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  1. #1
    NickFox is offline Junior Member
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    INTERESTING - Different Kahr issues, have you ever seen this??

    I am going to try at all costs to AVOID this becoming the "typical" Kahr post. 1) It is NOT a bash - these are valid points AND I have un-resolved issues. That said, I REALLY dig the form factor on the Kahr, and it's no-contest between G27 and CW40 for CCW. NO DOUBT. I'm brand new to the forum, but NOT new at all the handguns, and I like alot of the insight I've read in other posts, and thusly, decided to post this.

    OK - so to begin, I bought a like-new CW40, so new that you could not see use, and internally, thing looked pristine- right down to the springs. Took down 100% to verify. On first trip to range, had a few FTF (*round kinda got "hung up" between the slide and face of the chamber when slide returned home). I polished all of barrel face, and this has 100% resolved any feeding issues, or so it seems. 550 rounds and counting...

    BUT - Here's a serious issue, and it's frustrating the crap out of me. The slide occasionally ceases at the DEAD-STOP. This is completely on back-action. Happens in last (approx.) 1/8th inch of travel, AFTER the slide-stop catch-point. Usually a hand-slap is NOT enough, you need to remove mag, and then give the butt of the slide a good rap on a hard surface. she slams home and will then fire. Happens totally random, and has occurred with ALL of the following ammo:
    Hydra Shock
    Federal Premium
    Winchester white box
    Atlantic cheapo range stuff

    2) the 2nd time the ceasure happened, coincidentally (maybe) the follower-front cracked, in the typically spot that happens on PM40s (so I'm told by kahr). Again this is a CW model - Kahr says they've not seen breakages like this on CWs, only on older PM models..

    FIRST: I do want to say, I called Kahr twice. The first time I was VERY upset - I did not get the warm and fuzzies from the service person, and honestly was AT THAT POINT very dissapointed with my purchase. I am a manufacturers rep - PRODUCTS BREAK. I get that. However I DO want to be dealing with a company that gives a Flying F and will want to service me and make me feel GOOD about purchasing. Sadly, this did not happen the first time around..

    GOOD NEWS: Second time around I spoke to a VERY friendly and knowlegable service person, and feel MUCH better about buying the weapon. They were perplexed by the ceasure issue- I don't know if I believe them on this point, but they say they've not seen that... Again, I'm a manuf-rep... Not sure if I believe or not... BUT - I am very happy with the outcome:

    Kahr is sending a new return spring, and a mag follower. I'll re-post once spring is installed... Who knows.. maybe it say so long it got lazy, and thus the ceasing issue.. dunno. Kahr seems to think this may resolve. Hope so...

    QUESTIONS:

    - Anyone ever had this happen?? any of it??

    - Has anyone figured out a magic solution to shorten trigger reset yet??

    - Has anyone ever tried the "O-ring" trick as a recoil buffer on a CW pistol?? Seems to me like that might do two things: 1) act as a great snap-buffer, 2) actually REDUCE travel by a tiny amount, such that slide would not hang up or "seize"

    COMMENTARY:

    Again, this is NOT a flame post. In short, I REALLY REALLY dig the tiny size of the CW40.. ALSO, did anyone stop to check out comparative barrel lengths?? this is a VERY serious advantage to the Karh, IMHO (pertaining to accuracy) and despite reading hundreds o user reviews, NO ONE has yet to compare (meaningfully) the barrel length:

    Specifically, let's compare a Glock 27 (compact .40) to the Kahr CW40 (one model BIGGER than compact)... The CW40 is not only ALOT thinnner, but 1/8" sharter overall length AND HAS +1/2" WORTH OF BARREL... YES- you read that right. The kahr wins HANDS OWN over the Glock in this department: thinner, shorter AND longer barrel, PLUS the hand-grip gives you secure grip with 4 fingers, rather than 2 or 3..

    Recoil: I don't know how to explain this, but despite the lack-luster trigger on the Karh, is DOES somehow not feel quite as "snappy" as my glock.. Either way, recoil doesn't bother me on either, and I'm a fan on .40 cal. Eventually I will buy a .45 though, for reasons we've all read about... this will be ADDED to collection, NOT to replace the kahr .40..

