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I know that Kel-Tec doesn't officially recommend shooting +Ps in the PF9, but carry them in my clip. I have shot about 10 to see how they handle, and they are a hand full. I figure if I need to use them in self defense, I wouldn't feel the recoil. How many of you carry +Ps in your PF9?
:smt1099
I wouldn't suggest carrying +p or +p+ ammo in any gun that manufacturer doesn't recommend it. It will speed up wear and tear, and may even damage your gun, making it unsafe to fire. If someone knows otherwise, then correct me, but I can't imagine if the manufacturer says not to do it, then you shouldn't do it.
Enjoy the pf-9 though!
+1!Quote:
Originally Posted by rccola712
Pressure? Bah! Damn the pressure!!! Do you over-inflate your tires too? Equipment manufacturers have specifications and limits on their products for a reason. If your gun is not rated for the ammo, don't use it. If you do, know it's at your own risk. Yeah, the gun worked fine, this time, but it will not eventually. Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should.
I've put many +P rounds through my PF9 only because I carry it with +Ps. I usually put 3 +Ps through it at the range [if I get a decent group] every couple months or so, after practicing with 'a few' AE, WWB, CCI Independence, etc.
The 9mm Luger is a bit wimpy to start with, so I use the +P for carry with that very short barrel. Most makers will give advice to cover themselves legally.
KT doesn't say not to use +P in the PF9. However, I do use a lighter bullet weight to minimize stress on the chamber & maximize penetration.
My PF9 will have very few rounds ever fired through it since it is 'business' piece and not a range gun. Since it is only a Life/Death gun for me, I'll risk wearing it out while defending myself. That's not likely.
I just want to point out that back in the day when Berretta M9's were first being issued and tested and the slides started flying off the frame and into peoples face the first thing Berretta claimed was using ammunition that was too "hot", ie the weapon wasn't intended to be used with such powerful ammo. some modifications have occurred over the years and it hasn't happened since, but their are still some operators running around with scarred faces due to this issue.
If the manufacturer says don't do it, and you specifically decide to ignore that, any and all consequences of your action are of your own bearing and responsibility. Safety first
There are plenty of weapons that handle and say it is ok to use +p ammo. If you feel you must use that ammo I would say get a gun made to do so. Otherwise like has been said it is not a good thing to do.
Safety is so important in anything and it is monumental with guns!!!
RCG
I know a man who works in the testing department at Kel-Tec, and his advice is to never use +p ammo in PF9. It was not designed for it. Keep it up, and the slide may come back in your face some day.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCGA
Has the +p really inproved your ability to shoot a tighter group? Remember only hits count in a gun fight. :numbchuck:
When a manufacture covers their own a$$ they are covering yours for you first. If they thought their guns were capable of handling the +p ammo they would not cover themselves legally. Shot whatis recomended, get a different weapon, or decide on your own to proceed at your own risk and peril. Just my friendly advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeye
RCG
Good safe bet to default to the manufacturers recommendations on ammo. Replacement cost with the Kel-Tek is low risk but it's not worth getting hurt. A unit that small decides to go shrapnel mode on ya that is a very bad day.
I will say, if the gun can handle it, that anyone who can shoot +p in a PF9 and enjoy it is not someone I want to mess with. I shot regular ball and HP loads in mine and it was so unpleasant I got rid of it. Function was great but to me it reached and exceeded by a fraction the how small and light can I go in a service caliber handgun question. I got my answer. Similar to S&W's scandium 13 oz. 357 mag snubs in that regard. No thank you. Maybe I'm a wuss with sensitive sally hands but the PM9/PPS is my low end on size and weight for 9mm and up. YMMV.
I have two 9mm and both can use Plus P ammo but I prefer Hornady Critical Condition Personal
Protection ammo, mostly for its uniform expansion, its accuracy and finally for the easy feeding
because of the insert . Every hand gun that I carry has Hornaday in them when they are in my
pocket. Also in almost every gun review I have seen the Hornaday ammo is usually the most
accurate with the tightest groupings.
