H&K vs. Kimber (Questions from a novice)

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    1. #1
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      H&K vs. Kimber (Questions from a novice)

      Hi all. First off I'd like to apologize in advance for anything I state that's incorrect or misinformed. I'm very new to this as I have only just turned 21 and my application is in process (NYC). Despite the "in-process" aspect, I can't help but be scouring the Internet for any reviews, videos, and forums I can get my figurative hands on. To get more to the point, I am looking for a suitable first handgun (home defense) and after much looking I have been debating between the Kimber Ultra Carry ii and the H&K P2000. I'm leaning towards the compacts because I have relatively small hands and I want to go with something that will feel right. Any input would be helpful and please feel free to offer other options. Thanks, everyone!

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      In terms of quality, both Kimber and HK are superb

      Your good with either choice... I have a USP Compact which is similar to the P2000, and it has yet to jam after 1,000 + rounds...I would be lying to you if I didn't tell you I drool over Kimber 1911's tho

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      I understand that the Kimbers have a 500 round "break-in" period, after which the gun should be free of any misfires and such. Is this true for the HK as well? I've heard other people say that they have seen the Kimber jam every once in a while (albeit few and far between) but haven't heard anything like that for the HKs. Also thanks for your help!
      Mike

    4. #4
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      I've had four Kimbers, I currently have one, three of them have needed some form of work, two of them were total lemons. I have three HKs, none of which have ever needed work.

      I've heard of some HkP2000s being a little finicky with the first couple 100rds or so with "light" ammunition.

      If I had it to do again, I'd probably go with HK and never mess with Kimber...what can I say, I'm jaded.


      Now, as for gun size, the big reason for small guns is for easier carry, as you are more concerned with home defense (is you County anti carry?) the size is a non issue really. Looking at it from a small hand perspective, the only difference than say a P2000 and a larger P30 is grip height. Same with an Ultra and either a Pro or full size Kimber and I would rather have the larger gun for home defense.

      if you like the P2000, take a look at the P30 as well.

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      Quote Originally Posted by bengewarmer View Post
      I understand that the Kimbers have a 500 round "break-in" period, after which the gun should be free of any misfires and such. Is this true for the HK as well? I've heard other people say that they have seen the Kimber jam every once in a while (albeit few and far between) but haven't heard anything like that for the HKs. Also thanks for your help!
      Mike
      Most 1911's need somewhat of a breaking period like that. To tell you the truth all guns need to be shot minimum 300 rounds before you can say its reliable to any extent

      My Heckler and Koch (and everyone I know what has an HK) has never jammed and I honestly don't think it ever will. HKs are ultra reliable, thats why you pay the extra 300 bucks

      You really cant go wrong with HK (or SIG or my favorite GLock)... I give the edge to HK only cause I own and know first hand their reliablity

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      Very interesting. I was looking at the P30 for a bit as well, though I think I'm partial to the P2000 as far as the HKs go. And yes, as far as carry goes, my county is a "it'll be a cold day in hell when we issue", so premise for me unless I decide to move. Which doesn't seem like a bad idea. I appreciate the info. I'm waiting by my mailbox pretty much every day so I can finally start shopping around. Hopefully I'll be able to find a dealer that has all the models I'm looking at so I can actually hold them before making a decision.

    7. #7
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      HK, Sig and Glock are ultra reliable and should be first, try them and see which fits you best and save the Kimber for down the road as if you are like the rest of us you will have more firearms in the future....JJ

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      I will definitely be seeing which fits best. Any thoughts on the USPc in a .45?

    9. #9
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      If you are that concerned about the small hand issue, I'd take the Hk45C over the USPc for the ability to change back straps for better fit.

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      Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
      If you are that concerned about the small hand issue, I'd take the Hk45C over the USPc for the ability to change back straps for better fit.
      Agree

      Even the USPc in 9mm is not very ergonomic, tho it does feel good it doesn't feel as good as the HK45s or the P30s
      The only reason I have a USPc over the P30 or HK45 is for very superficial reasons (jack bauer 24 lol)

      I love the HK45s and P30s, wont have another HK for awhile bc of their price

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      The only reason I have a USPc over the P30 or HK45 is for very superficial reasons (jack bauer 24 lol)
      Haha that's kind of one of my reasons as well. I figure if all of these HK's are comparable, why not go for Jack's gun?

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      Quote Originally Posted by bengewarmer View Post
      Haha that's kind of one of my reasons as well. I figure if all of these HK's are comparable, why not go for Jack's gun?
      Haha yeah I couldn't help myself on that one..lol

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      aHeK All the way. Funny that you mention my favorite gun compared to my least favorite gun. I absolutely hate Kimbers. I've seen too many of them in the dead cockroach position at matches to ever carry one when it counts. My USP40 once broke a trigger bar (70,000 rounds) and kept firing for an entire USPSA match. Oh, the trigger pull was horrific, grindy, and just kept getting worse, but the gun put another 150 rounds down range after any other gun would have been out of action. I discovered the problem after the match.

