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  1. #21
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    This is strictly my opinion, and has worked in many years of firearms training, and for men and ladies alike. Buy a handgun just like you would buy a pair of shoes. If Ol' Joe over here says he likes Charlie China tennis shoes, and you're looking for a new pair of shoes, do you run out and buy Joe's pick, just because HE likes 'em? Probably not. If a new shooter is asking what to buy for a carry gun, it doesn't matter what works for me, or anyone else. I suggest telling that new shooter to go to many gun shops, and/or gun shows, and handle all the guns they can get hold of. Just like they would try on shoes. Before long they'll be able to make a list of guns that feel ok, pretty good, real good, and "that really feels great in my hands". The last two are the ones to pursue, and here's why I say that....
    If a given handgun doesn't feel "right" in your hands, you'll not shoot it enough to become proficient with it, because it's not comfortable, and you won't like shooting it. Just like you rarely wear shoes that are UNcomfortable. If you're not gonna become proficient with it, save your money, and buy a ball bat to carry. With proper training, and fundamentals, he/she can learn to shoot almost any handgun, or any caliber. Very few folks can re-train their hands to make just any handgun feel comfortable. The last suggestion...get some training......proper shooting technques, practiced slowly, but proficiently, will breed speed. Do it slowly, and do it the right way, every time.......If you practice speed first, and introduce less efficient techniques into your training, you'll have to do it all over again to get it right.

    By the way..... anyone who introduces a new shooter to our pastime by having them start with a large-caliber handgun, makes a very poor decision. Yes, some folks do ok starting out with large calibers, but the vast majority will not continue to shoot if their very 1st experience is with .50 S&W. Start with a .22 caliber something, and as your technique/accuracy improves, work up from there. Caliber doesn't count until after you can hit your target.

    There always will be a trade-off..... light weight, more recoil...... shorter barrel, more recoil... just sayin....

    Again, just my ramblings.... but they work for me...

    Shoot Safely....

  2. #22
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    This is strictly my opinion, and has worked in many years of firearms training, and for men and ladies alike. Buy a handgun just like you would buy a pair of shoes. If Ol' Joe over here says he likes Charlie China tennis shoes, and you're looking for a new pair of shoes, do you run out and buy Joe's pick, just because HE likes 'em? Probably not. If a new shooter is asking what to buy for a carry gun, it doesn't matter what works for me, or anyone else. I suggest telling that new shooter to go to many gun shops, and/or gun shows, and handle all the guns they can get hold of. Just like they would try on shoes. Before long they'll be able to make a list of guns that feel ok, pretty good, real good, and "that really feels great in my hands". The last two are the ones to pursue, and here's why I say that....
    If a given handgun doesn't feel "right" in your hands, you'll not shoot it enough to become proficient with it, because it's not comfortable, and you won't like shooting it. Just like you rarely wear shoes that are UNcomfortable. If you're not gonna become proficient with it, save your money, and buy a ball bat to carry. With proper training, and fundamentals, he/she can learn to shoot almost any handgun, or any caliber. Very few folks can re-train their hands to make just any handgun feel comfortable. The last suggestion...get some training......proper shooting technques, practiced slowly, but proficiently, will breed speed. Do it slowly, and do it the right way, every time.......If you practice speed first, and introduce less efficient techniques into your training, you'll have to do it all over again to get it right.

    By the way..... anyone who introduces a new shooter to our pastime by having them start with a large-caliber handgun, makes a very poor decision. Yes, some folks do ok starting out with large calibers, but the vast majority will not continue to shoot if their very 1st experience is with .50 S&W. Start with a .22 caliber something, and as your technique/accuracy improves, work up from there. Caliber doesn't count until after you can hit your target.

    There always will be a trade-off..... light weight, more recoil...... shorter barrel, more recoil... just sayin....

    Again, just my ramblings.... but they work for me...

    Shoot Safely....
    OK folk, here goes. First off thanks for this post. I must agree that I must be accurate first before I worry about the power of a bullet. Now I did go and do some shooting and here is what happened. :

    Gunes used:
    Taurus 85 .38 (cousins gun)
    Springfield XD 4inch Darell .45acp
    Springfield 1911 fullsize .45acp
    Larinson .380 (step dad's gun)

