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  1. #1
    Mr.Atoz is offline Junior Member
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    New to handguns, have a question about normal wear and tear

    Hi,

    I'm new to handguns and have a question about normal wear and tear. I own a Sig Sauer SP2022 9mm. I recently brought it out to the range for the first time, put about 150 rounds through it, brought it home, cleaned it and put it away. I didn't look at it really carefully after I cleaned it, I just sort of put it away.

    Today I was looking in the barrel and saw brass colored streaks along the rifling, and the brass colored imprint of a bullet on the back of the chamber.

    Is this normal, or should I have scrubbed harder when I was cleaning?

    Thank you!

    Jeff

  2. #2
    hud35500's Avatar
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    That really isn't wear on the gun. It's traces of copper and brass from the ammunition and can easily be removed with a good bore scrubber and brush. Normal wear on a 2022 is usually on the frame rails. You will eventually see some wear with stainless steel showing towards the end of the rail. It is nothing to worry about. If you see bare metal, lube that area well, and keep on shooting.

  3. #3
    talldrink's Avatar
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    Be sure the solvent you're using is also for copper if your shooting fmj ammo. If your solvent is just for lead the copper will stay in the barrel. You can wet patch your barrel and let it "soak" for however long you need and then dry patch it out. Even then you may never get 100% of it out. I'm assuming that the brass colored imprint of a bullet on the back of the chamber is acctually on the breech face from the case rim. For that you can use an old tooth brush and some solvent.

  4. #4
    Mr.Atoz is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks guys! I switched to Hoppes (I had been using another cleaner) and scrubbed again with the bore cleaner. It made a nice difference.

  5. #5
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    The only really rapid wear and tear that I've seen on handguns was with an aluminum framed semi-automatic and hollow points. The "sharp" edge of the hollow point wore deeply into the aluminum ramp on the frame.

    If I were shooting with an aluminum framed semi-automatic I would probably want to use round nose or full military jacket ammo to reduce this wear.

    Glocks are reputed to go 30,000 rounds or more before needing to retire; other weapons seem to last less long. Recoil springs have to be replaced more frequently than that. Barrels can easily be replaceds if they show any wear at all. If the grooves that the slide ride in on the frame show wear then that will be a real issue. Keep that clean as the dirt and grit can be abrasive and accelerate wear.

    All you can really do is keep your weapon clean and lightly (lightly!) oiled, and use good ammunition.

  6. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    The only really rapid wear and tear that I've seen on handguns was with an aluminum framed semi-automatic and hollow points. The "sharp" edge of the hollow point wore deeply into the aluminum ramp on the frame...
    Can you document this?
    What gun? When? After how many shots? In your own possession?

    I might believe that an aluminum feed-ramp may show undue wear after thousands of rounds have passed over it. But HP bullets are not as sharp-edged as all that, don't normally hit the feed-ramp edge-first, and are made with a soft enough lead core to deform rather than damage aluminum.

    I remain deeply skeptical.

  7. #7
    hud35500's Avatar
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    Copper and lead are softer than aluminum. The aluminum may show some wear after a few thousand rounds, but it would be negligible.

  8. #8
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Aluminum has a Rockwell hardness of 68 on the C scale; copper has a hardness of 68 on the C scale (look it up). Both the copper and the aluminum will wear at the same rate. Aluminum that has been anodized will be slightly harder but only to a depth of .0001" to .0003". Once the color is gone the protection is too.

    My Star PD showed bright aluminum on the feed ramp after just a few hundred rounds. If you polish the ramp you will accomplish the same. After that they wear at the same rate.

    There are manufacturers that sell replacement feed ramps. Here is one: Steel Feed Ramp Insert w/ Instructions: Evolution Gun Works Inc.

    There is at least one high end 1911 manufacturer that produces their aluminum framed guns with steel ramps (I forget which one right now).

    If you Google, "steel feed ramps aluminum frame pistol" you will find many (2,000,000) references to this and many references to worn aluminum frames. http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...m+frame+pistol


    In my opinion practice rounds in aluminum framed weapons should be lead. Lead is softer than aluminum and should show little or no wear (contamination of the lead ingot can cause wear. Melted lead wheel weights were notorious for grit contamination.).

    I further believe that copper clad round nose will cause less of an issue than hollow points. I have no proof for that, but practice ammo can be gotten in round nose and that is what I would use.

    Note: Lead is too soft to measure on the Rockwell equipment and is measured on the Brinell scale. I don't use this equipment and I don't know the conversion. But even hard alloys of lead (linotype lead) are softer than aluminum.

    Addendum:

    Lead measures 12 to 30 on the Brinell scale, significantly lower than the 60 that bare aluminum gets (alloy 6061).

    Alloy 7075 gets a measument of 150 on the Brinell scale (harder than copper and lead). So if the frame is made from 7075 aluminum then the frame will be harder than the copper clad bullets. Notwithstanding that fact, there are an awful lot of notes about worn ramps on aluminum framed pistols.

  9. #9
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    OK, Packard—you know metallurgy. I accept your point.
    Thanks for quoting "chapter and verse."

  10. #10
    denner's Avatar
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    I think your confusing all aluminum framed pistols as opposed to aluminum framed pistols with original aluminum feed ramps, that may be replaced with steel feed ramp inserts, generally some 1911's? Beretta M9's for example, with aluminum frames can go much longer than 30,000 rounds, some have made it to 176,000 rounds. However, the M9s have the feed ramp manufactured with it's barrel which is steel and supported, nor is it a steel insert on an aluminum frame. If the aluminum frame goes out on a M9 it won't have anything to do with it's feed ramp and hollow point ammunition.

  11. #11
    noob081 is offline Junior Member
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    Also New to shooting

    I am also new to shooting and recently made my first handgun purchase. After my first trip to the range, I noticed some wear marks or rubbing on the top of the chamber where the barrel/chamber contacts the slide. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to prevent these blemishes?

  12. #12
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob081 View Post
    I am also new to shooting and recently made my first handgun purchase. After my first trip to the range, I noticed some wear marks or rubbing on the top of the chamber where the barrel/chamber contacts the slide. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to prevent these blemishes?
    normal, you gun is a tool, it will become blemished IF you use it enough to become proficient. parts will wear out and eventual even break, its the nature of a machine. do maintenance and dont worry about a nick or a scuff or a blemish unless you want a shiney bauble to oooh and aaah over.

    personally i would rather my gun work correctly and look like its a working gun, we can oooh and aaah over the holes in the targets.

  13. #13
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob081 View Post
    I am also new to shooting and recently made my first handgun purchase. After my first trip to the range, I noticed some wear marks or rubbing on the top of the chamber where the barrel/chamber contacts the slide. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to prevent these blemishes?
    What type of pistol are we talking about? When your slide pushes a new round up or onto the feed ramp/frame and then into the chamber/barrel it would be perfectly normal to show friction marks. It's the only way it works and is perfectly normal. Some pistol designs have a more straight feed into the chamber generally bypassing the frame altogether or slightly contacting the frame/feeding ramp.

  14. #14
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    chessail77 is offline Senior Member
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    Hoppes is good to go, just make sure you lube the Sig as they like to "run wet" there is a good guide on Sig Forum on lubrication...might want to check it out...JJ

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