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  1. #21
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Chacun son gut.
    I sincerely hope that your Judge, and the Federal loads you have for it, provide you with all of the performance you may require.
    And I hope, as I do for everyone, that you never have to use it in a fight.

  2. #22
    walleye is offline Junior Member
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    From everything I have read, here and elsewhere, I will never own a Taurus. Too many people say they have had trouble both with the gun and the service. Too many to dispute. I am sure there are many happy owners, but the reports are what they are....poor.

  3. #23
    lthobbes is offline Junior Member
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    I just traded My road bike for a Judge

    I certainly did not pay for the bike what I would have paid for the Judge so I am extremely happy with my trade...

    I have read a whole lot of trash talk about the Judge on this forum. However I look at guns like tools in a toolbox. I think this pistol is kind of mission specific...

    For example.. I could see it being used very well for taking out snakes if you are walking or 4wheeling through the bush.. (with feild loads of course)

    If you accidentally hit a deer or other large animale on the road and needed to put it out of it's misery I think a slug or a .45 long colt would do the job well...

    For everyday carry I like my Glock. I would not really want to dispatch a snake or large animal with my Glock... (but I would if I had to)

    I am curious though- does anyone know which one would have more velocity- a .410 slug or a .45 long? I'm curious which would be better for large animal destruction.

    Thanks for the insight

  4. #24
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Most .45 "Long" Colt loads are superior to .410 slug loads.

    The Colt round fires a 250-grain bullet at about 900fps.
    The .410 slug load is about 100 grains at about 1,800fps (depending on its maker).

  5. #25
    SMann is offline Member
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    Kinda thinking out loud here but, if you want a long gun then buy a long gun. If you want a handgun then buy a handgun. If you want both in one gun your choosing a weapon that will outperform nothing and if you're gonna do that at least don't choose the Taurus over the S&W.

  6. #26
    buckler's Avatar
    buckler is offline Banned
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    anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.

  7. #27
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    Make up your own mind but I wouldn't own one, I just can't figure out what purpose it serves. Anyhow here's a good video to watch on them . Enjoy.

    YouTube - ‪The Judge‬‏

  8. #28
    ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckler View Post
    anchor for small boat? not really heavy enough to tie the feet of a suitable agent and sink him.
    What do you mean by agent? You have issues.

  9. #29
    GunByte is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    Assassins would love this weapon. With the shot shells: no ballistics and no spent shells. You'd have the CSI boys scratching their heads.

    Other than that, I don't see much advantage to it. The fire power/size is equalled with a .40 caliber Glock and the Glock has more rounds and quicker reloads.
    Gotta love the logic. Another Glock is the perfect weapon and why waste time on anything else post. My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any. There is a place and purpose for all guns. I remember when Glocks first hit the market and they were sneered at as cheap plastic junk that shot a weak 9mm round and would never be accepted by those who understood guns. Heck, it was not too long ago that the .40 was called a solution without a problem by people just like you and now look were we are.

  10. #30
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunByte View Post
    ...My last two Glocks jammed out of the box which soured me on Glock Perfection and I no longer own any...
    Frequently when two different samples of a semi-auto pistol malfunction in the hands of the same shooter, it is more likely attributable to the user's technique, than it is to the pistols' mechanics.
    Are you absolutely certain that the problem was that of the Glocks?

  11. #31
    sonja is offline Junior Member
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    One thing we are sure the judge excels at is pumping up the bottom line for Taurus.

    As far as Glock goes -- I happen to own a few -- once took an old friend shooting. He was an experienced pistol shooter - but used techniques from 40 years ago. He wanted to try my Glock 17. It failed to eject, or failed to load with EVERY shot. I explained all about "Glock Wristing" -- he took umbrage, asking if I - a mere woman - was telling HIM, an "experienced shooter", how to shoot?