    I shot at 7 yards with a fullsize torso target at an indoor range. The Larinson .380 was a pure piece of junk. It jamed with range rounds and just did not feel good in my hands at all. I did not like it. The Taurus 85 was ok. I like being able to pull back the hammer and get a short trigger pull that way while shooting in a range....I know when the gun is going to fire. However I could not hit the broad side of a barn with it. I even shot off one of the clamps that held the target in place. The gun also had a sharp/snappy kick that I was not comfortable with. Next we have the XD. Nice gun and I liked it overall. However it is heavy to me and I did not like the long trigger pull all the time. I never knew when the gun was going to fire, so at times I jerked the gun and was not smooth with it. Now we come to the fullsize 1911. I love that gun. It is nice to look at.....however looks do not really matter when you get down to it. It felt nice in my hand. I love the short trigger pull as well. I was able to keep a 7 round clip in the chest area @ 7 yards with that gun in .45acp range rounds. My only issue with the 1911 was its size and weight. It is way to big to carry concealed. My cousin carrys it open on under a shirt on a belt holster. I did not mind the kick of the 1911 at all and was not jerking the gun when it fired. I put 50 rounds through the 1911 and my hand was not sore after doing so.

  3. #23
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
    OK folk, here goes. First off thanks for this post. I must agree that I must be accurate first before I worry about the power of a bullet. Now I did go and do some shooting and here is what happened. :

    Gunes used:
    Taurus 85 .38 (cousins gun)
    Springfield XD 4inch Darell .45acp
    Springfield 1911 fullsize .45acp
    Larinson .380 (step dad's gun)

    I shot at 7 yards with a fullsize torso target at an indoor range. The Larinson .380 was a pure piece of junk. It jamed with range rounds and just did not feel good in my hands at all. I did not like it. The Taurus 85 was ok. I like being able to pull back the hammer and get a short trigger pull that way while shooting in a range....I know when the gun is going to fire. However I could not hit the broad side of a barn with it. I even shot off one of the clamps that held the target in place. The gun also had a sharp/snappy kick that I was not comfortable with. Next we have the XD. Nice gun and I liked it overall. However it is heavy to me and I did not like the long trigger pull all the time. I never knew when the gun was going to fire, so at times I jerked the gun and was not smooth with it. Now we come to the fullsize 1911. I love that gun. It is nice to look at.....however looks do not really matter when you get down to it. It felt nice in my hand. I love the short trigger pull as well. I was able to keep a 7 round clip in the chest area @ 7 yards with that gun in .45acp range rounds. My only issue with the 1911 was its size and weight. It is way to big to carry concealed. My cousin carrys it open on under a shirt on a belt holster. I did not mind the kick of the 1911 at all and was not jerking the gun when it fired. I put 50 rounds through the 1911 and my hand was not sore after doing so.
    The first thing you should consider is to what primary purposes you plan to put the gun. It is for target shooting, self-defense, or both? I am going to assume both for the sake of what follows. Next thing to consider is your budget. You should have some idea of the maximum you are willing to spend before you get to the point of developing a list. Then the last thing is how you plan to carry the gun: openly, concealed, or deep concealment. I am going to assume concealed.

    There is a huge array of handguns at your selection disposal and one of the best ways to begin developing a list is to visit a major gun show where you can see and handle a variety of pistols and revolvers. You want to see what feels comfortable and natural in your hand, what points naturally, and what allows you to obtain a sight picture quickly. Try to avoid going cheap but do remember that there are a lot of high quality handguns at reasonable prices. Glock, Smith and Wesson (M&P), Springfield Armory XD series, Ruger, Beretta, Taurus.... these are just a few of those out there from which to choose.

    Caliber. If the gun is to be used for defensive work, you'd be best not to go less that a 9mm in a pistol or a .38 Special in a revolver. The gun websites are raft with opinions and arguments about which caliber is best and what does and does not work well. Try to visit a range where you can rent different guns and try them out, or if you have friends who have a good selection, see it they will take you along with them shooting. The gun with which you can consistently and confidently deliver rounds to target is better than the one with which you can't seem to even reliably hit the paper.

    And what are the basic fundamentals of a defensive sidearm? In the simplest of terms, they follow:

    o Reliability. The gun must go bang when it is suppose to. If it is unreliable the next two factors are moot.
    o Practical accuracy. This is the ability of the gun and shooter combination to consistently hit the target.
    o Power. The cartridge/caliber must be able to deliver sufficient energy and penetration to incapacitate an assailant as quickly as possible.

    Good luck in your search.

  4. #24
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    :)

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    The first thing you should consider is to what primary purposes you plan to put the gun. It is for target shooting, self-defense, or both? I am going to assume both for the sake of what follows. Next thing to consider is your budget. You should have some idea of the maximum you are willing to spend before you get to the point of developing a list. Then the last thing is how you plan to carry the gun: openly, concealed, or deep concealment. I am going to assume concealed.