You can argue all day about +P ammo. There is plenty of standard pressure ammo out there that is just as effective as +P. Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot are my preference for concealed carry. I would rate the HST superior to the Ranger +P, and it's far less punishing to shoot.
Years ago I had a Beretta 950 (.25 caliber, single action only). A wimpy round.
To get around the "wimpiness" of the .25 round I practiced "stitching up".
This was taking the first shot to the area of the sternum, the next shot about 2" - 3" higher, the next shot 2" to 3" higher (about in the throat), and continue until I had no more target to shoot at.
I still think this is a good strategy for .380 ammo; perhaps for 9mm too.
It is easy to train like this and I would end up with a, tap, tap, tap, tap (4 rounds) typically in the bad guy target.
If I am not mistaken you can shoot +P ammo in a PF9. Kel-Tec says it ok to shoot them on a limited basis, not all the time. This is an "I think". Check in the owners manual, I believe this is where I read this.
Since we are talking life and death if you can't stop an attacker, and regular 9mm aint much, even in a long barrel, I say fire enough plus P's thru it, and I am talking only about CorBon's PowRBall 100gr loads, to ensure reliable function, and carry them, but don't practice with them. It's not that you wont feel the recoil that is the issue, it's can you control the gun and load adequately in rapidfire. If your shooting timer says that you can't get repeat hits in .25 second, on a man's chest at 10 ft or so, that gun and load combo is not adequately controlable by you, at your current level of skill, and it would behoove you to either use something else, or immediately improve your ability to do so. Nobody can adequately control a snubby 357 with full charge loads, nor the .44 mag, nor the airwt .38 snub with plus P 158 gr loads. Which is why I would never recommend such gear. Most shots fired in combat miss the intended mark, most hits are poor ones, multiple attackers are a commonplace occurrance, so repeat shot speed is very important, indeed.
PF-9 is rated for +P on a limited count. They basically say it's ok for carry, but don't bludgeon it all day at the range. And for what it's worth, I can handle the recoil of the PF-9 with ease, and control the .357 snubby and the .44mag perfectly fine (I own all of the above: Taurus 605, Colt Anaconda). I'm literally built like a 400lb gorilla, and do construction work for a living, so I've got fore arms like popeye and I can palm a basketball. I'm not saying it's common, but I'm not that unique for the claim to be made that nobody can do it.
There are some very effective standard pressure rounds available. I'm a strong believer in "shot placement". +P or +P+ rounds make placement more difficult than it needs to be, especially in an ultra small handgun.
Ok ...some here say it can shoot +Ps on a limited basis...Ill ask you this, do you want the first shot fired at a bad guy to be the "one that breaks the camels back" and blows the gun up or the slide into your face insted of stopping said bad guy???
AINT WORTH IT!
+P thru a PF-9? All I can say is OUCH!:rolleyes:
I have a new PF-9 and have only had it at the range one time. I shot 100 rounds of standard 115gf FMJ and HP ammo. I don't think my hand could have stood any more or anything more powerfull. It's a real ripper for sure. I have a LC9 some time ago. It shot a lot better.
I have heard it said shooting a KT PF9 is like putting a lit firecracker under a cheesegrater then grabbing the cheese grater. Shooting +p would then be like putting an M80 uner the same cheese grater.
RCG
Heck, I don't need a stinking cheese grater! I'm such a man that I just hold it in my hand with a really tight grip.:mrgreen: Too bad I could not handle running +P thru that PF9 I had a while ago. I ran one magazine of the stuff and thought the gun was going to come apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by recoilguy
It's plain and simple. If the manufacturer of your weapon recommends you DON'T USE +P ammo, then DON'T USE IT. You'll void any kind of warranty and accelerate the wear and tear on your weapon. And, most importantly, it is dangerous to you and people around you.
There is a plethora of fantastic standard pressure SD ammo out there. Using +P in a non +P rated weapon is foolish and gains you nothing.
I agree. I ran one magazine full through the one I had, and that was enough to tell me that the gun is a little on the lite side for that sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy_CZ
If you want to shoot +P buy a good gun.....Kel Tecs are not made to handle +P. They are easy to afford and easy to find on the shelves.
RCG
I know, thanks for the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by recoilguy