    Curious to know if anyone's had this seizing problem. thanks for your responses and thoughts.

    In conclusion, I really like BOTH Kahr and Glock. If I needed higher capacity etc, I'd carry the glock, despite the extra chunkiness. 95% of the times though, I'm more concerned for UC duty-carry, and rely on the tiny diminutive size of the Kahrs, vs. the glocks. Despite the hiccups, I must say, there IS no other choice out there for tiny/reliable. ALL small-small pistols have tighter tolerances, and ergo, perhaps the reason there are MANY negative posts about MANY different brands of micro/compact. That said, I wouldn't carry a Kimber nor a PPK, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna bet my life on a Kel-tec 9mm... lol. For me, Glock is still my favorite.. however for CCW duty, the CW frame is VERY hard to beat- it's smaller AND has a longer barrel and more secure-feeling hand swell.
    Now I just need to make it as reliable as the Glock, and I'll deal with the trigger...

  2. #2
    shaddaddy is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickFox View Post
    I am going to try at all costs to AVOID this becoming the "typical" Kahr post. 1) It is NOT a bash - these are valid points AND I have un-resolved issues. That said, I REALLY dig the form factor on the Kahr, and it's no-contest between G27 and CW40 for CCW. NO DOUBT. I'm brand new to the forum, but NOT new at all the handguns, and I like alot of the insight I've read in other posts, and thusly, decided to post this.

    OK - so to begin, I bought a like-new CW40, so new that you could not see use, and internally, thing looked pristine- right down to the springs. Took down 100% to verify. On first trip to range, had a few FTF (*round kinda got "hung up" between the slide and face of the chamber when slide returned home). I polished all of barrel face, and this has 100% resolved any feeding issues, or so it seems. 550 rounds and counting...

    BUT - Here's a serious issue, and it's frustrating the crap out of me. The slide occasionally ceases at the DEAD-STOP. This is completely on back-action. Happens in last (approx.) 1/8th inch of travel, AFTER the slide-stop catch-point. Usually a hand-slap is NOT enough, you need to remove mag, and then give the butt of the slide a good rap on a hard surface. she slams home and will then fire. Happens totally random, and has occurred with ALL of the following ammo:
    Hydra Shock
    Federal Premium
    Winchester white box
    Atlantic cheapo range stuff

    2) the 2nd time the ceasure happened, coincidentally (maybe) the follower-front cracked, in the typically spot that happens on PM40s (so I'm told by kahr). Again this is a CW model - Kahr says they've not seen breakages like this on CWs, only on older PM models..

    FIRST: I do want to say, I called Kahr twice. The first time I was VERY upset - I did not get the warm and fuzzies from the service person, and honestly was AT THAT POINT very dissapointed with my purchase. I am a manufacturers rep - PRODUCTS BREAK. I get that. However I DO want to be dealing with a company that gives a Flying F and will want to service me and make me feel GOOD about purchasing. Sadly, this did not happen the first time around..

    GOOD NEWS: Second time around I spoke to a VERY friendly and knowlegable service person, and feel MUCH better about buying the weapon. They were perplexed by the ceasure issue- I don't know if I believe them on this point, but they say they've not seen that... Again, I'm a manuf-rep... Not sure if I believe or not... BUT - I am very happy with the outcome:

    Kahr is sending a new return spring, and a mag follower. I'll re-post once spring is installed... Who knows.. maybe it say so long it got lazy, and thus the ceasing issue.. dunno. Kahr seems to think this may resolve. Hope so...

    QUESTIONS:

    - Anyone ever had this happen?? any of it??

    - Has anyone figured out a magic solution to shorten trigger reset yet??

