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  1. #21
    scooter's Avatar
    scooter is offline Supporting Member - Legally Armed Scooter Trash
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    In re-reading this I think I have discovered something important, From all your info it would appear (and I missed it totally) that you have NOT been having a failure to EXTRACT but a failure to EJECT problem. Anyway the recoil spring and hammer spring and firing pin retainer would still be the route we ended up on. The Slide was not coming back far/fast enough to spit the shell out.

  2. #22
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Maybe you're "limp-wristing" the gun. Hold it tighter, with rigidly-locked arms and wrists.
    See if that helps.

    Failures to eject, especially in short-barrelled pistols, can sometimes be attributed to operator error.

  3. #23
    hxer is offline Junior Member
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    Steve I would like to have the gun able to with stand a little limp-wrist so that my son could shoot it also. Another reason it was purchased was for my wife to carry. So essentially I need it to function flawless. I think I have got it there now. It was never a real problem for me to shoot but when I would intentionally grip it loosely it would fail to eject every round. After a few modifications spoken of earlier I can grip it loose and allow the barrel to flip and it is not jamming now.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hxer View Post
    Steve I would like to have the gun able to with stand a little limp-wrist so that my son could shoot it also.....
    i would think that you would teach your son proper technique so he wouldnt be limp wristing it

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hxer View Post
    Steve I would like to have the gun able to with stand a little limp-wrist so that my son could shoot it also. Another reason it was purchased was for my wife to carry. So essentially I need it to function flawless. I think I have got it there now. It was never a real problem for me to shoot but when I would intentionally grip it loosely it would fail to eject every round. After a few modifications spoken of earlier I can grip it loose and allow the barrel to flip and it is not jamming now.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    i would think that you would teach your son proper technique so he wouldnt be limp wristing it
    A bad spring is going to cause issues. A lot of people like to jump up on the limp wristing bandwagon, but it really takes a crappy grip to cause issues in a properly functioning gun. You shouldn't need a death grip to make a gun function.

    I'd wager that the original spring was out of spec and that's what caused what appeared to be limp wristing issues with the gun, the weaker 115gr ammo would just make it worse.

  6. #26
    hxer is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    i would think that you would teach your son proper technique so he wouldnt be limp wristing it
    I really didn't expect to be lectured about teaching proper handgun techniques, but to make you feel better a nine year old just doesn't have the strength of a full grown man. He probably handles a handgun as well as many adults and safer than many I have seen. He has been taught proper techniques and safety and wouldn't be allowed to participate in shooting if he did not use those techniques and practice safety rules. As a matter of fact I've seen him tear the center out of a target and keep putting rounds through the hole at 20 yards using the weaver stance and proper two handed grip.

    He also shoots my .45ACP with no issues, so it goes to reason that the 9mm should function with him also. I think I have the problem fixed anyway, I appreciate the input that those gave concerning the issue I was having.

  7. #27
    hxer is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    A bad spring is going to cause issues. A lot of people like to jump up on the limp wristing bandwagon, but it really takes a crappy grip to cause issues in a properly functioning gun. You shouldn't need a death grip to make a gun function.

    I'd wager that the original spring was out of spec and that's what caused what appeared to be limp wristing issues with the gun, the weaker 115gr ammo would just make it worse.
    I tend to agree with the spring issue, new one installed, and polished ramp seem to do wonders

  8. #28
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    ...A lot of people like to jump up on the limp wristing bandwagon, but it really takes a crappy grip to cause issues in a properly functioning gun. You shouldn't need a death grip to make a gun function...
    I respectfully disagree with that statement.

    In a short-barrelled semi-auto pistol, grip and technique are of supreme importance to reliable function. If enough recoil force is "scrubbed off" by a loose hold or a limp wrist, reliability will suffer. The pistol may not fail to eject every time, but it won't be reliable.

    I suggest that a small, powerful, semi-auto pistol will not be at its best in weaker hands, be they the hands of a young child, those of an inattentive man, or the hands of a less-than-fully-strong woman.