    There is a huge array of handguns at your selection disposal and one of the best ways to begin developing a list is to visit a major gun show where you can see and handle a variety of pistols and revolvers. You want to see what feels comfortable and natural in your hand, what points naturally, and what allows you to obtain a sight picture quickly. Try to avoid going cheap but do remember that there are a lot of high quality handguns at reasonable prices. Glock, Smith and Wesson (M&P), Springfield Armory XD series, Ruger, Beretta, Taurus.... these are just a few of those out there from which to choose.

    Caliber. If the gun is to be used for defensive work, you'd be best not to go less that a 9mm in a pistol or a .38 Special in a revolver. The gun websites are raft with opinions and arguments about which caliber is best and what does and does not work well. Try to visit a range where you can rent different guns and try them out, or if you have friends who have a good selection, see it they will take you along with them shooting. The gun with which you can consistently and confidently deliver rounds to target is better than the one with which you can't seem to even reliably hit the paper.

    And what are the basic fundamentals of a defensive sidearm? In the simplest of terms, they follow:

    o Reliability. The gun must go bang when it is suppose to. If it is unreliable the next two factors are moot.
    o Practical accuracy. This is the ability of the gun and shooter combination to consistently hit the target.
    o Power. The cartridge/caliber must be able to deliver sufficient energy and penetration to incapacitate an assailant as quickly as possible.

    Good luck in your search.
    Thank you very much for the help. I did like shooting the Springfield XD. I am planning on going to the local gunshow when it comes to the area. From what I have tried so far, the most comfy gun to hold and the gun that just feels right in my hand is the 1911. Trouble is that gun is very large and would be hard to conceal.

  5. #25
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    May I ask in which part of Virginia do you reside?

  6. #26
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    May I ask in which part of Virginia do you reside?
    I am in Virginia Beach, VA.

  7. #27
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
    I am in Virginia Beach, VA.
    I am outside of Manassas in the western fringe of Prince William County which is roughly 35-40 miles from Washington, DC. You will find a bunch of good people down in the Tidewater area who are more than willing to help you along in a number of ways. Consider perusing opencarry.org, not so much because it is an open carry supportive website but more because you will find out a LOT about carrying in our commonwealth. The Virginia forum on that site is very active, you'll see me there as well, and you will learn a great deal. But it is devoted to open carry so keep that in mind.

    I would be happy to offer any information I can so please feel free to ask. And I'll attempt to be objective so as not to introduce any preferences or biases where they are not welcome.... unless you request such. You will find that Virginia is the most lenient and gun-friendly state in the South and the carrying of a firearm is rarely a cause for concern, be it open or concealed. So ask away.

  8. #28
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
    ...Now we come to the fullsize 1911...My only issue with the 1911 was its size and weight...
    It was exactly the size and weight of this pistol that helped you to have as much success with it as you did.

    The full-size, full-weight 1911 is the perfect beginner's gun: Its cartridge recoils "softly," rather than sharply, and the pistol's weight and length tame that already soft recoil down to pretty comfortable proportions. Further, as you noted, its trigger is an easy one on which to learn control. Further yet, its safety lever forces you to pay attention to preparing to fire, and thereby helps to enforce the rules of gun safety.

    About carrying its weight and size, a man wiser than I once said, "Your pistol should be comforting, not comfortable."

  9. #29
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    It was exactly the size and weight of this pistol that helped you to have as much success with it as you did.

    The full-size, full-weight 1911 is the perfect beginner's gun: Its cartridge recoils "softly," rather than sharply, and the pistol's weight and length tame that already soft recoil down to pretty comfortable proportions. Further, as you noted, its trigger is an easy one on which to learn control. Further yet, its safety lever forces you to pay attention to preparing to fire, and thereby helps to enforce the rules of gun safety.

    About carrying its weight and size, a man wiser than I once said, "Your pistol should be comforting, not comfortable."
    I did not think of things from your point of view. I see what you are saying about the gun. I like the fact that gun gun will not fire unless you are holding it correctly and have your palm on the grip safety. The hammer must be back for it to fire, thus you have a visual reminder as well. I like that about the gun. I like the clip release being where it is and not say at the bottom of the gun near the end of the grip. Maybe I am looking at things wrong in that carrying a gun will not always be a comfy thing to do.....such as a pocket knife that you may forget you have on you because it disappears. I feel comfortable using and fieldstripping a 1911 as well.

  10. #30
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
    ...I like the clip release...[emphasis added]
    Actually, it's a magazine.

    Here's the distinction: You use clips, which one discards after use, to load magazines, which are either removable but necessary, or permanently attached.

