? I do believe you think of your opinion highly, so, I would interpret it as, if you don't believe me, I have friends and even my cousin to back up my opinion. Other than the subjective fit and feel of a pistol. Fact one, and one alone may be able to suffice is that the P series has a much more cumbersome takedown than a PX4, agree or disagree? Have you ever taken down a PX4? Can you change out the entire trigger mechanism in the P series in less than 15 minutes? Is there an option to modify the grip size with the P series? And comparing the Gen 4 glock grips in that department is wrong. That is all fact and is the reason the PX4 is superior over the P series. Now subjective opinions, the way the pistol feels and shoots for you, or maybe a first starter pistol which has grown into a admiration is fine, but, frankly, I have a much different take on the PX4 than you, your friends, and yes, even your cousin.
    You my friend need to go back and re-read post #12. Wait I will quote it for you so you don't have to scroll up.

    1. I asked you not to pass your opinion as fact, especially when someone new is just starting out. Giving your opinion as fine, but it is just that your opinion.
    2. From personal experience I said I felt the PX4 wasn't that great. Again I state this was my opinion along with a couple of others.
    3. I never told him not to try or get a px4.
    4. Still waiting on your "facts" of superiority
    So at what point did I say no one would be impressed with it. Please show me. You said it was heads and tails above the others. I showed you 4 people who disagreed (based on THEIR OPINION)with YOUR OPINION. At no point did I ever claim what I said to be fact.

    You claim I think highly of my opinion. That is rich coming from a guy who just tried to pass his opinion with fact. yet, we have not seen one fact yet. You keep saying how it is so much superior than the Ruger P series yet in your 2nd post you said and I will quote AGAIN
    and I don't know much about the Ruger. CDNN has Beretta PX4 Storms for a very low price of 439.00 and is heads and tails above all the pistols you have mentioned.Glocks, S&W M&P, Ruger SR9C, Walther PPQ, to name a few
    . Now, who is thinking highly of THEIR OPINION? You just said you don't know much about the Ruger, yet, you can pass off the PX4 superiority as fact? All I did was said side by side I preferred and shot the Ruger alot better. That is my opinion, my experience, and the fact I have shot both guns. And I guess you could take what you typed into a fact.
    if you don't believe me, I have friends and even my cousin to back up my opinion
    , but to make it more true If you don't believe me on my OPINION, I have friends and a cousin who can back up my opinion with theirs. And also debunk your "fact" about the PX4 being heads over tails better.

    1. Is the Ruger cubersome to take down? Guess it depends on who you are. I don't have any problems breaking it down. Yes, I have taken a PX4 apart to clean. I cleaned my cousin's PX4 before he traded it off. Trigger mechanism in under 15 mins? I don't see why not. you can completely disassemble one in under 7 mins and that is saying you have some problems with the slide lever and some of the pins.

    Ruger Completely Disassembly

    Which just for comparison looked easier than this

    PX4 disassembly

    Now for just field stripping I will agree the Ruger is harder to just do a simple field strip. Doesn't mean that it is less superior.

    2. Ruger P series grip. Can you change the size. Yes. You can swap the grips out and get some that are a tad thinner or even add a hogue grip with palm swells. What is your point? Superior huh? Can you have custom engraved grips with the PX4? How about wood grips? How about different colored wood grips? How about hogue grips on the PX4? Can you add palm swells to a PX4 if you have bigger hands and want more of a grip? You can add something like gun tape to give it some extra grip, you can add a pachmayr. Other than that on the PX4 you are changing backstraps, which like I said is the same as swapping a back strap on a Glock Gen 4. How is it wrong? If it is different please tell me how besides the feel.

    All this and I have really yet to see how the PX4 is superior. I'm really curious how you can sit there and say that the PX4 is more superior to a gun in which you claim you don't really know anything about. Also you have not specified which PX4 you are talking about. My cousin bought the PX4 type D which was DAO no decocker no safety. you also have the type C which is SAO no decocker no safety. The type F SA/DA decocker and manual safety (closest to the Ruger P series), and the Type G which is SA/DA decocker no manual safety. And we won't even get into the PX4SD much less the full sized, compact, and subcompact models.

    Now just something for you to read ( I don't know how accurate it is or what all they did my friend sent me the link in a email). Apparently, it is a accumulated total.

    Beretta Px4 Storm Pistol vs Ruger P95 Series Pistol | Compare Pistols And Revolvers on Pikimal

    Now read this part careful please. These are MY OPINIONS

    PX4 is better in the following
    -ease of field stripping
    -lighter weight
    -slightly smaller which makes for easier carrying of IWB

    Ruger is better in the following
    -more sturdy feeling
    -for me it was more accurate
    -better feel while being shot
    -felt less recoil

    Like I have said all this is my opinion and I have passed none of this is fact, however, you want to keep arguing just because I called you out on your heads over tails comment. You also claimed there was "facts" that the PX4 was superior, but based off what you typed you really have no experience with the Ruger. Not only that you have yet to put up any sort of proof and then said I think too highly of my opinion.

    I don't know whatelse I need to do. I already said it is up to him to try the PX4 and see for himself. I really have nothing that bad to say about the gun except I didn't care for how it felt and shot. It isn't the first gun that I haven't felt and shot I didn't like. It isn't the worst gun I have held or shot. neither is it the best. It is a good gun and I would have no problems owning one to shoot with ever so often. I would recommend it if someone said hey I really like this what are your thoughts.

    now since I have answered your questions why don't you answer mine.

    1. How much experience do you have with the Ruger P series?
    2. How many times have you shot that Ruger?
    3. Which Ruger was it and what caliber?
    4. What do you find so much more sruperior about the Px4 over Ruger
    5. Where is your proof of superiority? I am still waiting on those facts you were talking about earlier.

    If you want another of my opinions I would suggest you just quit while you are behind.

  25. #24
    SMann is offline Member
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    5.56 rounds penetrate less layers of dry wall than 12 ga buckshot and 9mm rounds. Saying an incompetant person is better off with a handgun is rediculous. Your logic is weak and your facts are not accurate.

  26. #25
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    The first gun my wife shot was a Beretta 92...and for the first time, she did extremely well.........as long as they can get some shooting time in, I really wouldn't worry about over penetration, under penetration, over thinking, under thinking.....just practice and shoot........you can read good and bad stories about all guns.....and for the most part, they all have had their problems at one time or another......fit, feel, function..period...

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