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  1. #21
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    Bullet deviated by skull

    You're absolutely correct. There is an instance in your home state that made Drudge Report where a .380 was shot at a man from dead in front of him. Bullett went around to the rear of the skull and was removed from under the skin. Sorry about the sp. error on homicide. Of the 9 fatalities I worked, 7 utilized a .22lr. I never dismiss a caliber because of what I carry or am partial to. Dead is still dead. But enough, being new here I'll just hope that everyone has a great weekend. I'm on my way to the range.

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  3. #22
    unpecador's Avatar
    unpecador is offline Senior Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40 View Post
    I'm on my way to the range.
    Me too!

  4. #23
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40
    Sorry about the sp. error on homicide.
    No need to apologize. I am a bit OCD with stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40
    I'm on my way to the range.
    I wish I was. I am trying to get out of helping clean the house at the moment.

  5. #24
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40 View Post
    ...Of the 9 fatalities I worked, 7 utilized a .22lr...
    While a .25 (or a .22LR) to the temple is probably not a sure killer, a .22 Short placed and angled carefully at the nape of the neck will do the job, every time.
    So, Scratchshooter, to aid the discussion—and our education—somewhat, where were those seven, 22-caliber bullets placed? Were they "executions" done with careful placement on an immobilized victim, or were they "random" combat hits?
    Also, since it's germane to arguments presented elsewhere, how many of the seven victims continued to fight for a period of time, and how many immediately stopped or dropped?

  6. #25
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    .22lr kills

    Well Steve, the most memorable was from a true Saturday night special so to speak. The reason it was the most memorable was that you rarely respond to a "shot in the head call" and find the victim still mobile. This may support the reasoning that it is not a 1 shot down immediately theory. The victim in question was on his front porch with an obvious, though small hole in his forehead from an RG ( if memory serves me correctly) handgun found in the neighbors kitchen trash can. Seems that he had made a call on the neighbor's wife without invitation or permission for that matter and the neighbor took offense. It didn't help the neighbor's case that both men involved had just made a drug sale and were also arguing over the division of money. Victim was mobile, but non responsive to us and died in about 10 minutes as near as we could tell after he collapsed. EMT's made the call.

    #2 that my old notes describe was a 15 year old boy who was accidently shot with a .22 lr in the head just aft of the ear and the shot came from an older Winchester pump action .22 accounting for much superior velocity of the round and what appeared to be an instant kill.

    #3 and #4 were mutual combatants. One armed with an H&R 9 shot .22 lr and he hit his opponent 4 times. The first victim bled out in the "club" and the opponent was found in the parking lot of the local hospital in the next two hours dead behind the wheel. The deceased at the "Club" had a small semi-auto of non descript make that I do not remember. Neither was an instant kill obviously.

    #5 was the most unfortunate. It started as a response to an accidental shooting call and we found a 15 year old boy with an gunshot to the throat area and cleaning kit scattered about. Seemingly instantaneous death from the scene. After interviewing the kid's friends and family we found that it was a probable suicide, never confirmed, as he had told a friend that it wasn't worth it living as he was not in shape, popular, and could not get the attention of some girl in school. Other than that good kid, great grades, nice family.

    #6 is mostly from memory. Local girl who was known to pedal herself for drugs or money found near Quitman, GA in a pot field with a shot to the back of her head in what appeared to be an execution style killing. Dead where shot, .22 lr. We never found from what.

    #7 was a Police Officer and one of the greatest guys you'd ever want to meet. He was wearing a vest, had a child on the way and I miss him more that I can say. He and a fellow officer made a stop in an alley in a South Georgia college town and two perps exited the suspect vehicle and started shooting handguns at the officers. Bobby probably saved his partner's life by pushing him behind the car door and took a single .22 lr round under the arm in the side of the chest. He was sitting up on the operating table when we got to the ER and talking about how stupid he was. 10 minutes later he was dead as the bullet had bounced around inside his rib cge and caused a lot of damage. More small perforations than could be addressed once his BP started to fall dramatically. Again, not an immediate result, but he's gone none the less. That's my history on the Georgia-Florida line from 25 years ago. The remaining two homicides were with a 9mm and a 12 ga. shotgun. The 9mm did not put the victim down immediately due to shot placement, but did cause enough internal injury coupled with the toxicology report of drugs in the system to result in death. Don't miss that dealer at all. The 12 ga. took the mid section out and was quite immediate. #1 buck if memory serves. I personally have a 12.7 entry and exit in my body from friendly fire at 29 Palms incurred during a live fire field x that was caused by failure to secure a weapon on a Russian tank we inherited from the Israeli's as a result of their quick war earlier. I will not go into it but have discharged my weapon intentionally in the line of duty both as an investigator and as a Marine. I hope this helps in explanation of my observations due to weapons being deployed agressively on live targets. I appreciate the information and tone of this forum and am just an observer who still likes to shoot and believes in CCW for personal defense. If there is any and I mean any way to avoid using the weapon, I will take that course of action. But if I have to use it, I'd like to think I would be prepared and justified in that action. Again, all, have a great weekend. I get my daughter this weekend and we are going to the club tomorrow and shoot some as well. Sorry for the dissertation, kept things as abbreviated as I could. All the best.

