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Thread: swindled

  1. #1
    gotguns57 is offline Junior Member
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    Question swindled

    I feel foolish about the swap of a hand gun at a gun show. the trader represented the pistol as in good working order and reliable, neither was true. I have sent them an e-mail
    experssing my anger over what I feel was a swindle deal and as expected have gotten no response. Can anyone please give me a suggested (leagle) recourse ? The trader is connected
    with a large sporting goods opperation and before I dissclose their idenity would like to see if this issue can be resolved peacefully. All reasonable suggestions will be appreaciated

  2. #2
    VAMarine's Avatar
    VAMarine is offline Administrator
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    What did you buy? What's wrong with it? What state are you in? You say, swap...did you trade a gun or buy the gun outright? How long ago did this transaction occur? Is the seller local? You say the seller is "with" a large sporting goods operation, in which way? Is he a part owner? An employee? Was this sale under the "name" of this Sporting goods operation?

  3. #3
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    hire a lawyer

  4. #4
    gotguns57 is offline Junior Member
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    VAMarine thanks for responding, here's the deal I traded my Khar .40 cal for what was represented as a clot .45. I have now discovered that it is a replica Dakota .45 colt made in Jager Italy. That was not my immeadate concern. I made the trade about a month ago it has been in my safe until now when I had time to try it out. At the show I was not able to review the gun because the hammer was zip tied down. Before going out to the field I was insepcting the gun to find out that the fireing pin is loose and the cylinder does not rotate properly in fact when the gun is held pointing up the cylinder will not rotate at all and in the second click position the cylinder free spins with no "click" to the stop pin. I have also found out that this particular gun is no longer made and parts are unavailble to have it rebuilt. (Alot of internet searches) however I live in washington state and the dealer is from a company called "Sports Connection" which has outlets in Idaho and Montana this information came off the sales slip I was given after the trade that contains the Ser#,description and scribbled signature of the seller. I do not know what his affillation with the company I only that at the show which I go each year the other sellers say he is the best ?? thoughts

  5. #5
    gotguns57 is offline Junior Member
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    thank you it may come to that

  6. #6
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    after reading your problem i think that you are stuck.... while the gun may not be a Colt .45 it probably IS a .45 long colt.... an inspection of the barrel should have given you the makers name and location and caliber. having had the weapon for about a month may now appear to be buyers remorse. the fact that you couldnt fully inspect the weapon at the gun show should be a red flag. and armi jager went out of business in the early 90s because they didnt have enough skilled workers to keep making crappy guns.....

    caveat emptor

  7. #7
    gotguns57 is offline Junior Member
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    TedDeBearfrmhell thanks for your input however buyers remorse is not the issue the fact that the gun is not in working order and in my oppion is dangerous to fire is. It seems to me that any reputable dealer should be aware of the condition of the firearms they sell and not try to unload crap to unwary buyers just to make a profit. thuogh that may be the american way. buyer beware is a good cop out
    but not a soulution. thanks agian

  8. #8
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotguns57 View Post
    TedDeBearfrmhell thanks for your input however buyers remorse is not the issue the fact that the gun is not in working order and in my oppion is dangerous to fire is. It seems to me that any reputable dealer should be aware of the condition of the firearms they sell and not try to unload crap to unwary buyers just to make a profit. thuogh that may be the american way. buyer beware is a good cop out
    but not a soulution. thanks agian
    i was in no way implying that you werent ripped off, i was however saying that you will have to prove it and its going to be very hard.

  9. #9
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotguns57 View Post
    VAMarine thanks for responding, here's the deal I traded my Khar .40 cal for what was represented as a clot .45. I have now discovered that it is a replica Dakota .45 colt made in Jager Italy. That was not my immeadate concern. I made the trade about a month ago it has been in my safe until now when I had time to try it out. At the show I was not able to review the gun because the hammer was zip tied down. Before going out to the field I was insepcting the gun to find out that the fireing pin is loose and the cylinder does not rotate properly in fact when the gun is held pointing up the cylinder will not rotate at all and in the second click position the cylinder free spins with no "click" to the stop pin. I have also found out that this particular gun is no longer made and parts are unavailble to have it rebuilt. (Alot of internet searches) however I live in washington state and the dealer is from a company called "Sports Connection" which has outlets in Idaho and Montana this information came off the sales slip I was given after the trade that contains the Ser#,description and scribbled signature of the seller. I do not know what his affillation with the company I only that at the show which I go each year the other sellers say he is the best ?? thoughts
    OK, there's going to be some issues. Generally all gun sales are final. As TBFH pointed out, after this amount of time it will be harder to come out on top. First and foremost you need to contact either the direct seller or find out who's in charge of the "Sports Connection" if you were genuinely misled regarding the type of gun etc. you may want to go over the actual seller if there is a higher up you can reach. But as TBFH indicated you may have misinterpreted the caliber, .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt for the make of the firearm.

