New to handguns; full size + subcompact or compact + .22 conversion, etc. - Page 2

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    1. #21
      Cat
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    2. #22
      Senior Member TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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      so the most common caliber in the world has "no utility" for some and is used as a very effective training aide for others?

      i guess i would take a look at the experience of the owners of those opinions and decide who to learn from.

      the .22 may not be the best defense weapon you can find, but it IS better than a bat or an axe or a rock..... and as a survival weapon it has few peers. it can easily be carried, along with 1000s of rounds of ammo. while it may not be the most effective, it WILL take down big game. and in a SHTF scenario its a great gun to get a better gun with. easily suppressed and very accurate.

      so it will teach you
      feed you
      defend you
      and get you a better gun

      and yet it has NO utility? except for zombies?



      like i said, people will tell you everything you need to know about themselves if you just pay attention.

    3. #23
      Member usmcj's Avatar
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      and yet it has NO utility? except for zombies?
      Whenever your position is indefensible, you call in the zombies.....

    4. #24
      Senior Member TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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      i guess i shouldnt take it personally considering that there is an entire generation whose experiences are based on an rpg (NOT a rocket propelled grenade) ..... not real world experience but opinions offered up in a cloud of clove cigarette smoke and sipping lattes while feeling oppressed by "the man" cause they cut the funding for "saving the rain forests by a multicultural student exchange of glbtvrg peoples of all races"

      zombies must seem to be a real threat.... thank god i will not be around to see these people become our future leaders.

    5. #25
      Senior Member recoilguy's Avatar
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      You zombaphobe.........I agree 100% with your post 3 back. Nicely played sir!

      RCG

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by recoilguy View Post
      That makes you experts only in your eyes. If you can't see the advantage of the correct tool in the correct situation, you still have many things to learn. It sounds like my opinion, it's not. It is the way it is.
      Haha this thread is hilarious, and blown out of proportion

      The zombies thing was a joke but i guess only the young can enjoy humor. If you wanna talk about experts they aren't training with .22 bro.... Thats a fact. Who are the experts? I'm talking law enforcement, military, etc. guys who actually use the guns not just recreationally.

      Now will training with a .22 help you? Of course... Will training with a non-gun or a totally plastic non-firing pistol help as well? Yeah
      The point is that training always helps. But the NEED for a .22 is outmatched by the fact that the other calibers out there destroy it simply because they are more useful and practically applied in the real world whereas the .22 is not.

    7. #27
      Member usmcj's Avatar
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      But the NEED for a .22 is outmatched by the fact that the other calibers out there destroy it simply because they are more useful and practically applied in the real world whereas the .22 is not.
      Read the original post... New to handguns ... get it? here's some more of the original post....
      Then I started thinking about ammo. From what I've read, it seems 9mm ammo is 4-5x the cost of .22lr. Given that I'd like to become proficient and not skimp on range time due to ammo costs, it seems I'd be well served by having the ability to shoot .22 ammo, especially early on in my shooting. And given that I want my range time with a .22 to carry over to my self defense pistol, it seems I should go with either a pistol that can be easily converted to shoot .22 (and easily converted back), or two pistols that are very similar, one chambered for 9mm, the other for .22.
      Hence the reason training and .22's were suggested. It's rarely successful to start a NEW SHOOTER out on larger calibers... oh, wait... this has already been discussed, and logic explained.... but you obviously didn't get it then either. Best of luck to ya.

    8. #28
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    9. #29
      Senior Member chessail77's Avatar
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      Getting back to the practical side of this discussion, I own a S&W 15-22 and use it for practice as the controls are identical to the (3) AR 15s I also own, when I transition the time spent shows up in proficiency and the cost difference to train is huge.....JJ

    10. #30
      Member usmcj's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chessail77 View Post
      Getting back to the practical side of this discussion, I own a S&W 15-22 and use it for practice as the controls are identical to the (3) AR 15s I also own, when I transition the time spent shows up in proficiency and the cost difference to train is huge.....JJ
      This is exactly what works best. Thank you chessail77 for your input. This is one of the reasons I have a Sig 1911 chambered in .22, and precisely why my wife has a Bersa Thunder .22 to pair up with her Bersa Thunder .380....

    11. #31
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      So how much more expensive, on average, is 9mm ammo than .22 ammo because an earlier poster made it sound like it was only "slightly" more expensive.

    12. #32
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      It depends on the quality of the ammunition. Rimfire plinking ammo can be bought for a little as $20 for a box of 500 rounds... 9mm I've seen as low as $108 for 500 rounds. (eastern bloc steel cased)...

      Rimfire match ammo can be expensive... like Lapua Midas +... $157 for 500 rounds... Champion's Choice - Detail1 - 420162 - Lapua Midas + .22LR Match Ammunition (per 100 Rounds) - Ammunition - Champion's Choice

      Hornady Steel Match 9mm ammo is $210 for 500 rounds... Champion's Choice - Detail1 - H90275 - HORNADY STEEL MATCH AMMO 9MM LUGER 125 Gr. HAP (50) - Ammunition - Champion's Choice

      Prices vary, but higher quality costs more, and you may well find better prices here and there.....