    (There are exceptions. For instance, the US M1 Garand rifle requires its user to load "en-bloc" clips, without which the gun is merely a single-shot device, into its magazine. Another is the Mannlicher clip, seen mostly in Austrian and some Italian rifles, which is loaded, like the M1's, into the gun's magazine, cartridges and all.)


    When I was just about to buy my first competition pistol, my (now ex-) wife and I had also been looking at the complex-puzzle sculptures of Miguel Berrocal. After I showed her how the M1911 can be taken completely to pieces without the use of any tools except its own parts, her response was, "It's just like a Berrocal sculpture. Get the pistol instead, because it's more useful than a sculpture would be."

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Actually, it's a magazine.

    Here's the distinction: You use clips, which one discards after use, to load magazines, which are either removable but necessary, or permanently attached.

    (There are exceptions. For instance, the US M1 Garand rifle requires its user to load "en-bloc" clips, without which the gun is merely a single-shot device, into its magazine. Another is the Mannlicher clip, seen mostly in Austrian and some Italian rifles, which is loaded, like the M1's, into the gun's magazine, cartridges and all.)
    my m1 carbine and my m98 mauser both use stripper clips to load the magazines.

  12. #32
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Yes, Ted, exactly.
    (I thought I'd said that. Did I leave something out?)

  13. #33
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the correction. Newbie mistake I think, doh.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Yes, Ted, exactly.
    (I thought I'd said that. Did I leave something out?)
    i liked your first response better..... and i was just backing your play steve, you did it all correctly


  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    i liked your first response better..... and i was just backing your play steve, you did it all correctly

    Thank you.

    (I thought that my first response could've been misinterpreted as being a little snide or snarky, so I changed it.)

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Thank you.

    (I thought that my first response could've been misinterpreted as being a little snide or snarky, so I changed it.)
    i can take snide and snarky, my skin is thicker than the average bears..... but never know who else might make that leap....

  17. #37
    s1mp13m4n is offline Junior Member
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    Hello again everyone. I have another newbie question. I am curious about something and the brand name seems controversial. Is Hi-Point a quality beginners gun at not much money or is it a pure POS? I mean a .45acp gun for under $200? That seems too good to be true. I like the idea of being made in the USA, but what are they doing to make the guns at such a low price?
    I saw a goofy video on FaceTube about a torture test with the brand, but it was hardly a professional review. I mean doing things properly at a range, using gun control, proper grip, etc.....would that not solve the issue of jamming due to a limp wristed grasp of the gun when shooting it? I do not really care about how the gun looks, I want a simple tool that goes bang when you practice at the range and goes bang should you ever have to protect your life with it. Thanks for the help.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
    Hello again everyone. I have another newbie question. I am curious about something and the brand name seems controversial. Is Hi-Point a quality beginners gun at not much money or is it a pure POS? I mean a .45acp gun for under $200? That seems too good to be true. I like the idea of being made in the USA, but what are they doing to make the guns at such a low price?
    I saw a goofy video on FaceTube about a torture test with the brand, but it was hardly a professional review. I mean doing things properly at a range, using gun control, proper grip, etc.....would that not solve the issue of jamming due to a limp wristed grasp of the gun when shooting it? I do not really care about how the gun looks, I want a simple tool that goes bang when you practice at the range and goes bang should you ever have to protect your life with it. Thanks for the help.
    buy a used .38 revolver

  19. #39
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    Hi Points are cheap for a very good reason. They are CHEAP! If you want a cheap gun and all you really want is to get by cheap and own a gun. Hi Point baby.
    If you think a 1911 is heavy and big, you aint seen nothing like the Hi Point. Although more money, at least 1911's are made well. Almost anyone can justify the 179 buck price tag and then call others gun snobs ect if they don't like the Hi Point. It is a very viable and often repeated play. Some Hi Points work, some of them even work twice. There are those who have them and are happy with them. I assume they are not hard to please or have never shot a good smooth weapon. Or just don't like to spend money and then feel the need to justify that fact.

    RCG

  20. #40
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    Try a shooters rental place if you have one where you are. Rent a few different calibers and makes and models. Get a feel for the bang that works for you then narrow it down. Truth is, as you progress, you will own a variety. I've traded, sold and changed so many times and many of those I let go I later regretted losing. But every one of them was a quality learning experience.

    ...And there's soooooo many more I want...

    PS- I second the used .38. Simple, powerful (with +P duty loads flat out deadly) and super easy to get started on. Then you can branch out and get CRAZY man! It's an expensive habit, er, I mean hobby.

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