    - Has anyone ever tried the "O-ring" trick as a recoil buffer on a CW pistol?? Seems to me like that might do two things: 1) act as a great snap-buffer, 2) actually REDUCE travel by a tiny amount, such that slide would not hang up or "seize"

    COMMENTARY:

    Again, this is NOT a flame post. In short, I REALLY REALLY dig the tiny size of the CW40.. ALSO, did anyone stop to check out comparative barrel lengths?? this is a VERY serious advantage to the Karh, IMHO (pertaining to accuracy) and despite reading hundreds o user reviews, NO ONE has yet to compare (meaningfully) the barrel length:

    Specifically, let's compare a Glock 27 (compact .40) to the Kahr CW40 (one model BIGGER than compact)... The CW40 is not only ALOT thinnner, but 1/8" sharter overall length AND HAS +1/2" WORTH OF BARREL... YES- you read that right. The kahr wins HANDS OWN over the Glock in this department: thinner, shorter AND longer barrel, PLUS the hand-grip gives you secure grip with 4 fingers, rather than 2 or 3..

    Recoil: I don't know how to explain this, but despite the lack-luster trigger on the Karh, is DOES somehow not feel quite as "snappy" as my glock.. Either way, recoil doesn't bother me on either, and I'm a fan on .40 cal. Eventually I will buy a .45 though, for reasons we've all read about... this will be ADDED to collection, NOT to replace the kahr .40..

    Curious to know if anyone's had this seizing problem. thanks for your responses and thoughts.

    In conclusion, I really like BOTH Kahr and Glock. If I needed higher capacity etc, I'd carry the glock, despite the extra chunkiness. 95% of the times though, I'm more concerned for UC duty-carry, and rely on the tiny diminutive size of the Kahrs, vs. the glocks. Despite the hiccups, I must say, there IS no other choice out there for tiny/reliable. ALL small-small pistols have tighter tolerances, and ergo, perhaps the reason there are MANY negative posts about MANY different brands of micro/compact. That said, I wouldn't carry a Kimber nor a PPK, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna bet my life on a Kel-tec 9mm... lol. For me, Glock is still my favorite.. however for CCW duty, the CW frame is VERY hard to beat- it's smaller AND has a longer barrel and more secure-feeling hand swell.
    Now I just need to make it as reliable as the Glock, and I'll deal with the trigger...
    Sorry I dont have specific answer to the problem u r having - but I am having similar issue with Kahr customer service -- also kinda curious why everyone seems to think someone is a "basher" or a "flamer" when someone mentions a problem with ANY gun -- it seems we have to write a book to explain why we are not bashing the company. Most people report negatives - primarily those looking for answers ! - Am I the only one who thinks this way ???

  3. #3
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    I've never had issues with my Kahr 9mm. Only contact I had with the company was to order a new slide stop, because the finish on my original got scratched up. Mine has been 100%. If those parts don't fix it, I would suggest you call back and send it in.

    As to the trigger, that's just the design of the weapon. I see all sorts of "kits for Glocks, M&Ps and XDs. I do not recall seeing any trigger mod for a Kahr. Sorry.

  4. #4
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    There are people who have "never had a problem" with their Ket-Tec .32, and there are people who have had problems with "troublefree" Glocks. Until the magic day comes when they finally figure out how to mass produce a machine that can handle the demands of feeding, firing, extracting, and ejecting PERFECTLY, well, that's why I really like revolvers (yeah, I have had one with timing issues). The web is chock full of "problem" semis, yet each case seems to be a surprise to the owner. Semi automatics have been shown over and over again to be prone to odd performance issues, methinks it is the nature of the beasty. By the way, I've had rhe PM9 and Glock 26/27. They were all "flawless" shooters out of the box!
    Eli

  5. #5
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliWolfe View Post
    There are people who have "never had a problem" with their Ket-Tec .32, and there are people who have had problems with "troublefree" Glocks. Until the magic day comes when they finally figure out how to mass produce a machine that can handle the demands of feeding, firing, extracting, and ejecting PERFECTLY, well, that's why I really like revolvers (yeah, I have had one with timing issues). The web is chock full of "problem" semis, yet each case seems to be a surprise to the owner. Semi automatics have been shown over and over again to be prone to odd performance issues, methinks it is the nature of the beasty. By the way, I've had rhe PM9 and Glock 26/27. They were all "flawless" shooters out of the box!
    Eli
    I'm pretty sure they call them HK's.