    As for the banding of the gun, this is going to be hard to argue against as you could have checked some of those items right there at the table prior to departure, especially when trading a gun. The worst part of this is that the odds of your Kahr still being able to be retrieved are slim.

    Looking at the issue I think you're probably hosed, BUT as the gun is defective there may be hope of getting your gun back IF it has not been sold.

    Do you have all the paperwork associated with the transaction that reflects your trade?

    If the dealer gives you the run around and you were feel you were taken unfairly YOU MUST BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF ON THIS, you may want to contact the Better Business Bureau in your state and possibly the sates where "Sports Connection" is out of. I just looked around on-line, and it looks like "Sports Connection" is not the dealer, but the promoter/host of the show. You're going to need to verify who made the trade with you. Hopefully you have copies of the 4473 or other paperwork / receipt

  10. #10
    gotguns57 is offline Junior Member
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    VAMarine, thanks once agian for yor time and dillagance in this matter. I own other guns and the cost diffrence is not the issue here or whether or not I relized it to be an actual colt or not my issue
    is the fact the gun is a non functioning and if I may a dangerous piece had another preson not as dillagent on the condition of the gun gone and fired it and it exploded in hand there would be other issues.
    However since that is not the case here I will take your advise and contact the BBB in all three states and possibly a few other federal agencys. I realize it may not be possible to retrive the original
    traded gun or even be compensated for the loss. there was no 4473 only a receipt. I will be going back to the show next year and bring this issue up to the trader if I can not get to the bottom of this before then. I'd like to thank you and TBFH for all of your help.

  11. #11
    45Sidekick's Avatar
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    good god man that does suck vamarine and the teddebear are as right as they could be, im not exactly sure what all youd need to go through but with it being possession for about a month is gonna make it hard to dispute as theyre going to be hounding you about how you could not notice until now(when speaking to any legal advisor, company employee, company supervisor, manager, defendants lawyer if it goes that far) you see what im saying. but you are totally correct when it comes down to it being an unsafe firearm that should NOT be sold to anyone as a working, safe pistol. thats unreal i came across a taurus tracker at a pawn shop and its cylinder spun freely with the hammer down, they should get the shaft too for selling these unsafe firearms, but best of luck to you. let us know how that turns out

  12. #12
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    "Sports Connection" is not the dealer, but the promoter/host of the show.[/URL][/U][/B] You're going to need to verify who made the trade with you. Hopefully you have copies of the 4473 or other paperwork / receipt
    this is exactly right, sports connection is the promoter of the event, they lease the venue and do all the advertising, and then they sell space to vendors who then buy/sell/trade to the show goers.... the promoter doesnt have a thing to do with individual transactions.

    it is the individual vendor who is responsible for their products. as a former shop owner/ffl dealer i dont see any recourse on this for you. not trying to be a smart ass, just a realist....

    i would do a few things before you figure out how to proceed....

    first take the pistol to a competent gunsmith for a safety/function check and if it fails get an esimate on how much it would cost to fix it.

    then i would look thru my papers from the sale and find the actual vendors name , then i would contact him and tell him about the gun and its needed repairs, ask for a refund of that amount and if they refuse ask for your gun back.

    at this point i am pretty sure the vendor is going to claim that if the gun is broken, YOU did it..... that it was fine when you bought it and that its not his problem.

    and you cant prove otherwise.

    i have said it before, i will say it again..... do not buy anything at a gun show if you can not do a full function and safety check.... you dont know what you are buying!!! if you buy a used gun from a private vendor at a gun show you cant even report him to the BBB.

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