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  1. #26
    buckler's Avatar
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    anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.

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  3. #27
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    Make up your own mind but I wouldn't own one, I just can't figure out what purpose it serves. Anyhow here's a good video to watch on them . Enjoy.

    YouTube - ‪The Judge‬‏

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckler View Post
    anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.
    What do you mean by agent? You have issues.

  5. #29
    GunByte is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    Assassins would love this weapon. With the shot shells: no ballistics and no spent shells. You'd have the CSI boys scratching their heads.

    Other than that, I don't see much advantage to it. The fire power/size is equalled with a .40 caliber Glock and the Glock has more rounds and quicker reloads.
    Gotta love the logic. Another Glock is the perfect weapon and why waste time on anything else post. My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any. There is a place and purpose for all guns. I remember when Glocks first hit the market and they were sneered at as cheap plastic junk that shot a weak 9mm round and would never be accepted by those who understood guns. Heck, it was not too long ago that the .40 was called a solution without a problem by people just like you and now look were we are.

  6. #30
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunByte View Post
    ...My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any...
    Frequently when two different samples of a semi-auto pistol malfunction in the hands of the same shooter, it is more likely attributable to the user's technique, than it is to the pistols' mechanics.
    Are you absolutely certain that the problem was that of the Glocks?

  7. #31
    sonja is offline Junior Member
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    One thing we are sure the judge excels at is pumping up the bottom line for Taurus.

    As far as Glock goes -- I happen to own a few -- once took an old friend shooting. He was an experienced pistol shooter - but used techniques from 40 years ago. He wanted to try my Glock 17. It failed to eject, or failed to load with EVERY shot. I explained all about "Glock Wristing" -- he took umbrage, asking if I - a mere woman - was telling HIM, an "experienced shooter", how to shoot?

    Of course, I wanted to enjoy my time at the range -- backed off -- and allowed him to believe the Glock is a nasty, useless gun. The fact I shot magazine after magazine without any issues did not seem to sway him. It was an interesting experience.

    After that, whenever he came to town for a visit -- we never took him shooting again -- nor would we.

  8. #32
    DickO's Avatar
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    For what it's worth... I purchased a Judge a little over a year ago after talking to one of the fellas working in the firearms section of an army PX. Told him I was wanting something for house protection but didn't want to be shooting thru the walls either (I have a long modular with bedrooms lined up). He suggested the Judge and I thought (and yes I'm a newbie handgun user) that it sounded like a reasonable tradeoff.

    I bought the gun and some home defense 410's(Winchester Elite PDX1) and some .45 long colt's(Winchester Super X 255gr Lead round nose). Waited till my more knowldegeable "kids" showed up for a holiday and brought in their "arsenals" and then did some shooting with it. For me, the Judge is truly a handful (or two, depending); the jolt I initially experienced wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, even in my short stubby-fingered hand, but it was powerful. I shot mainly just to get use to the gun.

    Later on, using home-made targets on several ocassions, I've found the the Judge is at least reasonably accurate. Firing from approximately 15 to 20 yards at a 2x2 target with the 410's I could hit the target each time with at least the pellets being closer to center than away. Same with the 45's. Not scientific but served to let me know that should suffice in the house. My main complaint with the Judge is that the recoil "bites" my RH(gunhand) middle finger just above the middle nuckle with the rear of the trigger guard. Haven't found a solution to that yet...

    I've since read many articles on this gun, some 'good' and some 'very bad'. Maybe ignorance was bliss in my case? At any rate, I have changed the loading of the gun to one
    .410 shell to be followed by four .45's as was suggested in one of the articles. Although I really fail to see how anyone (no matter their size and fortitude) could endure 5 of the .410's, if I were to use them. Hopefully I'll never have to find out one way or the other.

  9. #33
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    ...Then, what's the one .410 load for?

    If you intend to follow-up with four rounds of .45 LC, why not just shoot five rounds of .45 LC?
    And if you decide to do that, then why use the Judge? Any .45 LC or .45 ACP revolver would be more accurate and less clumsy.

  10. #34
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    I've heard from all kinds of "experts" on this site and others and have discerned that the idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further (if not putting them down initially). The next four would be for finishing whatever it was that got started. I tend to be the optimist and hope that the first blast would be the end of it all. I know, there are some macho pro football tackle sized villians out there whom the .410 might not phase. But for the most part, a person isn't going to enjoy getting hit by it from 10 to 15 feet away (and it's my guess they'll be hurt bad enough to quit). And if it's one of those types that takes the time to get ticked off about it, that'll be time enough for the next four.