    Of course, I wanted to enjoy my time at the range -- backed off -- and allowed him to believe the Glock is a nasty, useless gun. The fact I shot magazine after magazine without any issues did not seem to sway him. It was an interesting experience.

    After that, whenever he came to town for a visit -- we never took him shooting again -- nor would we.

  12. #32
    DickO's Avatar
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    For what it's worth... I purchased a Judge a little over a year ago after talking to one of the fellas working in the firearms section of an army PX. Told him I was wanting something for house protection but didn't want to be shooting thru the walls either (I have a long modular with bedrooms lined up). He suggested the Judge and I thought (and yes I'm a newbie handgun user) that it sounded like a reasonable tradeoff.

    I bought the gun and some home defense 410's(Winchester Elite PDX1) and some .45 long colt's(Winchester Super X 255gr Lead round nose). Waited till my more knowldegeable "kids" showed up for a holiday and brought in their "arsenals" and then did some shooting with it. For me, the Judge is truly a handful (or two, depending); the jolt I initially experienced wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, even in my short stubby-fingered hand, but it was powerful. I shot mainly just to get use to the gun.

    Later on, using home-made targets on several ocassions, I've found the the Judge is at least reasonably accurate. Firing from approximately 15 to 20 yards at a 2x2 target with the 410's I could hit the target each time with at least the pellets being closer to center than away. Same with the 45's. Not scientific but served to let me know that should suffice in the house. My main complaint with the Judge is that the recoil "bites" my RH(gunhand) middle finger just above the middle nuckle with the rear of the trigger guard. Haven't found a solution to that yet...

    I've since read many articles on this gun, some 'good' and some 'very bad'. Maybe ignorance was bliss in my case? At any rate, I have changed the loading of the gun to one
    .410 shell to be followed by four .45's as was suggested in one of the articles. Although I really fail to see how anyone (no matter their size and fortitude) could endure 5 of the .410's, if I were to use them. Hopefully I'll never have to find out one way or the other.

  13. #33
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    ...Then, what's the one .410 load for?

    If you intend to follow-up with four rounds of .45 LC, why not just shoot five rounds of .45 LC?
    And if you decide to do that, then why use the Judge? Any .45 LC or .45 ACP revolver would be more accurate and less clumsy.

  14. #34
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    I've heard from all kinds of "experts" on this site and others and have discerned that the idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further (if not putting them down initially). The next four would be for finishing whatever it was that got started. I tend to be the optimist and hope that the first blast would be the end of it all. I know, there are some macho pro football tackle sized villians out there whom the .410 might not phase. But for the most part, a person isn't going to enjoy getting hit by it from 10 to 15 feet away (and it's my guess they'll be hurt bad enough to quit). And if it's one of those types that takes the time to get ticked off about it, that'll be time enough for the next four.

    Now, I know I'm not an expert weapons handler, or a crack shot, or combat trained like a lot of the folks around here but I am at least proficient the one handgun I do have, and can point it straight enough to hit someone 15 to 20 feet away from me (and no, I don't have 10,000 rounds on target to prove anything). Yes, I know there are all kinds of extenuating circumstances... but I'm naive enough to make an educated guess that a thief in my house is going to be a tad bit more nervous than I am and that will give me at least some semblance of an advantage in the situation. I'm not 100% sure... I haven't had to shoot anyone yet... in any situation. Would be nice to hear from all those who "have" had to fend off a home invader and what their actions and reactions were.

  15. #35
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickO View Post
    ...[T]he idea is to have the first shot scattered just a bit to at least to deter someone from going any further...
    I strongly suggest that you re-think your strategy.
    If you really need to shoot someone, it is not as a deterrent. It is to quickly end the fight before you get hurt, or someone about whom you care gets hurt.
    If there is no need to immediately kill your opponent, you should not fire a shot. Indeed, you probably shouldn't even present the weapon.

    So, OK, you wound the guy. Now he's really, really upset at you, and he's right on top of you. You are going to suffer, and probably die. Nice work!
    He'll start on your loved ones next.