    Scratch

  7. #26
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you, Scratchshooter!
    I dunno 'bout everybody else, but I found your information quite valuable.
    And, it didn't change my opinion of the .25 ACP cartridge and the guns that shoot it. (Death isn't the object. Stopping the fight is the object.)

    I'm glad that you survived the 12.7mm hit. I hope it was very peripheral, and not especially disabling.

  8. #27
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Scratch,

    Great post. Thanks for your willingness to share and thanks for your service as a Marine and law enforcement officer.

    Ptarmigan

  9. #28
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    12.7 hit

    In a UH1-B as FAC over a column of tanks headed to the barn after a long, hot, live fire drill. Someone had no secured the pintle mounted 12.7 on the Russian armor. Somehow it discharged and the sole round that struck anything came up through the bottom of the helo and through the seat pan into my posterior, right. Just clipped the hip joint very slightly. Enough so that I have some pretty severe arthritis in it now with a replacement scheduled for this winter, but as they say every day above ground is a blessing. God gives us tomorrow so that today, however bad or trying becomes the past and we have the opportunity to serve others and become a blessing to them. Okay, 'nuff said. Night all, gotta get my daughter in the morning.

  10. #29
    dannyb is offline Junior Member
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    I've heard this attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt, but I'm not sure:

    Yesterday's history, tomorrow's a mystery, but today is a gift, and that's why they call it the present.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40 View Post
    In a UH1-B as FAC over a column of tanks headed to the barn after a long, hot, live fire drill. Someone had no secured the pintle mounted 12.7 on the Russian armor. Somehow it discharged and the sole round that struck anything came up through the bottom of the helo and through the seat pan into my posterior, right. Just clipped the hip joint very slightly. Enough so that I have some pretty severe arthritis in it now with a replacement scheduled for this winter, but as they say every day above ground is a blessing. God gives us tomorrow so that today, however bad or trying becomes the past and we have the opportunity to serve others and become a blessing to them. Okay, 'nuff said. Night all, gotta get my daughter in the morning.

  11. #30
    brifol6111's Avatar
    brifol6111 is offline Junior Member
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    From the weapons I have fired there are a couple that I do not like:

    Beretta 96D DAO .40 S&W = For me because of the longer and heavy trigger pull I could never get used to this pistol and I always threw off my shot.

    Taurus PT145 = I was never very accurate with this pistol, I found it uncomfortable and always shot low.

  12. #31
    JONSCH's Avatar
    JONSCH is offline Junior Member
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    I dont like american guns or revolvers. just realiable ones like HK, Walther,etc.

  13. #32
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchshooter40 View Post
    .25ACP pressed against the temple will do just as thorough a job as a .45 ACP will. .
    I have seen 1st hand a man shot at under 3 feet with a 25 ACP and it bounced off the mans head. I was in a bar in Cincinnati in my more....Well when I used to go to bars..lol. Now I would not want to try that again.

    Just about everyone is gonna want and try and get small in a hurry when/if they hear gunfire no matter what it is...at least at first.

  14. #33
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    My father was a cop. He responded to an attempted suicide with a .25ACP. Contact distance shot to the side of the head. The bullet deflected off the skull and traveled under the scalp behind the head, coming to rest above the opposite ear. Dad reports the scene was bloody, but the ambulance came and hauled the guy to the hospital, where he recovered completely and quickly.

    This does not inspire confidence in .25ACP for me.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

    Donate to the Christian and Stephanie Nielson Recovery fund: http://www.nierecovery.com/.

    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  15. #34
    hideit's Avatar
    hideit is offline Senior Member
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    totally agree with NO on the 25acp
    BUT
    this months american rifelman reports a guy was broken into and he was laying on the sofa and the BG put a gun at his face and the GG pulled out a 25acp from the sofa - 3 bullets and killed him
    BET IT WAS IN THE FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    he got lucky

  16. #35
    unpecador's Avatar
    unpecador is offline Senior Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hideit View Post
    BET IT WAS IN THE FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I'll place my bet on the neck area.

  17. #36
    Idok is offline Junior Member
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    me 2!

  18. #37
    Idok is offline Junior Member
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    oh, and not a fan of hi-point

  19. #38
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idok View Post
    oh, and not a fan of hi-point
    Man..there's just nothing to like about those guns(hi-point). I hear from a few people that they work fine..I just never was around that one time they did
    Last edited by DevilsJohnson; 09-18-2008 at 12:42 AM.

  20. #39
    tekhead1219's Avatar
    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hideit View Post
    BET IT WAS IN THE FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Probably shot him in the eye and went straight into the brain. You are right though,,,lucky!

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