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  1. #21
    Cryotech is offline Junior Member
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    Wow! Awesome advice all! And very much appreciated!

    Too be honest, I didn't know what I should be looking for and though I knew, just through commonsense, that velocity would have to play some major part in the overall damage, I didn't quite understand how it all tied together.

    @MLB - Awesome, thanks for the additional tip. I was actually working on my physics formula for bullet damage until I received the much appreciated PM updates from Steve and Dan. You all definitely made my life a heckalot easier lol.

    @Steve - Never even thought of that, nor even knew those tables existed, which would explain why I never even thought of it lol. Thank you, it did help. I did some searching on the top manufacturer sites but was bombarded by a plethoria of information that basically blew my brains (no pun intended lol). I do average everyday physics, even quantum physics and I can program 5 different computer languages but I have to admit, the knowledge you all know is waaaaay over my head lol so my hats off to all of you. You're truly professionals of the field. I was completely lost trying to understand all the different grains, bullet shape and type, barrel lengths and a lot more I'm still trying to digest that adds just another variable to the mix of 1,000,000 other variables lol. I think that's where I went wrong. I was trying to substitute commonsense physics by making it way to complex with all the variables of a firearm's bullet. But, that's extremely hard not to do because every little bit adds to or takes away from the overall damage capabilities of the bullet itself.

    @Dan - *whistles* That's exactly what I was looking for In game wise, there'll be additional factors of course and will require some tweaking for physics, but that's the easy part lol. Thanks a million! Combined with that data and the tables Steve pointed me to I'm going to be going nuts with firearm conversions lol.

    @kg333 - Thanks for the link, that game looks wicked sweet!

    Again, thanks for all the help everyone, I'm truly grateful for such wonderful advice!

  2. #22
    buckler's Avatar
    buckler is offline Banned
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    hatcher was full of it, he based most of his "formula" on LaGuarde's LIES about the "test' that he and Thompson did on a lousy 6 steers, back in 1907 or some such, with ridiculously out of date rds. 476 Eley, 38 long Colt, 455 Webley, stuff nobody knew or cared about by the 60's, much less today. The test proved nothing, because it was so egregiously out of spec in the first place. All 6 steers were still standing after 2 full minutes after taking 6 rds in the chest. the cadavers, hung by the neckl, "twitched a bit', when shot thru the chest with handgun rds, but no measurements were even attempted. the entire test result was published in the Gun Digest, `1981-82, I forget which. It's also been published, look for it at Ray Riling Arms Books, or used at amazon.com or in your library's BOOKS IN PRINT reference works. Read it for yoursel, and LAUGH at Cooper, Hatcher, Taylor and the rest of the 'momentum' bsing crowd.

  3. #23
    buckler's Avatar
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    such a table, etc as you seek would require consistant hits on the same organ, at the same angle, same depth of penetration, etc, totally bogus assumption, basically.

  4. #24
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    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    buckler, go away and grow up.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckler View Post
    such a table, etc as you seek would require consistant hits on the same organ, at the same angle, same depth of penetration, etc, totally bogus assumption, basically.
    And the Professor again S.O.H.A.

  6. #26
    buckler's Avatar
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    you can't challenge what I say in any logical manner, so you have no choice but to resort to general degradation sorts of comments. It is a very revealing "tactic" of those who lack any real "ammo" in a debate.

  7. #27
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    OK. That's it. I refuse to waste time arguing with an idiot.

    buckler, you can post whatever you like from now on, and I won't engage you.
    Of course, I may also post in the same thread, and write something that actually makes much better sense.
    But I won't argue with you.

    You are a troll and a fool. But someday you may grow up.

  8. #28
    Cryotech is offline Junior Member
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    @buckler - As much as I appreciate your advice and you trying to help, I have to admit that you haven't added anything to the conversation that is remotely useful to me in any form. To be honest, I don't really care about "personal insight" of what is truth or what isn't, because I know for a fact ballistics can be performed and with high degrees of accuracy. An example would be Forensic Scientists using ballistic testing and accurately pin-pointing the type of firearm, bullet as well as the grain by using ballistic calculations based on the damage caused. Maybe this information stems from Thatcher and maybe it doesn't but to say that what they do is a "lie and is bogus and cannot be done" doesn't make sense, is bogus in-itself, shows you haven't done your research enough to commit supporting facts to your argument and doesn't help you in your debate and would never stand up in court, literally.

