Well at a large gun sale yesterday, I took a look at the Kel-Tec P-3AT and P-32. I knew these were relatively cheap guns and chocked it up to the polymer frame and simple design. They are very diminutive, but the quality of these pistols is attrocious. The type of plastic used reminded me of the plastic model airplanes I built as a kid. The fit and finish is horrible, there is a lot of flash around the plastic from the molding process, the magazine release was not consistent over 3 of the same pistol and I felt like I could pull the magazine from the gun without even pushing the mag release. I understand that people swear by these for deep concealment or BUG, buy I will never trust the lives of my family and myself with one of their products. On another note, I will probably be picking up a Kahr PM-9 later today, they had a great price on them.
that sounds pretty bad, nukehayes. i have never even held one before myself. maybe some of the members that have them will have something to say.
Huh. Well, they're not Seecamps, but both mine work great and are thinner and lighter than anything else on the market. Neither has ever malfunctioned, and I trust my life to them confidently.
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I guess I would have to shoot one first, but for now they have been removed from my buy list.
Gotta agree with Mike. My P3AT is ugly and kicks like a mule, but it's been nothing but reliable.
My P3AT has had numerous FTE's. 1st generation. Disasembled/cleaned still have enough FTE's to NOT trust my life with it. I will stick with a Glock or S&W 340PD for CCW.( or Colt or Para when I can carry a large frame weapon)
Hello Nuke, your right about about a couple of things regarding the P-32. They are not pretty and they look & feel cheap and cheap to buy ($200.). Thats because they are cheap. I felt the exact same way when I first picked one up. But that being said. They are not a range gun, they were made for one purpose, back-up conceal carry. A lot of LEO carry it as back up & others, especially plain clothes. It is the smallest, thinest, lightest, 7 shot semi with no snag points, all rounded edges made. I have owned one for years and dont shoot it much, maybe a few hundred rounds thru it total, Just every now & then to make sure its still working correctly. It has never failed, jamed or FTF. I cant say the same thing about my $700. Walther p99 .40 (but I still love it.) and use the Walther a lot at the range with a couple thousand rounds thru it. Im sure it could have been built with heavier plastic and better quality parts with adjustable sights to last forever, but then it wouldnt be a $200. gun, probably closer to $400. and not acheive what they set out to do with this little cheapy. Here is a photo with some of my other handguns that I posted on another thread, and the Kel Tec looks cheap compared to the others, but it only cost a fraction of what the others cost too, also the others are built for a lifetime of shooting. It has proven reliability, but also limited life, I think Kel Tec says it good for 5000 rounds. So if you view it for what it is, Its good for what it was designed for. Good luck & happy shooting. P.S. I have heard that they dont feed some brands of JHP ammo very well, But I have not experienced that either. Maybe I just got a good one.
Feel the same about mine. I love it. But, whatever trips one's 'trigger'.
Originally Posted by Mike Barham
My P3AT shoots every time.
I have a Keltec 32 - Like it a lot. Super, super small. The 1st gen ones were not that great, and often required work by the owner to make them reliable... They have been around for many years now.
The 2nd gen ones - more recent ones, have the fluff and buff done already. Much more reliable. Never a problem with my Keltec 32.
This is a good thread..
Bought a Keltec 32 today
hey nuke -
you said it was a sale - maybe they were all gen 1's
i have never seen one as bad as you described
go shoot one
but you gotta remember what was made for
you gotta keep things in perspective
one complained that it kicked like a mule - what would you expect from 7 or 8 ounces?
lasts 5000 rounds! - well put 300 rounds thru it and break it in then hope you never have to use it - i have been told by several people that they wont leave home without it -well, why not - you won't even know it is there because its so light - the pf9 is my next gun
I think this is the first time I have disagreed with a post of yours. Yes the Kel-Tec's are not the finest of fit and finish. I have both the P-3AT and P-32. You made me go and get them and put them under the light. I don't see what you saw in the ones at the sale. The fit on mind is just fine along with the finish. I'm not looking for my H&K fit and finish because I only spent 230 for each gun. I wonder if you were looking at used ones or a bad batch. I have yet to have a jam and they are for backup. Anyone who uses a 230 gun for a primary is telling me what they are worth.
