Mine pitches the brass a good ways, no FTF in 300 rounds
Well, based on everyone's advice and looking at my needs for concealed carry, I went ahead and bought a new P3AT for $240 ($290 after shipping to PA and FFL transfer fees). I've been able to shoot 100 rds of Winchester white box 95 gr FMJ so far, and love it to death. I have found that with my initial shots (I practice shooting two from the hip after tilting up to target from a draw from the back pocket), I am even more accurate with the P3AT than with my XD. Out of the 100 shots, there was only 1 failure to eject, and it was when my dad was shooting the final round of the mag, so I am unsure of what caused it (possibly limp wristing?). I have not had any failures of any type. However, there are a couple of issues that have come up which I'll describe in a second.
I have a box of 20 Federal Hydroshoks 90 gr that I have yet to shoot, as I am going to go through 200-300 non-expensive rounds to break it in before trying out my expensive ones. I have it loaded with these for carry currently as it is rapidly taking over the XD40SC's job for the most part, and will test out a batch of the Hydroshoks as soon as possible/reasonable. I am using an Uncle Mike's size 1 pocket holster for it, and it fits perfectly for me. I could not be pleased more.
The first issue is this: the P3AT seems to throw brass with such force that it will fly over 15 feet in the air and over 20 feet rearwards. This is not a problem when shooting with arms extended. However, I have been hit in the face (thankfully I had my glasses as it ricocheted off of my cheek to hit them) and in my neck once each when shooting from the hip (as described above). Is this normal brass ejection? Can anything be done to lessen/redirect the shells?
The second issue is a little more disconcerting to me: the assembly pin has tried on several occasions tried to "walk out" of position. It has come out as far as ~.5cm from flush. There were some times I had to push it back in place as many as 2 or 3 times per magazine. Any thoughts on how to cure this without making dissasembly impossible?
Finally, with regards to carry in "athletic wear," aka, running shorts etc when working out, is it responsible/safe to have it in a pocket using the Keltec clip and no holster? If so, which way is the best to carry it for someone who is right handed (so I know which sided clip to get)?
Thanks for all the pre-buy advice guys and the help here too.
Mine pitches the brass a good ways, no FTF in 300 rounds
Don't carry a pistol clipped inside your pocket. If you want to pocket-carry, use a pocket holster that covers the gun's trigger completely. Clipped to your pocket, the pistol is on the "wrong side," and it will be difficult to establish a reliable firing grip on it before you begin your presentation. Clipped to, or carried "naked" in, your pocket, the gun's trigger is open and can be accidentally pulled, with disastrous results. (Never carry anything in your "gun pocket" except the pistol itself, in a holster. Never.)
A pistol with a clip should be carried clipped to your pants' (or skirt's, or kilt's) waistband, and should ride inside the waistband of the garment. Thus, if you are right-handed, the pistol rides somewhere on your right side, inside your pants. Therefore the clip should attach to the pistol's right (outer) side.
Your pants' waistband becomes the "holster" for your clipped pistol. When you grasp the gun to begin your presentation, your trigger finger remains outside your pants' waistband, just as it would (should) remain outside of a holster.
Does that help?
I wouldn't tweak anything to adjust the brass throw. Just get to full extension for your point shooting, or fire from a "cant" in the retention position. The gun should tilt to the right, 30-45 degrees. This will throw your brass sideways.
I carry in a Uncle Mikes #1 also.
I have an Armalaser on mine, so I'm just as accurate from the hip, as from any other position.
I pocket carry mine regularly, even to the gym. I am also thinking of the frame-mount belt clip for IWB carry. In my opinion, if the trgger is covered, with leather, kydex, or your waist band... it's covered. There will be dissenters to "Mexican Carry" here.
I shoot Gold-Dots in mine. They are a modern hollow point. They have a nice round nose and feed fine. NO ammo out of a P-3AT will expand reliably every time... It's all about minimal protection, volume of fire, and clean livin'.
I would call Kel-Tec about the assembly pin and they will send you a new one probably. They do eject shells every which way. You might ask K-T about it while you have them on the phone. If I ever had to use it, it will be fast and empty in a heart beat so I don't worry to much about the shells.
