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  1. #1
    maddmatt02's Avatar
    maddmatt02 is offline Junior Member
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    getting my first handgun

    alright, Ive decided to get a handgun, but have a few questions.

    I am looking for something to conceal

    I am moving to vegas in about a year and have been looking for jobs as security gaurds while I finish up my schooling there

    the job postings Ive seen, if they are an armed gaurd, you must posses your own gun. I was just looking at something like a walther P22 just to mess around with, being that ammo is so cheap. but now that I plan on it being used partly for the job, Im thinking either .40 S&W or 9MM.

    I was wondering if anyone knew if most security firms have strict guidelines as to which caliber of gun you can carry? barrel length or anything? Im guessing on duty the gun will be visible, but like I mentioned, Id also like to conceal it off duty. can you carry the same weapon on/off duty?

    what guns should I be looking at. one I was thinking about was the ruger SR9/P95, beretta PX4, Glock model 26 or 27. most are around the high 3 to low 500 range in price, and I know theres better guns for more money, but Id like to not spend a ton if I can.

    what guns should I look at? Im going to the range soon to rent/shoot some of their guns to get ideas. I do have fairly large hands, and I know those guns I listed arent really small and easy to conceal, seems the small guns I usually find are .380's.

    and if I get a ccw in my state, what happens if I go to another state for vacation? do I have to get a ccw for every state I want to carry in?

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  3. #2
    rccola712's Avatar
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    the sticky thread on the new to handguns section of the forum should help you, heres the link:

    http://handgunforum.net/showthread.php?t=14198

    i do believe when you take your ccw class they'll cover the vacations and such, but im guessing that you wont be able to carry concealed. but dont take my word for it as im by no means an expert.

    www.handgunlaw.us might help you out some

    hope this helps! welcome to the forum!

  4. #3
    PhilR. is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt02 View Post
    what guns should I look at?


    The ones that your future employer will allow you to carry on duty. I don't see how anyone here can answer that. Once you find out what action type, size, caliber you are allowed to use, come back here and let us know.

    and if I get a ccw in my state, what happens if I go to another state for vacation? do I have to get a ccw for every state I want to carry in?

    There are reciprocity laws between a great many of the states that allow concealed carry. There are many internet sites that details this information.
    PhilR.

  5. #4
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    I know you wouldnt specifically know "which" would be allowed. I was just curious to see if some of you knew if most companies are either "carry what you got", or "carry what we want you to carry" ?

  6. #5
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    Im going to the range this sunday to shoot the G26, they dont have a 27, so I wont get to decide what caliber, but i think if I like the 26, id get the 27 without shooting it, and if .40 is too much, I could get the barrel/mag to shoot 9mm. from what ive read the 27 can be converted to 9mm and 357sig, but the 26 is stuck at 9mm for good.

    is there any subcompact that there is a 22LR conversion for just practicing at the range? but does shooting with a 22LR and carrying with .40, is it really that beneficial? or is just getting the aiming/trigger pull down the majority of it and the increased recoil of the .40 wont be a big deal if you are used to the gun while shooting 22LR?

    I was looking at the ruger LCP and I really like the price, but from alot ive read most people dont think .380 is enough.

    I think Ill just get a subcompact I want now, carry it until I go job hunting, and while off duty, and then if I need a different caliber, larger frame, etc, Ill just buy a 2nd.

    and is there any websites that have pics of guns all csi style against a framing square or something so you can get real measurments to see just how much bigger a G23 is vs a G27, etc..

  7. #6
    Benevolentshooter's Avatar
    Benevolentshooter is offline Junior Member
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    you just need to check with states to see if they are reciprocle or not. I know that when i travel i can leave fl with my gun on my side and drive up through georgia tennessee kentucky and into ohio with out braking any laws. So, just check with whatever states you are traveling to or through.

    As for the gun that you should buy, it looks to me like you have done all your homework. I dont think there is realy anything for anyone to tell you that you dont already know. Now you just have to get out there and look at the guns feel them in your hands shoot them and see what you like best

  8. #7
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    I can carry it with it visible here with no permit at all, and with a ccw I can carry any kind of weapon I want concealed except for nunchucks. but if I drive into CA, I have to lock ammo and lock gun seperately and put one in the back and one in the front. thats at least what the guy at the gun shop told me. only other place I drive into often is mexico, and I know you cant carry into mexico so its pretty limited on where Ill be able to carry on my vacations.

  9. #8
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    The sub compacts I'd say wont do you much good for work. If it's an armed guard job then a duty sized weapon would probably what they are looking for. Unless this is some plain clothes bodyguard type thing(?)

  10. #9
    Bisley's Avatar
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    I agree.

    If your ambition is to be a security guard, and you have to furnish your own sidearm, go with a full size. They are easier to shoot accurately, and if you don't have to bother with concealment, they just make more sense. It takes a lot of practice to be any good with a small handgun, and with ammo prices, you likely will not practice as much as you would need to, to master a subcompact.