    Bear in mind that I believe that any reasonably motivated 10-year-old can successfully shoot a full-size, full-weight .45 Government Model. Shorties are, however, quite a different matter.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I respectfully disagree with that statement.

    In a short-barrelled semi-auto pistol, grip and technique are of supreme importance to reliable function. If enough recoil force is "scrubbed off" by a loose hold or a limp wrist, reliability will suffer. The pistol may not fail to eject every time, but it won't be reliable.

    I suggest that a small, powerful, semi-auto pistol will not be at its best in weaker hands, be they the hands of a young child, those of an inattentive man, or the hands of a less-than-fully-strong woman.

    Bear in mind that I believe that any reasonably motivated 10-year-old can successfully shoot a full-size, full-weight .45 Government Model. Shorties are, however, quite a different matter.
    If we were talking about small guns I would agree with you. A Commander sized 1911 in 9mm (light weight it may be) is not what I would call small or overly powerful for it's size.

  10. #30
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    That's true.
    I thought that it was a smaller version than that.
    Sorry.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hxer View Post
    I really didn't expect to be lectured about teaching proper handgun techniques, but to make you feel better a nine year old just doesn't have the strength of a full grown man. He probably handles a handgun as well as many adults and safer than many I have seen. He has been taught proper techniques and safety and wouldn't be allowed to participate in shooting if he did not use those techniques and practice safety rules. As a matter of fact I've seen him tear the center out of a target and keep putting rounds through the hole at 20 yards using the weaver stance and proper two handed grip.

    He also shoots my .45ACP with no issues, so it goes to reason that the 9mm should function with him also. I think I have the problem fixed anyway, I appreciate the input that those gave concerning the issue I was having.
    wasnt a lecture, it was a one sentence comment.

  12. #32
    scooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    If we were talking about small guns I would agree with you. A Commander sized 1911 in 9mm (light weight it may be) is not what I would call small or overly powerful for it's size.
    Yes thats true but 9mm's can and a lot of the time do have a snappier recoil ,especially ball ammo. So while I agree a commander length should be better than that, it is still a possibility.
    Like I said before it was probably a spring or combination of springs that were the problem

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    That's true.
    I thought that it was a smaller version than that.
    Sorry.
    No worries, manufacturers fail the KISS principle.

  14. #34
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    I came across this old post and wondered if you resolved the extraction issue? I have an utra carry II and mine partially extracts the fired rounds and then drops them. It does this with factory ammo or reloads. I sent it back and they replaced the extractor (since the gun was purchased new). I still have problems. Im thinking I should have bought a S&W m&p or a glock. I have run about 2000 rounds through it. I'm just trying to find out more before calling kimber again.

  15. #35
    rex
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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredracer View Post
    I came across this old post and wondered if you resolved the extraction issue? I have an utra carry II and mine partially extracts the fired rounds and then drops them. It does this with factory ammo or reloads. I sent it back and they replaced the extractor (since the gun was purchased new). I still have problems. Im thinking I should have bought a S&W m&p or a glock. I have run about 2000 rounds through it. I'm just trying to find out more before calling kimber again.
    I totally forgot about this post.

    He did fix it with a new recoil spring,which you should replace now with that many rounds.Kimber has been known to be weak on their extractors and tuning them,they may have replaced it and a few rounds worked and shipped it.Check the tension as the begining of this thread said if it's still dropping them.

    There are 2 other possible problems in this scenario I don't think I mentioned.First is a weakened mag spring but I doubt that's the issue.What may happen is a weak extractor lets the case drop a touch and when it gets to the next round,since 9s are short,the case bumps the round and the hook loses the rim.Another problem that's rarer is the extractor is too long and bumping the barrel face.If light it will keep knocking pressure off the extractor,if heavy it will break the hook clean off.Try a new proper wight recoil spring first,the shorties should be replaced pretty often and need a good hold compred to the 4"+ guns.An easy way to get more lockdown without a death grip is roll your elbows out when you get extended,it helps stiffen everything to your shoulders.

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