  6. #6
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    I'm pretty sure they call them HK's.
    So I've heard. Just never got around to buying one which is pretty odd for me. My longtime gunstore bud swears by them.
    Eli

  7. #7
    jimkimmons's Avatar
    jimkimmons is offline Junior Member
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    I first purchased the Kahr CW 40 for the very carry reasons you mention. It's a joy to carry. However, after appropriate suggested break-in, I was still having premature lockback issues with rounds still in the mag. I ordered another slide lockback spring, and then another and the screw that mounts it, and the slide stop and replaced them. I had fewer problems, and at about 1000 rounds through it, I found that one of my three factory new magazines seemed to be part or all of the problem. I now consider the gun reliable enough to carry, but I also have a Glock 27 which I carry at times. It's just not as much fun in the vest or IWB holster.

  8. #8
    gb6491's Avatar
    gb6491 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    I'm pretty sure they call them HK's.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC2DLhfU9Ec

  9. #9
    guitargeak99 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickFox View Post
    BUT - Here's a serious issue, and it's frustrating the crap out of me. The slide occasionally ceases at the DEAD-STOP. This is completely on back-action. Happens in last (approx.) 1/8th inch of travel, AFTER the slide-stop catch-point. Usually a hand-slap is NOT enough, you need to remove mag, and then give the butt of the slide a good rap on a hard surface. she slams home and will then fire. Happens totally random,
    This exact thing has happened on my PM40. I have only about 150 rounds thru it and it has locked back once, past the slide-stop. After break-in this will be a CCW..., and I'm not feeling to good about this. I was somehow hoping that this was a "before break-in" issue, but I've never had a pistol do this. Other than that I like this gun. I'll notify Kahr CS tomorrow, and continue to shoot it.

  10. #10
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    L I M P W R I S T I N G!!!

    It's not the gun. I've shot at least 10 different HK USP's and have never had a problem.. I'd bet a $100 bucks that if I shot his pistol, it'd run like a raped ape. Watch how much recoil he's experiencing. That's not normal for a 45 unless you are a vagina pants. Seriously... If I can keep a .357 Sig on target, rapid fire... (which has more recoil impulse), he's just not doing it right.

  11. #11
    gb6491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    L I M P W R I S T I N G!!!

    It's not the gun. I've shot at least 10 different HK USP's and have never had a problem.. I'd bet a $100 bucks that if I shot his pistol, it'd run like a raped ape. Watch how much recoil he's experiencing. That's not normal for a 45 unless you are a vagina pants. Seriously... If I can keep a .357 Sig on target, rapid fire... (which has more recoil impulse), he's just not doing it right.
    So we know for sure that at least 10 HK USPs will work..........all kidding aside, I tend to agree with you; I imagine that improper technique is behind many a complaint about lightweight semi autos.

  12. #12
    HadEmAll is offline Junior Member
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    Nick,

    Did the spring fix your problem? I would hope you'd come back and let people know. That's how these forums help. Anyway, since you haven't posted, I'm going to do a little ranting and raving about Kahr related issues.

    First, a little background. I've had a K40 for 11 years, a CW40 for 3 years, and have acquired a PM40, PM9, and P380 in the
    last year, so I have some Kahr knowledge to back up what I'm going to say.

    I've got Berettas, Brownings, Sigs, Kimbers, S&Ws Rugers, etc, but Kahrs are unique in several ways. Not everything about other pistols can be applied to Kahrs.

    You apparently bought a USED CW40. Not necessarily bad, but sometimes when you buy used, you buy somebody else's problem, and that looks like what happened to you. That's probably why it looked pristine as you say.

    The only Kahr I had problems with out of mine was the P380. It required me to call Kahr customer service and I can tell you this.......... When you spend as much on a gun as you do on a Kahr, it's natural to want to chew some ass when it doesn't work right. However, IT DOES NO GOOD to chew out the guy who answers the phone at Kahr. He isn't the guy who built it, and he isn't the guy who's going to work on it when it gets back there. Follow me? If you give him that "I spent a lot of money on this POS, and by god I want it work right, you are just creating a pissed off phone answerer. It is counterproductive. You need to count to 10 or whatever works for you, and just discuss the problem. He has heard it all, and may have dealt with other irate callers in before you that day.