Originally Posted by nukehayes
Now the Kahr. I don't understand them. You have to break them in. I have heard you must shoot them 250 times no less and expect lots of jams. Then I've heard 300 then 450 or 500. What is the number of time do you have to shoot the Kahr before it's reliable? Then after that breakin period you have a top of the line firearm. I think a firearm should leave the factory in the top of the line for reliability. Now we have price. What do you get from Kahr that Glock doesn't have. They cost more than Glocks so they must be better. I'm looking at pictures of Kahr because I won't spend that much money on it. I'm also looking at real Glocks and picture and the Kahr is way out of it's league. They don't compare to a Glock in anyway. Glocks do not have to be broken in. I would say they are a 100 times better than a Kahr 1000 times better than kel-tec but where do they get off charging people that kind of money. I would love to buy one brand new to test out and I'm willing to pay 375 for the PM-9 new out of the box. I think that's what it's worth. I do know I have never own one and only have shot two mags and it did nothing for me. I like the design for concealment. I just don't get the price.
Ok I went off the bridge on that one. Went to Teddies driving school for drunks. Please do not take this as an attack on you nukehayes. I just have a sore point with Kahrs. I do want one but they have not convince me or even explain to me in anyway why they want the money they are asking for. You said it's important for safe guarding your family. Then save some money and buy a glock.
Thank you for your concern Spacedoggy, but I really like that gun, it just really appeals to me with its smooth trigger, super thin frame and diminutive size. I also bought it today NIB for $550 tax included. I think I did pretty good on that. And I don't mind burning some ammo through it, I love shooting. And practice with jams is a good thing, I seem to recall a thread from you about practicing clearing jams. I believe all the good things I hear about Glock, but they are not for me, the only polymer DAO I like is this little pocket rocket. I like the good size sights on it too compared to my PPK/S, but those sights aren't hard to beat.
I wasn't complaining, it's just a simple observation. It's a reliable gun, but not one you're going to go to range with and have fun putting 500 rounds through in one session.
Originally Posted by hideit
You should get many hours of shooting pleasure from your Kahr. They are good pistols and very reliable.
Enjoy your new pocket rocket.
Well, no ones going to confuse the P3AT for a custom 1911, but it'll go places the 1911 wont. 7 rounds of .380, and you don't have to be a magician to make it disappear. Fully loaded, it weighs about what a loaded 1911 mag weighs. And you don't have to be wealthy to buy one - you can probably find enough loose change in your couch (or your kids piggy-bank).
The combination of price, size, weight, and acceptable firepower make it a truly amazing handgun. I don't carry mine very often (because I prefer a 9, 40, or 45), and most of the time I'm able to carry a larger gun. But for those few times I'm unable to comfortably carry a larger gun, I really appreciate the small size & weight of the P3AT. I would carry the P3AT as a CC BUG, but sadly my state, New Mexico, doesn't allow a second CCW.
Of course, I also like the Kahr. I bought a P40 with night sights a few years ago for $590 and love it. Glocks can't compete with the size & weight - especially the thickness - of the Kahr. As for price, I think the Kahr is pretty close to the Glock. $550 for the PM or $590 for a P40 with night sights isn't that much more than a Block.
As far as a break in period, it isn't that big a deal to me. I think you should put several 100 rounds down range before you trust a carry gun anyway. I've seen handguns a lot more expensive than a Kahr suggest a break in period.
I don't shoot my P40 or P3AT very often, but when I do, they have been 100% reliable. I trust them both to function when and if I need them.
I'm happy for you, you answered my question by telling me what you like about it. It's like a glock owner telling someone they think they are the best looking pistol. They don't understand until that person explains to them that performance can change how you look at an object. I get mad at Khar because I want one but won't pay the money not to say one won't pop up in the near future. Yes I do practics with jams but that's not because I plan on buying a gun that jams. Jams are caused by a lot of different factors.
Originally Posted by nukehayes
Enjoy your new khar, I know many people who do.
Last edited by Rustycompass; 11-03-2007 at 12:53 AM.
When I had my 9mm I went to the woods, there was a downed tree with the smooth cut faced towards me. At about 20 yards away I aimed and let off a full mag. Went to check it out. Hit it about 7 of ten. Sold it for a Taurus .357, I like magnum revolvers. Work with a guy who has two KT's in .40. Thats what I want.
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