    Do some careful rethinking.

  16. #36
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    The Judge and Governor what to say about them. As a survival tool they would be great. The ability to fire a duel role of short range game getter and then have a potent .45 LC cartridge for bigger game or SD would be great. Dual caliber survival rifles have been around a long time used by civilian and military alike.
    In regards to a SD weapon I think the original intent/marketing was the idea to cover multiple bases with one gun. The shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon and the large caliber revolver will stop whatever threat there is. Were they right? Not sure.

    Playing on a couple notions that you do not have to aim a shotgun just point in the general direction and shotguns don't over penetrate/use bird shot for home defense folks this fills that void. I have fired a couple of them and at close range the SD .410 buckshot load could/would be lethal to an intruder however at longer ranges you would have to know exactly what the gun patterned like with a particular load. Once you fired that round with multiple projectiles a miss could be devastating to the wrong person. The .45 Colt has been around a longtime and is a very good SD round for those that favor a big slower moving bullet.

    You still have to aim a shotgun. Generally speaking out of an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel (The typical barrel found on a HD/police issue shotgun) the pattern will spread about one inch for every one yard traveled. This of course can be changed by choke tubes and the type of load. Bird shot fired from a shotgun at bedroom ranges may be as little at three inches in diameter and has the tendency to force it's way through a wall. The front portion of the shot charge destroys the barrier and the tail end goes right through the same hole. If you were close enough a hit with a full load of bird shot could mean a bad day for the receiver but would it stop them? A handgun firing a shot cartridge would/could increase hit potential but you still have to aim. I honestly do not know what the pattern would be on one of the Judges it would all depend on the load and distance.

    The two words you have to understand are lethality and incapacitation. Yes a load of shot fired from a handgun could be lethal but it may not incapacitate the threat. There are many documented cases of people that received lethal wounds but kept on coming. Yes they later bled out at the hospital or 2 minutes later in the yard but in that two minutes they killed or injured the victim.

    DickO, Steve is correct. If it comes down to a lethal force encounter you are not shooting to deter, wound or otherwise scare the bad guy away. The purpose of you drawing and firing your firearm is to stop the threat. The same thing with warning shots the idea, at least in the old days, was to give the person that moment of pause before you used lethal force. Whatever goes up must come down so to speak. In today's liability conscious world you are responsible for every round you fire.

    I don't know if I answered the question or just added fuel to the fire. The gun I did fire if I remember correctly had a pretty stout recoil with the .410 SD load was pretty stout. The guns even in the short barrel versions are pretty big. Whether you have a .22 rifle or a .410 handgun train to use it to the best of your ability.

  17. #37
    DickO's Avatar
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    Like I said... Would be nice to hear from all those who have been in that situation before and how they handled the situation. Speculation is great to talk about (we all do that) but doesn't prove anything.

  18. #38
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    It is not necessary to actually "see the elephant," to have a pretty good idea about what would happen when the fight starts.
    The one time that my own home was about to be subject to a pretty serious invasion, the mere intimation that I was armed was enough to defuse the attempt. One of our sheriff's deputies handled the follow-up.
    The one time that I actually needed to present a weapon, maneuver tactically, and prepare to inflict damage, the person who had begun to attack me wisely left the area while I was maneuvering on him.

    I am moved to quote, "There is none so blind as those who will not see."

  19. #39
    DickO's Avatar
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    Thanks... For making my point. Most thieves don't "want" to get hurt and tend to shy away when running into what they least expect.

  20. #40
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    OK, DickO, you're right.
    So, according to you, all you need is an empty gun, since you'll never need to fire it. That certainly will keep you from shooting through any interior walls, per your original post.

    I'm left with only one question: What did you want from the members of this forum, when you posted your original essay? Were you looking for validation for your purchase and your proposed tactics, or were you just making a statement?

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