      Interestingly enough, for all the bad things you hear about HK customer service, the had the gun back in my hands in less than a week with a complete factory rebuild done at no cost.

      These are the reasons I trust HK.

    14. #14
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      So after all the help, I'm now debating between the USPc and the P2000. I've noticed that only the USPc comes in a .45. Since this is going to be primarily a home defense gun, are there any suggestions pertaining to the caliber? Would a P2000 in .40 be sufficient?

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      Quote Originally Posted by bengewarmer View Post
      So after all the help, I'm now debating between the USPc and the P2000. I've noticed that only the USPc comes in a .45. Since this is going to be primarily a home defense gun, are there any suggestions pertaining to the caliber? Would a P2000 in .40 be sufficient?
      The P2000 was designed to be an improvement on the USP-c in terms of ergonomics, weight, and most have no safeties unlike the USPs. The P2000 and the USP-c accept the same magazines which is cool (and a reason I want a p2000 to go with my USP-c)

      Basically its going to come down to this: Weight, Caliber, and Design
      My HK USP-C is kinda a heavy pistol especially for a compact gun, I still love it... If you ever want to carry go p2000 but if you arent go HK USP

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by bengewarmer View Post
      So after all the help, I'm now debating between the USPc and the P2000. I've noticed that only the USPc comes in a .45. Since this is going to be primarily a home defense gun, are there any suggestions pertaining to the caliber? Would a P2000 in .40 be sufficient?
      According to who?

      Heckler & Koch - USA

      As for calibers, despite what anyone may say, a 9mm, .357Sig, .40 or .45ACP are all adequate for self/home defense. I generally advise those new to shooting to go with the 9mm.

      A pretty good read HERE
      1. The Myth of the “One Shot Stop”, Part 1: Faster Strings of Fire are Better.
      2. The Myth of the “One Shot Stop”, Part 2: Higher Capacity is Better.
      3. Negligible Difference in Practical Wounding Potential.
      4. Lower Cost, High Value Practice

      There you have it. Those are the four primary reasons that I now recommend 9mm as the personal defense round of choice, have been converting my own personal .40 S&W firearms over to 9mm and would never purchase a .40 S&W firearm for personal defense if I were starting all over today. I let anyone who asks me about defensive guns or bullets know how I feel today, despite years of recommending the .40 and talking about how it was a great compromise between the 9mm and .45. In the mid-90’s I was wrong about the advantages of that round and I have definitely changed my mind about the inadequacies of the 9mm. Acknowledging that I was wrong in the past, is the only way that I can share what I now believe is the best recommendation I can give.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by bengewarmer View Post
      So after all the help, I'm now debating between the USPc and the P2000. I've noticed that only the USPc comes in a .45. Since this is going to be primarily a home defense gun, are there any suggestions pertaining to the caliber? Would a P2000 in .40 be sufficient?
      According to who?

      Heckler & Koch - USA

      As for calibers, despite what anyone may say, a 9mm, .357Sig, .40 or .45ACP are all adequate for self/home defense. I generally advise those new to shooting to go with the 9mm.

      A pretty good read HERE
      1. The Myth of the “One Shot Stop”, Part 1: Faster Strings of Fire are Better.
      2. The Myth of the “One Shot Stop”, Part 2: Higher Capacity is Better.
      3. Negligible Difference in Practical Wounding Potential.
      4. Lower Cost, High Value Practice

      There you have it. Those are the four primary reasons that I now recommend 9mm as the personal defense round of choice, have been converting my own personal .40 S&W firearms over to 9mm and would never purchase a .40 S&W firearm for personal defense if I were starting all over today. I let anyone who asks me about defensive guns or bullets know how I feel today, despite years of recommending the .40 and talking about how it was a great compromise between the 9mm and .45. In the mid-90’s I was wrong about the advantages of that round and I have definitely changed my mind about the inadequacies of the 9mm. Acknowledging that I was wrong in the past, is the only way that I can share what I now believe is the best recommendation I can give.

    18. #18
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      I'll agree with JD this time. Caliber is not wholly relevent to self defense. Personally, if it's for home defense and not for carry, I'd go with a USP fullsize and take advantage of that excellent recoil system (the compact does not have it). The USP was designed from the ground up as a .40, so I'd probably go with that for my first one.

    19. #19
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      Thanks for the input. Still waiting for my license . Any thoughts on DAO vs DA/SA for home defense? I've been thinking that DAO seems like a safer choice for home defense, especially in regards to its defensibility in court. Again, my experience only goes so far as reading magazines and second hand accounts, but until I actually have my license in hand, the more information I can get, the better.

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      The bad news is that HK's DA pull is horrendous, especially when the gun is new. It's like 5 miles of bad road, covered in super glue and broken glass. No, I would not recommend a DAO over an SA/DA for ANYTHING. It should not be a viable defense in court--face it if you shot him then you either met AOJ and IDOL or you didn't. The trigger pull only matters if it's claimed that you shot him accidentally--something you should vehemently deny and strenuously avoid.

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