    Now, I know I'm not an expert weapons handler, or a crack shot, or combat trained like a lot of the folks around here but I am at least proficient the one handgun I do have, and can point it straight enough to hit someone 15 to 20 feet away from me (and no, I don't have 10,000 rounds on target to prove anything). Yes, I know there are all kinds of extenuating circumstances... but I'm naive enough to make an educated guess that a thief in my house is going to be a tad bit more nervous than I am and that will give me at least some semblance of an advantage in the situation. I'm not 100% sure... I haven't had to shoot anyone yet... in any situation. Would be nice to hear from all those who "have" had to fend off a home invader and what their actions and reactions were.

  11. #35
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickO View Post
    ...[T]he idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further...
    I strongly suggest that you re-think your strategy.
    If you really need to shoot someone, it is not as a deterrent. It is to quickly end the fight before you get hurt, or someone about whom you care gets hurt.
    If there is no need to immediately kill your opponent, you should not fire a shot. Indeed, you probably shouldn't even present the weapon.

    So, OK, you wound the guy. Now he's really, really upset at you, and he's right on top of you. You are going to suffer, and probably die. Nice work!
    He'll start on your loved ones next.

    Do some careful rethinking.

  12. #36
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    The Judge and Governor what to say about them. As a survival tool they would be great. The ability to fire a duel role of short range game getter and then have a potent .45 LC cartridge for bigger game or SD would be great. Dual caliber survival rifles have been around a long time used by civilian and military alike.
    In regards to a SD weapon I think the original intent/marketing was the idea to cover multiple bases with one gun. The shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon and the large caliber revolver will stop whatever threat there is. Were they right? Not sure.

    Playing on a couple notions that you do not have to aim a shotgun just point in the general direction and shotguns don't over penetrate/use bird shot for home defense folks this fills that void. I have fired a couple of them and at close range the SD .410 buckshot load could/would be lethal to an intruder however at longer ranges you would have to know exactly what the gun patterned like with a particular load. Once you fired that round with multiple projectiles a miss could be devastating to the wrong person. The .45 Colt has been around a longtime and is a very good SD round for those that favor a big slower moving bullet.

    You still have to aim a shotgun. Generally speaking out of an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel (The typical barrel found on a HD/police issue shotgun) the pattern will spread about one inch for every one yard traveled. This of course can be changed by choke tubes and the type of load. Bird shot fired from a shotgun at bedroom ranges may be as little at three inches in diameter and has the tendency to force it's way through a wall. The front portion of the shot charge destroys the barrier and the tail end goes right through the same hole. If you were close enough a hit with a full load of bird shot could mean a bad day for the receiver but would it stop them? A handgun firing a shot cartridge would/could increase hit potential but you still have to aim. I honestly do not know what the pattern would be on one of the Judges it would all depend on the load and distance.

    The two words you have to understand are lethality and incapacitation. Yes a load of shot fired from a handgun could be lethal but it may not incapacitate the threat. There are many documented cases of people that received lethal wounds but kept on coming. Yes they later bled out at the hospital or 2 minutes later in the yard but in that two minutes they killed or injured the victim.

    DickO, Steve is correct. If it comes down to a lethal force encounter you are not shooting to deter, wound or otherwise scare the bad guy away. The purpose of you drawing and firing your firearm is to stop the threat. The same thing with warning shots the idea, at least in the old days, was to give the person that moment of pause before you used lethal force. Whatever goes up must come down so to speak. In today's liability conscious world you are responsible for every round you fire.

    I don't know if I answered the question or just added fuel to the fire. The gun I did fire if I remember correctly had a pretty stout recoil with the .410 SD load was pretty stout. The guns even in the short barrel versions are pretty big. Whether you have a .22 rifle or a .410 handgun train to use it to the best of your ability.

  13. #37
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    Like I said... Would be nice to hear from all those who have been in that situation before and how they handled the situation. Speculation is great to talk about (we all do that) but doesn't prove anything.

  14. #38
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    It is not necessary to actually "see the elephant," to have a pretty good idea about what would happen when the fight starts.
    The one time that my own home was about to be subject to a pretty serious invasion, the mere intimation that I was armed was enough to defuse the attempt. One of our sheriff's deputies handled the follow-up.
    The one time that I actually needed to present a weapon, maneuver tactically, and prepare to inflict damage, the person who had begun to attack me wisely left the area while I was maneuvering on him.

    I am moved to quote, "There is none so blind as those who will not see."

  15. #39
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    Thanks... For making my point. Most thieves don't "want" to get hurt and tend to shy away when running into what they least expect.

  16. #40
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    OK, DickO, you're right.
    So, according to you, all you need is an empty gun, since you'll never need to fire it. That certainly will keep you from shooting through any interior walls, per your original post.

    I'm left with only one question: What did you want from the members of this forum, when you posted your original essay? Were you looking for validation for your purchase and your proposed tactics, or were you just making a statement?

  17. #41
    EternalDragon is offline Junior Member
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    Well, I own a Judge.

