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  1. #21
    Ram Rod's Avatar
    Ram Rod is offline Senior Member
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    I can get any new Glock here for $459+tax...bone stock hi-cap. If it were me, I'd stay away from the 45 GAP unless you want to spend your next fortune on ammo. If you want something hot, just go with the 10mm or better yet the .357 SIG cartridge. Just my .02

  2. #22
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    comments anyone?

  3. #23
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeeshan View Post
    comments anyone?
    On the Stoeger Cougar? Well, since you asked:

    1. Heavy trigger with dated crunchenticker action.
    2. Safety/decocking dingus works backwards from normal human hand motion.
    3. Extremely high bore axis.
    4. Rotating barrel is pointless when the Browning tilting design is simpler and works fine.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  4. #24
    Rhino's Avatar
    Rhino is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by omulherin View Post
    Thanks for the help on the right ones in California. What I meant by Hi-Cap in a carry is most I have seen are limited to between 6-9 +1 capacity. I currently own a Glock 21 .45 and love the .45 round. But am looking for something a lot smaller with similiar power.
    I just looked at the California list and the FN FiveseveN is on it. if you're looking for high capacity, that 5.7x28 would be kinda cool. I've never fired it and the only thing I've actually read about it is that it sounds like a 9mm and kicks like a .22... I have no idea how reliable the weapon is but it seems like a neat pistol to add to anyones collection

  5. #25
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    The FN Five-seveN is a large pistol, at least the size of the Glock 21, with a longer barrel.

    I will not start another debate about the efficacy of the 5.7mm round, however.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  6. #26
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    On the Stoeger Cougar? Well, since you asked:

    1. Heavy trigger with dated crunchenticker action.
    2. Safety/decocking dingus works backwards from normal human hand motion.
    3. Extremely high bore axis.
    4. Rotating barrel is pointless when the Browning tilting design is simpler and works fine.
    Sir, please explain crunchenticker action? and please tell how it is bad?
    Secondly, please explain what do you mean by high bore axis? and how is it not good?

  7. #27
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    On the Stoeger Cougar? Well, since you asked:

    1. Heavy trigger with dated crunchenticker action.
    2. Safety/decocking dingus works backwards from normal human hand motion.
    3. Extremely high bore axis.
    4. Rotating barrel is pointless when the Browning tilting design is simpler and works fine.
    please explain 1 and 3?

  8. #28
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Crunchenticker is Jeff Cooper's term for a DA/SA auto. The first double-action shot goes crunch, and then the gun reverts to single-action and goes tick. Most people find a crunchenticker harder to shoot fast and well than a gun with a consistent trigger, like a 1911, Glock, XD, M&P, etc. This is also why we see things like the SIG DAK trigger and the HK LEM.

    Bore axis refers to the height of the centerline of the barrel above the shooting hand. A high bore axis generally makes the muzzle flip more (because it has more mechanical leverage), slowing the rate of accurate shooting, while a low bore axis enhances fast shooting by minimizing muzzle flip.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  9. #29
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Crunchenticker is Jeff Cooper's term for a DA/SA auto. The first double-action shot goes crunch, and then the gun reverts to single-action and goes tick. Most people find a crunchenticker harder to shoot fast and well than a gun with a consistent trigger, like a 1911, Glock, XD, M&P, etc. This is also why we see things like the SIG DAK trigger and the HK LEM.

    Bore axis refers to the height of the centerline of the barrel above the shooting hand. A high bore axis generally makes the muzzle flip more (because it has more mechanical leverage), slowing the rate of accurate shooting, while a low bore axis enhances fast shooting by minimizing muzzle flip.
    Sir, iam highly obliged by your kind and informative reply. Please explain Sig DAK action and HK LEM ?

    Secondly, can u please look into my problem and advise me for my new handgun accordingly
    have done research into the problem , why the ejected catridges hit my face . its because of bigger ejection ports on glock and hk handguns. the ejection port extends upwards and some rounds are not ejected sideways but upward and backward to the face. what do you think?



    plus, i am right handed but my dominant eye is left so gun is right in front of my face so, the probability of ejected catridge hittin my face is higher compared to shooters with right dominant eye.

    Currently i am using STOEGER COUGAR 9mm(it is same copy of Brettas COUGA R8000). I have fired nearly 7000 rounds from it without ant problem at all( I consider it as perfect gun except sights are not very good for fast acquistion of target). It has ejection port to the right only and not upwards like glock or hk etc, thatswhy the ejected carteridge never goes upwards and backwars on my face or torso.

    Anyways, i want to switch to .45 auto .
    can you please guide me in choosing the a handgun in .45 auto with following chracteristics?

    1. extreamely reliable and very durable.

    2. polygonal barreling, lowest bore axis possible and any other features for highest accuracy.

