For what it's worth...

The only safety device that really works is the one inside your head, between your ears.

Glocks, like all guns, are only as safe as the users thereof.
Glocks have sufficient built-in safety devices, as long as the one in your head (between your ears) remains fully functional.

Learn the gun-safety rules, and follow them.

With the Glocks or any pistol get a quality holster that covers the trigger and holds the pistol securely and you'll be okay. Then like Steve said train to be proficient. You've got a good list of pistols to try. If you have smaller hands the CZs may be best to concentrate on. Have fun.

Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

For what it's worth...

The only safety device that really works is the one inside your head, between your ears.

Glocks, like all guns, are only as safe as the users thereof.
Glocks have sufficient built-in safety devices, as long as the one in your head (between your ears) remains fully functional.

Learn the gun-safety rules, and follow them.

in
i was talking to a buddy of mine and he made the same point, and it's something i've been considering all along. i mean, i'm usually pretty cautious about guns in general. i've learned a lot of safety rules since i've been around people that own guns and in the shops. i don't even plan on FIRING whatever pistol i purchase until i have the safety procedures down. just to be sure i know.

Originally Posted by rgrundy

With the Glocks or any pistol get a quality holster that covers the trigger and holds the pistol securely and you'll be okay. Then like Steve said train to be proficient. You've got a good list of pistols to try. If you have smaller hands the CZs may be best to concentrate on. Have fun.

yeah i noticed there are some holsters that cover the trigger. just gives me piece of mind knowing that if the trigger is covered up, even if i make a clumsy move if i'm in the woods or something, it shouldn't go off.

i've been checking out holsters, and some of them i saw, just look like they wouldn't be very fast if i needed to use it in a life-or-death situation. like the ones that go down inside your pants? the ones on the waistline look like they would be okay, but some of those, just don't look practical.

Why is it the exact same, 'safety device' that's between some Glockophile's ears is so emphatically trusted to run a Glock pistol, safely and well, while that exact same, 'safety device' can't save the same Glockophile from an occasional auto accident or traffic citation? (Must be magic, huh!)

Me? I carry a Glock pistol everyday. I've, also, got over 50 years' experience with guns that have taught me, when it comes to handling firearms, there is no such thing as 100% user safety; and it, sure as Hell, ain't got nothing to do with what's between somebody's ears. That malarkey sounds great on the internet; but, trust me, real life is an entirely different story.

This being said: You're all over the place with your pistol choices, Mr. Rabbit. I'll only offer this: If you do go the Glock route, my personal suggestion would be for you to choose a third generation pistol. It should be a STANDARD SIZE frame and 9 x 19mm chambering.

Yes, I understand you want to carry your new pistol someday; however, you're going to need to learn how to shoot it, first, BEFORE you start carrying. The mostly compact pistols you're presently considering are just going to make it that much tougher for you to avoid falling into common pistol shooting errors and learn how to use a handgun skillfully and well.

In fact, if I were starting out pistol shooting all over again, today, one of the very first things I'd do is join an IDPA club. I don't know you; I've never seen you shoot; but many IDPA pistoleros do so much better using pistols with full-size frames. You know, like a G-17, Springfield XD(m) 4.5, or CZ 75-B.

Originally Posted by Glock Doctor

...I've, also, got over 50 years' experience with guns that have taught me, when it comes to handling firearms, there is no such thing as 100% user safety; and it, sure as Hell, ain't got nothing to do with what's between somebody's ears. That malarkey sounds great on the internet; but, trust me, real life is an entirely different story...[emphasis added]

Pretty cute: You set up a "straw man," and then you knock him down. Nobody, least of all me, said anything about "100% user safety."
So tell me, oh Obiwan, if it "ain't got nothing to do with what's between somebody's ears," upon what does real gun safety rely? Mechanisms? Key locks?

I strongly suggest to you that describing someone else's opinions or advice as "malarkey" does nothing for your credibility, and even less for reasoned discourse and the exchange of ideas.

Oh, and, by the way, I have more than 65 years of shooting experience. Does that automatically make me smarter than you, or give my advice and opinions greater weight than yours?

Please, no rock throwing.................Personally, I can't stand Glock's........they look like a block of wood, uninteresting, downright ugly. I agree with Glockdoctor, you are all over the place in your pistol choices. I also agree, that you should shoot a bunch of different handguns, before you make a choice. Many people buy a handgun, and shortly after, don't really like it as much as they thought they did...looks can be deceiving......handguns are like a fine wine...you have to try a bunch of them, before you pick the one that you like best. For shooting, I prefer my Beretta 96.( I noticed Beretta wasn't on yor list) It's a full frame gun, perfect weight for me, reliable, love the way it fits my hand, love the way it shoots. For CCW qualification, I used my Beretta 84fs. Smaller frame, nice trigger, smaller caliber, super accurate. For carry, I use a S&W Bodyguard. Fits in my front pocket in a Desantis holster, very comfortable. I traded a Walther P99 for the Bodyguard. The Walther was a perfect example of a gun that I thought I would like, but I didn't shoot it, before I purchased it. Nothing wrong with the gun, just wasn't comfortable to me. My CCW instructor is a Glock lover, along with Springfield, and many of the other plastic guns. He feels that they are the safest, most reliable handguns. I beg to differ, but that's another arguement. At the CCW class, I saw Glocks, Springfields, Kimbers, Sigs, Colts, Rugers, Smiths, Berettas...I saw semi autos, I saw revolvers...point being, you have to find the handgun that is right for you, and the only way to do it, is to shoot them.

Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

Pretty cute: You set up a "straw man," and then you knock him down. Nobody, least of all me, said anything about "100% user safety." So tell me, oh Obiwan, if it "ain't got nothing to do with what's between somebody's ears," upon what does real gun safety rely? Mechanisms? Key locks? I strongly suggest to you that describing someone else's opinions or advice as "malarkey" does nothing for your credibility, and even less for reasoned discourse and the exchange of ideas.

Oh, and, by the way, I have more than 65 years of shooting experience. Does that automatically make me smarter than you, or give my advice and opinions greater weight than yours?

I love a good impassioned response!

Me thinks you are your own, 'strawman'. Please re:read your original remark. It clearly implies the existence of 100% reliability. (If not, then, you're setting up a lot of Glock pistol users for failure - Right!)

Neither do you need me to show you what firearm safety devices do or do not work. All you've got to do is look at already existing physical examples of well used firearms. For instance, are you able to provide even one example of an army infantry firearm that does not employ a directly-operated (active) user safety? (There aren't any, are there. See what I mean!)

My use of the term, 'malarkey' is strictly generic; it was not meant to apply to you personally. At the same time I'm sure you can appreciate that I don't care for being called, 'Obiwan' by you - That's a personal attack and is way out-of-line.

Are you smarter than me? I really don't know? You might be; but it'll take more than your latest reply to prove it. Let's not crap up the board; so, enough, now, OK.

Well Doc, since you already know it all, you can discuss the issue with yourself.
Bye.

Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

For what it's worth...

The only safety device that really works is the one inside your head, between your ears.

Glocks, like all guns, are only as safe as the users thereof.
Glocks have sufficient built-in safety devices, as long as the one in your head (between your ears) remains fully functional.

Learn the gun-safety rules, and follow them.

Well said Steve...

As for getting into a competition like IDPA, I'd really learn to shoot well first. You don't need to add the confusion of a competition that resembles an armed track meet right now. Learning how to properly manage the pistol safely should be your first priority. We have people show up at our weekly steel shoot, take the safety class, then we find out that they barely know how to shoot the weapon. At the worst it becomes dangerous, but even if they are safe it causes many just to give up after a few shoots and never try again. Our goal is to add new shooters to our numbers not discourage them.

Really? Somebody needs to know more about how IDPA clubs and competitions actually work.

Jumping into pistol competition isn't the point - It's the regular weekly practice sessions and introductory safety seminars that most pistol clubs conduct that go a long way towards bringing new pistol shooters along. In fact it's often puzzled me that more novice pistol shooters don't take advantage of these practice sessions.

Quite frankly I can't imagine a better way to become familiar with or gain confidence at pistol shooting. This is true for both of the PPC and IDPA clubs which I used to regularly attend. I've seen many a novice pistol shooter progress much more quickly than might otherwise have been the case.

Originally Posted by Glock Doctor

Really? Somebody needs to know more about how IDPA clubs and competitions actually work.

Jumping into pistol competition isn't the point - It's the regular weekly practice sessions and introductory safety seminars that most pistol clubs conduct that go a long way towards bringing new pistol shooters along. In fact it's often puzzled me that more novice pistol shooters don't take advantage of these practice sessions.

Quite frankly I can't imagine a better way to become familiar with or gain confidence at pistol shooting. This is true for both of the PPC and IDPA clubs which I used to regularly attend. I've seen many a novice pistol shooter progress much more quickly than might otherwise have been the case.

Does the orderly know that you are on the computer?

Originally Posted by rgrundy

Does the orderly know that you are on the computer?

I don't know exactly what your problem is; but, remarks like that should always be delivered face-to-face. To do less only serves to mark you as some sort of cyberspace coward.

(Sorry, but it's true!)

To Glock Doctor: Steve said that Glocks, LIKE ALL GUNS, not Glocks alone, need your brain safety. So, thanks for ranting up some dumb stuff!

To ZachRabbit: The LC9 is quite easy to find in ND, I'm not sure about your area. I now have this pistol because my wife didn't like it. I love it. It is a nice little pistol and shoots straight. It does have a rather long and heavy trigger pull, which is it's negative, but after a couple hundred rounds, the trigger is still getting better every time I shoot and clean it.

The Ruger SR9c is also a gun I have used and think this is an excellent choice for you. It is fairly small and you get two magazines; a 10rd and a 17rd, so it can be small if you want to carry and big if you want to shoot. With this pistol you kind of get the Glock 19 & the Glock 26... in my opinion the Ruger feels better

I like that you aren't committed to one company and that you are willing to play the field. I don't agree with everyone that your selections are all over the place. I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE. A plastic framed 9mm seems to be what you want.