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
      It depends on the quality of the ammunition. Rimfire plinking ammo can be bought for a little as $20 for a box of 500 rounds... 9mm I've seen as low as $108 for 500 rounds. (eastern bloc steel cased)...
      OK, it sounds like .22 ammo is generally sufficiently less expensive that it makes sense to have a way (either conversion kit or similar styled pistol chambered in .22) to shoot .22 for bulk of practice when your primary pistol is a 9mm.

    14. #34
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      beararms, ...That's the way I see it, but obviously, some see it differently. YOU have to choose what works for you, and your wallet, then be glad you have the choice. I believe that to have the same platform chambered in .22 for most training, and your preferred caliber for carry, and supplemental training, is the best mix of cost and proficiency. In the end, it's up to the individual.

    15. #35
      Senior Member TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by recoilguy View Post
      You zombaphobe.........I agree 100% with your post 3 back. Nicely played sir!

      RCG
      yvw

    16. #36
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    17. #37
      Senior Member chessail77's Avatar
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      Is a zombie a democrat who hasn't had his latte yet ????

    18. #38
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      The first advice I give to all new prospective first handgun owners is to take an NRA handgun safety course (if you haven't done so already) and then try to find a range that rents guns and try as many as you can. Then, research the guns for reliability, potential issues, price, etc... on this website and others. Then you'll be in a position to make a well-informed decision and be a safe user/owner.

      On to your questions... I like your approach of using a 22LR for practice as a beginner and for fun. It's good for reasons mentioned by others (trigger practice, site alignment), but it's generally not a recommended caliber for defense. 9mm is good for defense, but there are some who may disagree. Another nice thing about 9mm is that the ammo is plentiful and inexpensive compared to just about everything but 22. A note of a caution: you must split your practice time with the 22LR and the 9mm (or whatever caliber you choose). Recoil, time to regain site alignment and other factors will be quite different -- even with the same gun in combo. You need to be prepared.

      I would also recommend learning/getting your first experience with a compact (NOT a sub-compact) or full size gun. Then look into smaller guns for concealed carry once you gain some proficiency and experience. I think sub-compact or mouse guns would be more challenging and less enjoyable to a beginner who is trying to acquire good fundamental skills.

      I personally went down a similar path as you and purchased 2 separate guns; a 9mm and a 22LR. And, just recently, have become interested in smaller guns for better concealment. My brother is just now going down the same path and he is considering the EAA Witness 9mm and 22LR combo on Bud's for $419. It seems like a great deal. And from what I can tell, EAA has a pretty good reputation. I started a thread a day or two ago to start collecting opinions from others. You might want to search for it and see what others have to say about EAA if you're interested.

      If I had it to do all over again (knowing what I know now), I'd seriously consider this EAA deal. The Glocks, Sigs, and others for which you can purchase conversion kits will end up costing you at least double what this EAA deal is going to cost. Arguably, you may end up with a higher quality gun by going with Glock or Sig -- it depends how much you want to spend (or save) at this point.

    19. #39
      Senior Member recoilguy's Avatar
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      I would be very hard pressed to assume you end up with a higher quality gun if you go with Glock or Sig. EAA Tangfolio is a very good weapon and in most models an excellent one.

      RCG

    20. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by ronmail65 View Post
      The first advice I give to all new prospective first handgun owners is to take an NRA handgun safety course (if you haven't done so already) and then try to find a range that rents guns and try as many as you can. Then, research the guns for reliability, potential issues, price, etc... on this website and others. Then you'll be in a position to make a well-informed decision and be a safe user/owner.

      On to your questions... I like your approach of using a 22LR for practice as a beginner and for fun. It's good for reasons mentioned by others (trigger practice, site alignment), but it's generally not a recommended caliber for defense. 9mm is good for defense, but there are some who may disagree. Another nice thing about 9mm is that the ammo is plentiful and inexpensive compared to just about everything but 22. A note of a caution: you must split your practice time with the 22LR and the 9mm (or whatever caliber you choose). Recoil, time to regain site alignment and other factors will be quite different -- even with the same gun in combo. You need to be prepared.

      I would also recommend learning/getting your first experience with a compact (NOT a sub-compact) or full size gun. Then look into smaller guns for concealed carry once you gain some proficiency and experience. I think sub-compact or mouse guns would be more challenging and less enjoyable to a beginner who is trying to acquire good fundamental skills.

      I personally went down a similar path as you and purchased 2 separate guns; a 9mm and a 22LR. And, just recently, have become interested in smaller guns for better concealment. My brother is just now going down the same path and he is considering the EAA Witness 9mm and 22LR combo on Bud's for $419. It seems like a great deal. And from what I can tell, EAA has a pretty good reputation. I started a thread a day or two ago to start collecting opinions from others. You might want to search for it and see what others have to say about EAA if you're interested.

      If I had it to do all over again (knowing what I know now), I'd seriously consider this EAA deal. The Glocks, Sigs, and others for which you can purchase conversion kits will end up costing you at least double what this EAA deal is going to cost. Arguably, you may end up with a higher quality gun by going with Glock or Sig -- it depends how much you want to spend (or save) at this point.
      Yes, I plan to take a course first. And yeah, I've heard that subcompact is not a good first firearm.

      Thanks, I'll check out the EEA thread.

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