    I personally wouldn't say what they did was a "lie" but more of a viable test with as accurate information as possible based on what they had to work with at the time. Of course nothing is ever going to be 100% accurate there is just way to many factors negating true accuracy. Even today's ballistic testing methods are not 100% accurate but they are pretty darn close enough to be considered accurate enough for forensic evidence in court and that's good enough for me.

    such a table, etc as you seek would require consistant hits on the same organ, at the same angle, same depth of penetration, etc, totally bogus assumption, basically.
    Your argument noted above doesn't make sense. Even if you shot someone with an extremely high-powered rifle at point blank range with a FMJ and if they miraculously lived, and you shot them exactly in the same spot, with the same angle of entry and same depth of penetration, at the exact same distance etc, sure you might kill them and you might not, but chances of you actually pulling all that off perfectly are higher than you winning the lottery based on all the minute variables and no test based on those statistics would ever be considered accurate because it's unrealistic because the secondary bullet wouldn't have any initial resistance as the first bullet did and therefore would do more damage beyond the first bullet thus throwing off your purely accurate statistics. That is a true bogus test.

    I really don't understand why you're taking this personal and getting all up-in-arms (pun intended) about a topic you obviously have no interest contributing useful information in. the funniest thing about your whole debate, in my humble opinion, is the fact that your arguing on a thread that was posted to gain some sort of "generalized" (hint, generalized means just that. It doesn't stand for pure, realistic accuracy based on bogus information you claim doesn't exist, which in-itself doesn't make sense because it has to exist for you to claim it's bogus to begin with) formula to be used in a GAME engine. Truth of the matter is, it's not how many times someone or something was shot in the same exact place that matters to me, it's the OVERALL damage done to the body that causes it to cease it's digital life that matters. Not sure why you can't understand this.

    If it were me, I'd seriously think about the maturity of it all and how it reflected and made me look to everyone else. But, then again, that's just me.

  9. #29
    Cryotech is offline Junior Member
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    To everyone else, thank you for the information that did help

  10. #30
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    Handled with grace, Cryotech, and my apologies about my jab at your name. Best of luck with your game, and let me know if you need beta testers!

    KG

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryotech View Post
    @buckler - As much as I appreciate your advice and you trying to help, I have to admit that you haven't added anything to the conversation that is remotely useful to me in any form. . .
    I got the "idea" about Buckler when Steve pointed out some other threads in which he posted which I took the time to "review".
    With that, Buckler no longer "counts" with me.

    Cryotech: If there is anything that I can possibly contribute to your project, feel free to PM me. Or maybe you could start another "Post request".
    As I'm sure you've figured out, I am a data and algorithm "junkie".

    Long ago and far away I devoted my life "playing with our real world car accident data". The stakes were VERY high.
    And I came up with conclusions that kicked the sxxt out of university and NGOs' conclusions based totally on their personal bias.
    It did result in them attacking me on a personal basis. But, they couldn't refute the "real stuff".
    Now that is GREAT fun !

    As a private pilot and a beta tester, I had also had low-level fun as Sierra bought "Fly !" and tried to create "Fly !!".
    And then they gave up and threw the FLY !developers under the bus. Microsoft's Flight Simulator was just too much competition.
    Trying to create the "stuff" that makes a computer simulation "feel real" to a real pilot is quite a challenge.

    But, most of all, I REALLY want to know who hijacked Buckler's atavar. Come on, 'fess up to your "good work". We are having bigtime fun now !

    OK, I just read this again. Forget all that stuff. I'm 68. I've been retired 14 years.
    It is definitely time to get back to golfing, 4-wheeling, target shooting, and mountain hiking with my dogs.

  12. #32
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    buckler was caught in an outright lie about his shooting experience, which I reported to the Moderators.
    That's why he was closed-down.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    buckler was caught in an outright lie about his shooting experience, which I reported to the Moderators.
    That's why he was closed-down.
    OK Steve, I can certainly buy that. Sure makes sense about "Buckler" and his personal problems and his comments to posts.
    I still really, REALLY want to know who hijacked his avatar. Come on, "someone" needs to 'fess up.

  14. #34
    VAMarine's Avatar
    VAMarine is online now Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanP_from_AZ View Post
    I still really, REALLY want to know who hijacked his avatar. Come on, "someone" needs to 'fess up.

    I am SHOCKED that you would think someone here would hi-jack an avatar, SHOCKED!!!!!

    As to "Buckler" just google "Gunkid" this clown just got out of prison and is one of the internet's biggest trolls/frauds.

  15. #35
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    I am SHOCKED that you would think someone here would hi-jack an avatar, SHOCKED!!!!!
    OK, "ferris bueller, BUELLER" ???
    Or, alternately, the Captain Louis Renault Award.
    "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DEG6BWgp0"

    'Common, somewhere there is a turkey in the background who is going to 'fess up.
    So, "VA" you HAVE to follow your creed. 'fess up"

    "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I WILL...

    My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. WE WILL HIT...

    My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. WE WILL...

    Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.

    So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace."


    OK, that's it, 'fess up. VAMarine. 'fess up. I have your six covered.

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