The M&P feels like a solid gun, I have nothing to offer on the other pistols. If you don't feel comfortable with a gun that doesn't have a manual safety, don't get it. I'm pretty positive you would do just fine with it though.

Originally Posted by ponzer04

To ZachRabbit: The LC9 is quite easy to find in ND, I'm not sure about your area. I now have this pistol because my wife didn't like it. I love it. It is a nice little pistol and shoots straight. It does have a rather long and heavy trigger pull, which is it's negative, but after a couple hundred rounds, the trigger is still getting better every time I shoot and clean it.

The Ruger SR9c is also a gun I have used and think this is an excellent choice for you. It is fairly small and you get two magazines; a 10rd and a 17rd, so it can be small if you want to carry and big if you want to shoot. With this pistol you kind of get the Glock 19 & the Glock 26... in my opinion the Ruger feels better

I like that you aren't committed to one company and that you are willing to play the field. I don't agree with everyone that your selections are all over the place. I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE. A plastic framed 9mm seems to be what you want.

The M&P feels like a solid gun, I have nothing to offer on the other pistols. If you don't feel comfortable with a gun that doesn't have a manual safety, don't get it. I'm pretty positive you would do just fine with it though.

well, i went and shot at a range today! i'm pretty pleased with how i did there, i didn't think i would do as good as i did. i'll be posting pictures of my targets here in a minute.

i DO like the SR9c. i shot one with the extended mag though.
I also shot a Taurus PT709, and didn't like how i did with it. i feel that the shorter grip wasn't giving my hand the support it needed to have a good hold on the gun. it was a sub-compact gun.

i definitely didn't do bad with the M&P, as you will see. for never shooting a target with a gun ever, and honestly only ever firing like a couple rounds out of a little revolver, i think i did pretty freaking good, i don't know, you all will have to see it.

these are the guns i shot, out of about 6? 7? that i looked at and handled.
Glock 19
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm
Taurus PT709 (compact? sub-compact?....i wanted to shoot a 809 but they didn't have one for rent)
Ruger SR9c (extended mag)


but i definitely liked these three:
Glock 19
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm (i asked for this one not thinking i would even like it, but just decided to try it for the heck of it....ended up being a great choice)
Ruger SR9c


i shot a total of 100 rounds through these guns, total, i think it was some PMI Bronze 115gr. it was something the guy at the gun shop pulled off the shelf for me.
i mostly shot the Glock, and you'll see why i kept going back to it....

another positive thing to the Ruger is that with the shorter magazine you can put the pinky extension on so that your whole hand has room on the pistol.

Have fun making your final choice

Originally Posted by ponzer04

another positive thing to the Ruger is that with the shorter magazine you can put the pinky extension on so that your whole hand has room on the pistol.

Have fun making your final choice

i definitely like that option, they had one in the display case like that. the one they had on rental had the extended mag instead. haha.
i do believe that even if i don't make the Ruger my choice, i'll probably buy it anyway because i KNOW i'll eventually either carry it or simply shoot it all the time. it seemed like a decent gun and i can shoot decent with it now as it is. so i don't believe it will be a bad choice just to buy it so i have it, either.


targets posted in 3, 2, 1......

Glock 19 Gen3, 10 rounds of PMI Bronze 115gr, 25FT, first time ever shooting ANY gun at a range/target:
(i think the middle, far right round in the NINE ring is the one that the guy from the gun store shot, to give me a couple pointers before starting. he only shot one round though, that bullseye was all ME :P )


Glock 19 Gen3, 10 rounds (maybe 9 rounds? can't really find the 10th one, maybe i hit the same hole one time or two) of PMI Bronze 115gr, 25FT, 2nd try. KILL



Glock 19 Gen3, 10 rounds, 40FT (not so hot at 40FT.....but nevertheless they're all inside the rings )



Next, i believe i moved on to the Taurus PT709..... i didn't really like how i shot with this gun, i don't know what it was about it, but i never really got a great grouping at all.... i didn't shoot fast, i kinda took my time on it....but here it is:

Nice pictures...

sorry for my wife's laughing

Originally Posted by ponzer04

sorry for my wife's laughing

it's okay, fixed em. lol.
sorry i'm posting so slow but my computer sucks at uploading pictures to Photobucket.

Originally Posted by ZachRabbit

it's okay, fixed em. lol.
sorry i'm posting so slow but my computer sucks at uploading pictures to Photobucket.

I'm glad you figured out that I was laughing at the photos not coming up, and not the shooting itself. Good job.

Taurus PT709 (i think it was compact), 10 rounds PMI Bronze 115gr, 25FT....1st round of shooting.


Taurus PT709 (i think it was compact), 10 rounds PMI Bronze 115gr, 25FT....suckin it up. haha. the two rounds stacked in the mid to high area of the 7 ring were me using my right eye instead of my left, just to try it out, and see if i happened to do any better....no dice, haha. i went back to my left eye and shot way better....if you can call it good, i just didn't particularly like how this gun shot. don't know if it was because the adrenaline and excitement was starting to kick in, or whether i just really wasn't feeling the gun in my subconscious....either way pretty sucky spread. haha.