  11. #10
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    well, I have just decided to get what I want now, and get a second for work later on if needed. and actually, its not quite my ambition to be a security gaurd. Im moving to vegas in about a year after I finish cc and transfer to a 4 yr university. I just need a weekend/night job, and there seemed to be alot of those jobs, and it is something i like better than being a card dealer or something. and some of them I have found are for some of the clubs there and Id be in a suit and tie, so Im guessing those jobs Id be carrying concealed. I do think it would be cool one day to get a little higher up in the casino security game, like someone in the office running cameras and tracking people thorugh the casino, etc.. but not sure what I wanna do as a career right now.

    I might have found myself a little problem with getting a ccw though so I gotta get that figured out first.

  12. #11
    clanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt02 View Post
    I can carry it with it visible here with no permit at all, and with a ccw I can carry any kind of weapon I want concealed except for nunchucks. but if I drive into CA, I have to lock ammo and lock gun seperately and put one in the back and one in the front. thats at least what the guy at the gun shop told me. only other place I drive into often is mexico, and I know you cant carry into mexico so its pretty limited on where Ill be able to carry on my vacations.

    Ca: If you have a conceable handgun, it must be locked in a container during transport.

    "California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

    The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1."

    More:


    "4. POSSESSION AND TRANSPORTATION OF CONCEALED WEAPONS
    Carrying a Concealed Handgun Without a License on One's Person or Concealed in a Vehicle
    Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he
    or she does any of the following:
    Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
    revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
    capable of being concealed upon the person.
    Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
    any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it
    California Firearms Laws 2007 29
    applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code 12025(f).)


    Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following:
    Any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is
    temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited from owning or possessing firearms
    pursuant to Penal Code sections 12021 or 12021.1 or section 8100 or 8101 of the Welfare and
    Institutions Code, may carry, either openly or concealed, anywhere within his or her place of
    business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by him or her any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. A permit or license to purchase,
    own, possess, keep, or carry is not required under these circumstances. (Penal Code 12026.)
    The transportation or carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
    concealed upon the person by any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years
    who resides or is temporarily within this state, and is not within the excepted classes
    prescribed by Penal Code Sections 12021 or 12021.1 or Welfare and Institutions Code sections
    8100 or 8103, provided that the following applies:
    - the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container
    in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment, and;
    - when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the
    firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried. (Penal Code
    12026.1.)"


    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

    The whole 'ammo in the vicinty' thing is subject to conjecture. There is no law I can find saying you have to keep the ammo in a seperate or locked container. I keep my pistols unloaded in a lockable soft-bag, then that goes in my range back with the ammo and I am in compliance according to my local PD.

    In Ca. you can open carry unloaded in many places/while driving with a loaded mag on your belt.
    I do not recomend it as a bunch of kook's out here pushed the issue in common area's like malls, stores and other private property and used the 2A as justification. You will get twisted up by the cops in SoCal like this.

    You need a permit to CCW in Ca.
    Ca. does not recognise any other State's CCW permits.
    CCW w/o a permit means BIG BIG trouble.

    Also- new residents:

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/ab991.php

    Mexico: do not take guns to Mexico- period. It is not allowed unless you are on a hunt, get the propper permits etc., et al. I don't recomend anyone go to Mexico right now unless on a cruise or on some group outing. Definitely do not take firearms.

  13. #12
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    yeah, I saw that AZ honors CA's permit, but you have to be a CA resident to get a permit there, so thats out. unless I use my uncles address like I live there some of the year or something, not sure what kind of penalties that could bring though.

  14. #13
    clanger's Avatar
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    Don't even risk it, bud. A CCW violation here will follow you around.

    You have to apply to the Sherrif or PD in the area you live in, prove residency, fill out forms, prove your life is in immediate danger, get investigated, bend over many times then qualify on the range then wait 6 mos after spending around a grand. 99.9% do not get approved in metropolitan areas.

  15. #14
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    I get the rest, but how/why are you supposed to prove your life is in immediate danger? isnt the point of carrying that you dont plan on being immediate danger but if you ever find yourself in that situation you can now do something about it?

    because out of almost 26 years so far, my lifes never been in immediate danger... or do you just recite some facts about the number of murders/rapes/etc.. that have happened in your county recently?

  16. #15
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    also, im going to move to nevada in a year, handgun.us shows that nevada issues non resident permits. arizona where i live now honors all states permits. and it shows that a permit in nevada costs around 100 bucks. I wouldnt be breaking any laws getting a NV ccw, and carrying it in AZ would I? or do you have to have a ccw in your home state before applying for non resident out of state permits?

  17. #16
    clanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt02 View Post
    I get the rest, but how/why are you supposed to prove your life is in immediate danger? isnt the point of carrying that you dont plan on being immediate danger but if you ever find yourself in that situation you can now do something about it?

    because out of almost 26 years so far, my lifes never been in immediate danger... or do you just recite some facts about the number of murders/rapes/etc.. that have happened in your county recently?
    If you are a normal Joe in the Metro areas, unless you have a restraining order against a violent offender they wont let you carry a gun.

