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  1. #26
    NITROEXPRESS's Avatar
    NITROEXPRESS is offline Junior Member
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    Dunbane was handguns, Whitehaven was the latest with a .22 semiauto in 2010 - I hope that they use common sense this time or we will be heading toward no public ownership of any firearm or shotgun in the U.K. You just cant legislate against crazy people, tight laws are fine, total bans are not.

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  3. #27
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    I wouldn't get a Judge if it was going to be my only gun. If you can get .44 shotshells (I call 'em "snake shot"), then there's no need for a .410. Either the Ruger or Smith would be excellent.
    S & W makes the "Govenor" which is a knock off of the Judge. Don't forget that they both shoot .45 long colt and .45 acp with moon clips. The .45 long colt is not that far off from a .44 magnum.

    I would venture to say that the S & W is a better weapon than the Taurus.

  4. #28
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    EDIT The .45 long colt is not that far off from a .44 magnum.
    I would venture to say that the S & W is a better weapon than the Taurus.
    How far off is not that far off? Just curious, as I have always considered the .44 mag. to be a MUCH more powerful round than the .45 LC. Edumacate me please. Yeah agreed, S@W over the Taurus.
    Eli :mrgreen, but I really wouldn't want either one myself.

  5. #29
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Not only is .45 "Long" Colt almost exactly equivalent to .45 ACP, but Eli is correct that both are a far, far cry from .44 Magnum.

    But if you're going to fire .45 "Long" Colt cartridges, or even .45 ACP, why would you need a Judge or a Governor?
    • The long, long cylinder makes both .45 cartridges less effective, robbing both velocity and accuracy as the bullet passes through.
    • And if you want to occasionally fire snake-shot from your pistol, you can buy .45 "Long" Colt and .45 ACP shot cartridges.
    • Further, .410 shotshells, even the ones purposely loaded for self-defense, are pretty weak and wimpy, and won't reliably stop a fight. And firing them through a pistol's short barrel robs them of a good deal of the little power they have to begin with.

    The Judge is a gimmick. The Governor is a "me too" gimmick.
    The one thing that both of them are good for, is parting you from your money.

    If you think that firing a shot cartridge absolves you from the practice necessary to become an accurate pistol shot, think again.
    No matter what comes out its front end, a pistol is a pistol; and, unless you practice, a pistol is difficult to shoot accurately, effectively, and well.

  6. #30
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Not only is .45 "Long" Colt almost exactly equivalent to .45 ACP, but Eli is correct that both are a far, far cry from .44 Magnum.
    ...
    It's been a long time since I've held a .45 L.C. cartridge in my hands, but if memory serves me well:
    • The bullet weights are similar to the .44 magnum
    • The casing size is sufficient to load to magnum pressures


    The guns that were available were not able to handle the magnum pressures. I am fairly certain that there are some modern guns from Ruger and others that are capable of handling magnum pressures. In which case the .45 L.C. will yield similar results as the .44 magnum.

    Addendum: According to the Speer quote within this link the .45 LC in plus P pressures is about midway between .44 magnum and a .45LC. A .45 LC with standard pressures will drive a 225 grain load about 1,000 fps. Federal's 225 grain in .44 magnum drives the bullet at 1,280 fps. See: http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

  7. #31
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    It's been a long time since I've held a .45 L.C. cartridge in my hands, but if memory serves me well:
    • The bullet weights are similar to the .44 magnum
    • The casing size is sufficient to load to magnum pressures
    ...
    I venture to say that if you want to shoot .44 Magnum cartridges, get a .44 Magnum pistol.

    The point to which both you and I were referring, had to do with using .45 "Long" Colt cartridges in a Judge or Governor.
    You stated that .45 "Long" Colt, in that situation, was a close equivalency to .44 Magnum power.
    That is, of course, absolutely untrue.

    1. Do not hand-load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power-and-pressure levels, for use in either a Judge or a Governor. It's a good way to lose a hand or two, and maybe an eye or two as well.
    2. Just because you can load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power and pressure, doesn't mean that you should do so. Most guns won't take it.
    3. Factory-supplied, normal-pressure .45 "Long" Colt cartridges are equivalent to .45 ACP normal-pressure cartridges. Factory-supplied .45 "Long" Colt "+P" cartridges are a little more powerful, but not anything like .44 Magnum full-power loads.

    Please be careful: Giving bad advice can get someone maimed, or even killed.

  8. #32
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I venture to say that if you want to shoot .44 Magnum cartridges, get a .44 Magnum pistol.

    The point to which both you and I were referring, had to do with using .45 "Long" Colt cartridges in a Judge or Governor.
    You stated that .45 "Long" Colt, in that situation, was a close equivalency to .44 Magnum power.
    That is, of course, absolutely untrue.

    1. Do not hand-load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power-and-pressure levels, for use in either a Judge or a Governor. It's a good way to lose a hand or two, and maybe an eye or two as well.
    2. Just because you can load .45 "Long" Colt cartridges to .44 Magnum power and pressure, doesn't mean that you should do so. Most guns won't take it.
    3. Factory-supplied, normal-pressure .45 "Long" Colt cartridges are equivalent to .45 ACP normal-pressure cartridges. Factory-supplied .45 "Long" Colt "+P" cartridges are a little more powerful, but not anything like .44 Magnum full-power loads.

    Please be careful: Giving bad advice can get someone maimed, or even killed.
    Blathering nonsense.

    Re-loaders have to measure out powder. They need to look up the amount of powder to measure out on a re-loaders chart. These charts provide all the warnings required. No where did I mention what pressure to load to, what powder charge to use or give any specific instructions.

    What I said was that the limitations of the round were the weapons used and not the round itself. The manufacturers of factory ammon need to load to pressures of the weakest weapons out there for liablity reasons. A reloader is not restricted by those constraints and can reload to the levels that his weapon is capable of.

    The .45 LC can be loaded to magnum levels; whether it is wise to do so is the decision of the reloader in reference to the weapon he is loading for.

  9. #33
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Arguing with a fool is pointless.
    I'm outta here.

  10. #34
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Arguing with a fool is pointless.
    I'm outta here.
    Consistent with your on-line demeanor. Anyone who disagrees with you is a fool.

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