Last edited by Baldy; 07-02-2008 at 09:43 PM.
The pin may need to be replaced but it may be the little retaining spring that supposed to lock the assembly pin. Might take tiny screwdriver and see if you can pry the spring up some. There should be a "click" when the pin is locked in place.
I can't help with the walking pin, but:
Hip shooting is an obsolete technique, anyway. Improve your close-in shooting by changing to the Retention position, with the pistol tucked in close, high and next to your strong-side pectoral muscle. Rotate the pistol slightly, so the slide is leaning away from you. This is a much better fighting technique than the old hip shooting method, and will also probably do a much better job of keeping brass out of your face.
I've carried the P3AT (or the previous P32) clipped to my running shorts many, many times. It works fine on 3-6 mile runs. I carry mine at the appendix position, slipped inside the elastic waistband. I wear spandex-type shorts under my running shorts, so the pistol just sort of slides against my body as I run, with no abrasion. Of course, the gun gets all sweaty and I have to wipe it down thoroughly after a run.
At the risk of being flamed (I know, a handgun without a round chambered is a brick, etc), would it be reasonable when working out and carrying with a belt clip (no holster) similar to how you carry Mike (spandex and running or "swishy" shorts overtop) only without a round chambered? I simply don't like the idea of the trigger being relatively open. Granted, it wouldn't be in a pocket or with anything besides the clothes, but still...I'm a little more reassured about carrying inside the waistband like this, but am still a little concerned, although I can't think of any other way to carry easily while running/working out...
Also somewhat on that issue, is there anyone who has a belt clip installed on their P3AT who also carries in a Uncle Mikes size 1? Would it be a problem for holster carry if I installed the belt clip?
Regarding the shooting/brass issue, Mike, I only use hip shooting for the 1st 2 rounds or so then move into close retention position. Basically I only practice with that for a very close range mugging type scenario, one where I am already outgunned and I have to reach behind for my "wallet." Already being under the gun, I would try to get 2 shots off from the hip essentially before the gun is noticed. I would love to learn proper take off manuevers (aka, shooting while moving off the x etc), but until then, it'll have to be hip shooting moving to retention if I'm late to the fight or simply straight to retention if I see the fight coming or I have time. But as to others' suggestions, tomorrow I'll try shooting from the hip with a cant added to see if that helps avoid brass to the face.
Finally, I'll probably take it apart to give it a light cleaning before shooting tomorrow and then see how she does shooting tomorrow. If there are still problems with that pin, I'll go ahead and call KT on Monday to see what they have to say about it. Thanks for all the good advice guys...And happy 4th!
Bare naked in your pocket, and if you're so negligent as to throw a set of keys in there with it, then, yes, no cartridge "up the spout." But clipped to your waistband? Please!
I don't actually own a P3AT, but we tested a S&W J-frame with the Clipdraw, which is similar enough in this case.
The Clipdraw was not an obstruction when using relatively soft holsters like those of Uncle Mikes. I therefore suggest that Kel-Tec's clip probably wouldn't get in the way either.
Neither the clip nor the holster is particularly expensive, so it'd certainly be worth a try. If the combination didn't get along, little would be lost.
And, you could post a review and achieve instant fame!
I've carried the KelTed running for years now, and my wife has done so in similar fashion for over many more miles (she's a marathon runner). We both still have all our parts intact, with no NDs. As Steve pointed out, it's a DA-only gun with a reasonably hefty trigger. No problems.
I can't speak for carrying the gun (with clip) in an Uncle Mike's, but I have carried it many times in a Galco pocket holster with no problems.
I don't carry any auto without rd chambered but if you go that route, might want to stick w/fmj. p3at slide sometimes needs to be "sling shotted" to chamber first rd if jhp. Not something I'd want to have to deal w/in serious situation.
I just fired my P-3AT for the first time at the range this weekend. I was using Independence 90gr FMJ ammo. I had two fail to load's with my first magazine, none for the remaining 50 rounds. The gun feels very comfortable but I'm not able to aim with the miniscule sights. I certianly hope that I never have to defend myself at a distance of more than 15 feet with this gun, or maybe I really do need to get LASIK for my eyes. I definitely need to fire a few hundred more rounds to get used to the compact size comparred to my P228.