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  1. #21
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxPhantom View Post
    The Judge would be a very good car gun.
    What makes the Judge a good car gun? Only when loaded with .45 Colt ammo does it have sufficient penetration for any kind of fighting, much less car-to-car action. But if you are carrying regular .45 Colt ammo, why not carry a more compact revolver? Or just carry a compact .45 auto, which is smaller, often lighter, easier to conceal, holds more ammo, and is faster to reload?

    Reference: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

    Further, here are John Farnam's comments on .410 revolvers:

    Taurus is currently marketing their M4510, five-shot revolver. In their booth at the SHOT Show, Taurus showed us a video touting this gun as being designed specifically for use in preventing car-jackings. It is a big, heavy pistol, and reloading is slow. Comfortable, concealed carry is possible only for the biggest among us.

    The revolver chambers and fires both 45 Colt ("Long-Colt") and 410 shotgun cartridges, however 410 shotgun shells are limited to the shortest made, 2.5 inches. In the promotional video, 410 birdshot was, not surprisingly, demonstrated on a "Shoot-n-See" paper target that is designed to make each pellet impact look much bigger than it actually is. The pistol's rifled bore aggravates the spread of the shot pattern. Even at a range of four feet, the birdshot pattern in the demonstration had already attained a diameter of eight inches.

    As I watched, it occurred to me that, as a single-purpose "snake-gun," this revolver would be second to none!

    I know of no actual shootings with this revolver on human criminals. However, a friend in OK just used his copy to dispatch a large skunk at a range of ten feet. He used #8 birdshot. The task required three hits, but the unimpressed skunk was far from DRT. He slowly waddled off, crawled into abush, and eventually died.

    I can't imagine any size of birdshot, particularly from a short barrel, being an effective fight-stopper. However, loaded with 45 Colt, or 410 slugs or buckshot, I believe this revolver is at least arguable as a "car-gun." 410 slugs are available, as is 410/000bk (three pellets). My personal choice would be 000bk!

    In a real fight, that one can use this revolver, or any gun, effectively, via any species of unaimed, "spray" technique, is little more than self-deception. To be effective in a life-threatening circumstance, shots from any kind of firearm must be aimed precisely by a competent Operator.

    Just as cars that "drive themselves" are currently unavailable, guns that are effective in the hands of the untrained and willfully incompetent exist only in the minds of the naive.

    /John


    So basically it's good for shooting snakes and clays, but a questionable (or as John put it, "arguable") choice for fighting.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

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  3. #22
    TxPhantom's Avatar
    TxPhantom is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    What makes the Judge a good car gun? Only when loaded with .45 Colt ammo does it have sufficient penetration for any kind of fighting, much less car-to-car action. But if you are carrying regular .45 Colt ammo, why not carry a more compact revolver? Or just carry a compact .45 auto, which is smaller, often lighter, easier to conceal, holds more ammo, and is faster to reload?


    So basically it's good for shooting snakes and clays, but a questionable (or as John put it, "arguable") choice for fighting.
    Some very good points. I don't own a Judge but have considered buying one without doing much research yet. After reading this, probably not.

  4. #23
    mikim is offline Junior Member
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    After some consideration and talking to the CFO I am going to wait on the Kimber until I have more experience and know that I would use $1200 worth of gun. The wife and I both like her Bersa 380 ...so my thought at the moment is - why not get the Bersa 45 then getting the judge as well won't be as big a financial hit. My main use for the Judge is as a tractor / snake / varmint gun. I plan on putting it in a holster under my left arm out of harms way as I'm working, but close at hand for snakes & skunks & such. I'm calling it a tractor gun but keep in mind when I'm working in the woods with my tractor, I'm off it at least as much as I'm in the seat. The Bersa would be my carry gun. The advantage of the Judge as I see it is the variable loads. You could put buck shot followed with a slug or 45 LC - if the buck didn't take care of whatever varmint you immediately follow with your next shot of larger ammo.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxPhantom View Post
    Some very good points. I don't own a Judge but have considered buying one without doing much research yet. After reading this, probably not.
    If you really want a revolver for SD, look into the .357 mag. Excellent cartridge for SD.

  6. #25
    TxPhantom's Avatar
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    S & W snubbies.....

    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    If you really want a revolver for SD, look into the .357 mag. Excellent cartridge for SD.
    My wife and I both have S & W snubbies, she a 642, and me a 442. Both with Crimson Trace lasers and loaded with +P ammo. We carry them often depending on weather related clothing. They are both 38 caliber.
    I shot a friend's 357 snubbie and it was snappy, a little too snappy. We have a couple of 357 revolvers, a S & W,TRR8 (hers) and a 686PP with a six inch barrel (mine) that handle the 357 magnum quite well but too big to use as a ccw. They stay in bedside drawers at home, as part of our home defense arsenal.

  7. #26
    hideit's Avatar
    hideit is offline Senior Member
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    nobody has mentioned the kahr PM9

    since his title is compact gun
    what is wrong with this for a first gun?

    also for a revolver - i would suggest any of the jframes in 38 special with +P loads

  8. #27
    ttomp is offline Junior Member
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    Kimber ultra carry .45

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