    3. ejection port to the right (not extended upwards).

    4. decocker and manual safety(with safety on the pin should be blocked and not just the trigger).

    5. fast target accquisition sights ( eg 3 dots or glock type sights or straight eight sights, and perferrably night sights to glow in dark).

    6. medium or just compact size for concealed carry( but in no way the compactness should compromise the reliability and durability factor. meaning, the size factor can be compromised but not the reliability and long service life factor of the gun).

    7. smoothest and lightest trigger pull possible as in my experience trigger pull adds considerably to acccuracy.

    8. light weight if possible (but not at the stake of any other traits mentioned above).

    9. ejected carteridge should not hit my face

    10. The gun should not be needed to be cocked for getting locked(meaning the gun should have manual safety, and safety could be activated regardless the hammer is cocked or not unlike cz9mm).

    your help will be very much appreciated,


    zeeshan

    zeeshan.haider@hotmail.com

  10. #30
    Mosquito's Avatar
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    Zeeshan, why do you post the same question on every thread you participate in. Seriously, stop being an idiot.

  11. #31
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    i am sorry. i am just desperate for help. my idea for posting my question was to find some one at some thread, who can help me. but i am sorry mosquito , if you think i am doing wrong i will refrain from this . i will not do it again.

  12. #32
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Zeeshan,

    At the moment you have at least three threads going asking pretty much the same questions over and over. I am very confused about a few things. In one thread you ask someone to explain high bore axis, and in another you explain that a high bore axis is a problem.

    I mean no disrespect to you but it seems that you are simply reading stuff on the Internet and use this as your only source of handgun knowledge. May I ask what your background is? What actual, hands-on training do you have with regards to handguns? Have you serve in an armed service? Have you taken a handgun course?

    It really sounds like you are trying to find a hardware solution to a software problem. By this I mean you want to find a new gun to make you shoot better when training is most likely what is needed.

    I am a retired police officer and law enforcement firearms instructor and I saw this all the time. A lot of new officers thought they had it all figured out and did not like to get advice on their shooting style.

    I have noticed that when some here ask you about your stance, grip etc. your reply is that they are perfect? How do you know that?

    Please let us try to help you out. This means that you need to give an honest answer to OUR questions and not just ask the same of YOUR questions over and over.

    Based on what I have read so far, I am pretty sure a good instructor could fix your shooting issues in a few hours. I think you should spend your money on a handgun class rather than a custom made handgun.

    Good luck.

  13. #33
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    Zeeshan,

    At the moment you have at least three threads going asking pretty much the same questions over and over. I am very confused about a few things. In one thread you ask someone to explain high bore axis, and in another you explain that a high bore axis is a problem.

    I mean no disrespect to you but it seems that you are simply reading stuff on the Internet and use this as your only source of handgun knowledge. May I ask what your background is? What actual, hands-on training do you have with regards to handguns? Have you serve in an armed service? Have you taken a handgun course?

    It really sounds like you are trying to find a hardware solution to a software problem. By this I mean you want to find a new gun to make you shoot better when training is most likely what is needed.

    I am a retired police officer and law enforcement firearms instructor and I saw this all the time. A lot of new officers thought they had it all figured out and did not like to get advice on their shooting style.

    I have noticed that when some here ask you about your stance, grip etc. your reply is that they are perfect? How do you know that?

    Please let us try to help you out. This means that you need to give an honest answer to OUR questions and not just ask the same of YOUR questions over and over.

    Based on what I have read so far, I am pretty sure a good instructor could fix your shooting issues in a few hours. I think you should spend your money on a handgun class rather than a custom made handgun.

    Good luck.
    sir, thanks for your concern and honest comments. sir, the reason i have been talking about same problem on 3 threads is that i am new on the forum and i honestly thought that by talking about my problem on different threads will allow me to communicate with more people.

    but now i have realized that gentlemen like mosquito dont like it. as he and you are my seniors , i respect your comments. so , in future i will never talk about same thing/ problem on more than one thread. but please ignore my ignorance for these three threads as i am gaining lotz of good knowledge.

    secondly, i bought two glock17 and returned both of them one after another as out of 50 ejected rounds atleast five hit my face or torso.

    then i bought cz 9mm . 1000 rounds and no problems.

    then bought taurus 609ti (9mm). taurus was most accurte, smoothest trigger but had one problem. after firing the rail did not settle back full causing missfire. so i returned it. but i had best groups of my life with that 609 taurus and no issues of ejected shells hitting my face with it.

    then, i bought HK usp compact in 9mm. threw almost 5 out of 100 ejected carteridges at my face.

    so, i noticed the ejection ports of bot HK and Glock and thaout port placement might be the reason.

    anyways, i am still a novice. so, please guide me as i have used same technique, grip and stance with all of them.

    thirdly, a nice gentleman on this forum told me the importance of high or low bore axis and i gained tha knowledge. then, i used that knowledge by shooting my stoger cougar and hkusp compact and realized that he was so right. so, i added low bore axis trait of the gun i am looking for in .45 acp(as i want to switch .45 auto from 9mm).

    lastly , i apologise to all my seniors and friends who might have been offended by my inquisitve mind and lack of good expression as english is not my mother tongue.

    thanks.