    I am considering a 9x18 Mak. as a summer CCW. It is a bit bigger than a .380 and seems
    to have the same fps as the .45 LC in the Judge. (12 rounds) Many carry a .380 for personal defense.

    Would you say a 6-7 shot .380 is not a good weapon for self defense? The ability to throw
    10-17 rounds of 9mm or .40 does not equal precise kill shots. Nor do you really need that
    many rounds.

    Anyway, I have heard of a few incidents where .410 buck shot from the Judge stopped or
    killed the attacker. One incident the woman fired bird shot at the guy and he ran even though
    he had a gun as well.

    I've shot the gun, seen ballistics tests in gel and the Judge with Federal .410 000 buck passed
    the penetration tests.

    I can keep the .45LC on the chest area of a target at 50 yards. I've shot a possum with the
    PDX shell. Did not hit it with the disks (dark, aimed too low) but hit it with the bb's. It has not
    been back since.

    It's a great FIREARM that can use various rounds and will defend you just fine.

  18. #42
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalDragon View Post
    ...I am considering a 9x18 Mak. as a summer CCW. It is a bit bigger than a .380 and seems to have the same fps as the .45 LC in the Judge...
    Having "the same fps" as the .45 LC does not translate into having the same fight-stopping power. Far from it.
    Bullet frontal area and mass are also equally critical criteria, and in that case the 9mm-diameter Makarov bullet falls very short.


    Quote Originally Posted by EternalDragon View Post
    Many carry a .380 for personal defense. Would you say a 6-7 shot .380 is not a good weapon for self defense? The ability to throw 10-17 rounds...does not equal precise kill shots. Nor do you really need that many rounds...
    My wife and I both carry .380 ACP semi-auto pistols. Hers is a "six-shooter," while mine fires eight. The .380 is a satisfactory defense weapon, if, and only if, you are a very good, reflexive pistol shooter with lots of experience. Does that describe you? Honestly?
    And about not needing that many rounds: Have you ever heard of anyone who was in an actual gunfight, who later said: "Well, I guess I was carrying too much ammunition!"? Well, neither have I.


    Quote Originally Posted by EternalDragon View Post
    ...I have heard of a few incidents where .410 buck shot from the Judge stopped or killed the attacker...
    Please give references, or quote chapter and verse.
    (I don't believe it.)

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayhawk2 View Post
    Have any of you ever even tried out the Judge?With Federal handgun 000 Buckshot?
    Until you own one and use the "right" ammo in it,well let's just say give me the Judge
    with 000 Buckshot and the bad guy is in a world of trouble if in my house.Put the right ammo
    in it and it's awesome.I have shot the Judge many times and I cannot tell you the pattern it holds and the damage it can do.Federal handgun 000 Buckshot and Remington Long Range #6's.
    Good patterns.Awesome gun.
    Question. If you were in the market for a HD shotgun, would a 410 be your first choice?

  20. #44
    paratrooper is online now Senior Member
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    First and foremost, the Taurus Judge is a joke......plain and simple, but it's still going to appeal to some.

    Second, if I find the need to point a gun at someone and subsequently shoot them, it won't be to wound them.

  21. #45
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    The Judge is a brilliant gimmick that takes advantage of the belief by the uninitiated that the .410 is almost as devastating as a 12 gauge shotgun round fired from a full sized shotgun. It is not. A .410 shell loaded near the maximum with No. 6 shot is an adequate round for small game, when fired from a 28" full choke shotgun, at short range. Put that same round in a pistol with a rifled barrel, it becomes an adequate snake or rat load at a distance of about 10 feet. Beyond that, the rifled barrel causes a hole in the pattern that could leave a squirrel or bird completely untouched with a perfectly aimed shot.

    Would it stop the average human predator? Maybe...probably, if that attacker was not drugged up, or not very committed. But, if it did stop him, it would be due to pain and fear, rather than an incapacitating injury, unless it blinded him. Does that make it a good choice for self defense? No, it puts it in the category of a lot of other weak or unwieldy weapons - better than nothing, but not very confidence inspiring.

    Of course, if the attacker is as ignorant as the defender about its capabilities, he might die of fright, or run away screaming like a little girl.

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    ..never mind.

  23. #47
    Pistol Pete is offline Junior Member
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    Guys it is a snake gun. .410 for crawly snakes, .45 for 2 legged snakes. I'd rather have a Blackhawk but if the Judge turns you on, why not. I'd buy the S&W if I just had to have one. I'm not a Taurus fan.

  24. #48
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete View Post
    Guys it is a snake gun. .410 for crawly snakes, .45 for 2 legged snakes. I'd rather have a Blackhawk but if the Judge turns you on, why not. I'd buy the S&W if I just had to have one. I'm not a Taurus fan.
    Re-read Bisley's last post.
    It isn't a "snake gun." Not for crawly ones, nor for two-legged ones.

    There are better .45s. There are better snake guns, too.

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