    Bad hood? They'll tell ya don't go out at night. The list goes on of counter points.

    Ya have to prove 'good cause', in a 'may issue' area like this.

    Why? The crooks like easy targets and get uppity when they have to work under hazardous conditions. Trust me, they complain and get heard around here.

    A couple hundred miles from here it's completely different.

  18. #17
    Speedsteel is offline Junior Member
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    First Handgun?

    MaddMatt,

    Many things to consider, primary application? looks like duty as security?
    Personal defense, competition, plinking, fun?, and appears your seeking carry permit.

    How much training will you do? Semi auto means more training to be proficient?
    Secure storage? especially if shared housing or children?

    Good holster will be a must for duty or concealed?

    Just a few for starters.

    A revolver is easier to train apply and store, pistol offers higher capacity for most models.
    Cant go wrong with a S&W or Ruger revolver, and the Glock or name brand striker type autos.
    Have heard great things about the newer Springfield XD-M "match" models.

  19. #18
    maddmatt02's Avatar
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    I will shoot it as often as I can. where I live right now, if I can legally buy a gun, to carry it legally, all I have to do is get a belt holster, and carry it visible with nothing else required. but Id rather not have everyone.

    also, I asked a couple of cops I talked to once about the laws shooting at here on my property, and they said you have to be 1/4 mile away from any other structures in any direction, I almost passedout of 360, theres prob ably over 270 with everything her away, but theirs 3 houses something like 1/8th in certain directions. Ive still shot the occasional rattler that finds its way to my porch, but I line myself up so nothings behind it, and I dont think buckshot really gets very far anyways if a few pellets richet off the dirt or a rock or something. and no neighbors have ever said a word to me or called anyone out here because of it.

    but anyways they told me of this mountain a ways off the highway that you can go out to and shoot at the base of it.

    and one of the reasons ive been thinking about carrying is kinda weird... movies... lol like wrong turn, hitcher, hills have eyes, chainsaw massacre, four brothers, disturbia, etc... I mean theres so many of them out there where if the main character had been armed it probably would have been a 5 minute movie or less. for the last 4 years, ive been saying out loud to my girl while watching em. "thats why I want a gun" and I know a few are fiction, or the truth just stretched a bit, etc... but it did happen once, still happens now and then, and I see no reason in being able to stop that from happening to me.

  20. #19
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Well, there's bad people in the world and I can understand wanting to protect yourself. I do hope you understand that about any SD situation you might find yourself in will be nothing like a movie. For one thing it's a whole lot faster and there is no one saying cut then you get to go away a hero.

    You will be looked at as if under a microscope. The officers that come t the scene, the detectives that come later, and the lawyers that can come after them leads to a long unhappy road where although you were just trying to save your life some might not see it that way and you will have a lot of explaining to do. You will be grateful for any witness that you can find in hopes that they see you as the victim. Not the perpetrator. And even if you are cleared in any criminal action civil action might well come after. All for something that in your mind seemed like forever but was probably just a minute or less.

    Don't misunderstand me. I'm all for anyone that can get trained and carries a weapon . I believe an armed society is a polite society. But anything that happens weather it involved your weapon or not will in some way involve you weapon. Because you are still the man with a gun. Even if you go to a restaurant and your shirt moves a little while sitting down and some old woman sees it and calls police. You have done nothing wrong. it you are still the man with a gun.

    And that's all just concealed carry. Open carry and everyone sees your gun. And while you might be allowed there are a lot of people that will see it and say "Hey! That man has a gun!" And they might interpret that as a threat in itself. It's nothing like a movie out there. There are plenty of uneducated, elitist, or otherwise non gun friendly people out there. And every one of them are just waiting for one of us to screw up no matter how little that screw up might be. So they can say I told you so. No one needs a gun and here's another reason why.

    I just thought I'd put that out there. I'm not trying to flame you or anyone in any way. It's just the way the world works for the man with a gun. I wish you the best in finding your weapon and I hope you never have to use it on more than a paper target. All the training is in hopes we never have to use them but if we do then we can. And the training is never really over.

  21. #20
    maddmatt02's Avatar
    maddmatt02 is offline Junior Member
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    well, im not planning on a self defense situation being like it is in the movies, just using it as a reference to show the kind of things that can and do happen to people just out on the road/ minding their own business. and that does suck that if someone comes after you and you shoot em, they/their families then come after you for shooting them... but hopefully a jury will see it my way if it ever came to that. and I dont want to carry it out in the open, if that happens Ill probably leave it visible but in my vehicle, have to check on it but i think thats legal here.

    I do know a story kind of like the situation you mentioned, a friend of a friend back where I used to live, got jumped by another guy with a knife. he ended up getting the knife from the guy and stabbing him. I dont know the exact details like if the guy could have just disarmed him and left and had no need to stab him as well. but he ended up doing 6 months from what I last heard about it.

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