  14. #34
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Several people, including me, have asked. I'll ask again: what shooting stance are you using? Weaver? Chapman? Isosceles? Modern Isosceles? FBI Squat? Hip pointshooting?
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  15. #35
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Zeeshan,

    You have not offended me and how in the world do you know if I am your senior? That really does not matter anyway. I think most of us really want to help you but I, for one, am getting confused about which thread is which since you seem to cut and paste the same stuff in all of them.

    Anyway, forget all that and let's start over.

    Why don't you start a thread in this forum (New to Handguns) and explain to us what your shooting background is, what type of stance you use, explain your grip etc. Like I, and others, have pointed out, it really does not seem to be a problem with the gun but rather with how you use it.

    I bet if you pick a gun you like because it fits your hand etc. we can help you learn how to shoot it better.

    So you first assignment is to pick one gun and caliber, and we go from there. Do yourself a favor and do not worry about stuff like the bore axis and ejection ports etc. If you are a novice, those sorts of details will just get in the way.

    What handguns do you own right now? Which one do you prefer to shoot? Why do you want to switch from 9mm to .45ACP?

  16. #36
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Several people, including me, have asked. I'll ask again: what shooting stance are you using? Weaver? Chapman? Isosceles? Modern Isosceles? FBI Squat? Hip pointshooting?
    weaver

  17. #37
    zeeshan is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    Zeeshan,

    You have not offended me and how in the world do you know if I am your senior? That really does not matter anyway. I think most of us really want to help you but I, for one, am getting confused about which thread is which since you seem to cut and paste the same stuff in all of them.

    Anyway, forget all that and let's start over.

    Why don't you start a thread in this forum (New to Handguns) and explain to us what your shooting background is, what type of stance you use, explain your grip etc. Like I, and others, have pointed out, it really does not seem to be a problem with the gun but rather with how you use it.

    I bet if you pick a gun you like because it fits your hand etc. we can help you learn how to shoot it better.

    So you first assignment is to pick one gun and caliber, and we go from there. Do yourself a favor and do not worry about stuff like the bore axis and ejection ports etc. If you are a novice, those sorts of details will just get in the way.

    What handguns do you own right now? Which one do you prefer to shoot? Why do you want to switch from 9mm to .45ACP?
    stance = weaver
    currently using stoeger cougar 9mm. no problems, but sights are very small and its hard to accquire target. i am from pakistan and cant get extra sights for the gun

    i am switching from 9mm to .45 because i want to have maximum one shot stopping power.

  18. #38
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Now we are getting somewhere.

    I just found this sight: http://www.corneredcat.com/Basics/stance.aspx

    I think it does a great job explaining the different stances. I suggest you try the modified Weaver (AKA the Chapman). That is what I used with my students and still use today when I work with people learning to shoot.

    This website even addresses cross-dominance, something I seem to remember you mentioned in a prior post.

    The sights should not be that big of a deal if you are shooting combat type stuff since you really will not use them much in real life. Now, if you are doing real target type shooting, then it might be an issue.

    I somehow knew you were going to say that you want "stopping power." There is no such thing when it comes to handguns. If you want to really stop someone or something, get a shotgun and load it with buckshot or slugs. Or get a rifle.

    Caliber is a secondary concern if you can hit what you aim at. Since you are still learning to shoot, I recommend you stick with the 9mm. If you really feel like you must have a .45, worry about whihc to get later on.

    My advice is to shoot the Cougar as much as you can and work on the basics. Start with your stance. Try the modified Weaver and make sure to extend your strong side arm all the way. Also, make sure you check your grip too.

    Do a little research and find some photos on the web of the correct grip. Once you have that down, try this: hold your weapon in your strong hand and squeeze hard enough that the weapon starts to shake. Then ease up just enought that it stops shaking. That is how firm you want to grip your weapon. Make sure you use your support hand correctly and wrap it around the strong hand, not under it.

  19. #39
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Your grip should look something like this. This is from the same sight as mentioned above. There is a lot of great, basic stuff on that site. Check out the section on grip.

    http://www.corneredcat.com/Basics/grip.aspx

  20. #40
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Is this what your sights look like? If so, I don't think you can do much better than that. A nice three dot set up like that is very easy to see and use in my opinion.

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