    I have literally had steam coming out of my ears because I was so pissed off about my P380's problems THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN BACK TO THEM ONCE, that I had a very hard time keeping a civil tongue in my head the second time I had to call them, but again, I realize that they guy on the phone was not responsible for either the manufacturing flaw, or the botched repair.

    They are getting P380s back for the 2nd and 3rd time. So they are dealing with some pretty pissed off people.

    Talking nice can get you prepaid shipping, parts, or better service. That's all I can say about that.

    Now for the guys blaming the slide lockbacks mid magazine on the user, that's possible, but there are plenty of documented cases (especially in P380s and PM9s) of poorly manufactured slidestops that need some material removed to keep it from contacting the bullet noses.
    The best way to tell is remove the slide, reinsert the slidestop, and insert a loaded magazine. Watch the bullet nose on it's path past the inside portion of the slidestop, and you can see whether it might be an issue with yours. Some do it themselves, some get a new slidestop from Kahr, and some send them back. It appears to be more common with the larger bullets, the 102 grain Rems in .380, the 124's and 147's in the PM9. So don't automatically assume its you hitting the slidestop, or limp-wristing. It may be, but if paying attention to that doesn't work, check the slidestop. If you just call Kahr and tell them your pistol is locking the slide back mid-magazine, and nothing else, they are going to assume it's you. It helps to be prepared to tell them (nicely) that it is not you, its probably the slidestop.

    They are cranking the PM9 and P380 out like hotcakes, and quality control has slipped a little. I fixed my PM9 myself.

    Now that I've done all this spouting off, I realize that I have no guess as to a solution for your original problem. I'd guess a frame problem, but will wait until I see if you even read this before discussing it further.

    One last rant. When the K9 and the other Kahrs came out 11 or 12 years ago, the trigger was what everybody raved about. It was like a double-action revolver with no stacking. Safe, smooth, and once you master it, capable of very nice accuracy. No safeties to fumble with. It's part of what put them on the map, and a large part of what made their product a premium product over the Keltecs with their 25 pound trigger pulls.

    Fast forward to today. I am irked when I see people new to Kahr complaining about the Kahr trigger as too long, lackluster, blah, blah, blah. Why did you buy it? The trigger is what it is, a KAHR trigger. Long, soft, and smooth.

  13. #13
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    L I M P W R I S T I N G!!!
    Nice catch Zhurdan!!! That dude is limp wristing the shit out of that HK

    There exists pistols that are reliable, alot of folks need to stop trying to defend their tinker jamming pistols by calling out QUALITY brands that have proven reliability.

  14. #14
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Yeah, it always surprises me when people blame a fantastic brand of pistol for it's bad functioning. I like how he said they were full power loads, not the powderpuff that Todd Jarrett uses. Laughable.

    Here's some full power loads, and I don't seem to have that problem. Hmmmm. Anyone still think it's the gun? Hehehe


  15. #15
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    ^ is that you shooting... Sweet video!

  16. #16
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Yup. That's little old me. There's another one with a 357sig on my youtube page.

  17. #17
    johej is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    L I M P W R I S T I N G!!!

    It's not the gun. I've shot at least 10 different HK USP's and have never had a problem.. I'd bet a $100 bucks that if I shot his pistol, it'd run like a raped ape. Watch how much recoil he's experiencing. That's not normal for a 45 unless you are a vagina pants. Seriously... If I can keep a .357 Sig on target, rapid fire... (which has more recoil impulse), he's just not doing it right.
    About limpwristing.

    If the gun will not work with a limp wrist it is crap AND the manual should state:

    This gun will not function if:
    1) you become wounded and experience loss of strength
    2) you get shot in you right arm and is forced to use your left arm
    3) you get shot and your wife or kid needs to pick up the gun and defend you
    4) you get in a shooting and things get messy and stressful and you get the grip of the gun slightly wrong

    In fact, dont buy this gun at all, because it might not work when you need it to save your life

  18. #18
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johej View Post
    About limpwristing.

    If the gun will not work with a limp wrist it is crap AND the manual should state:

    This gun will not function if:
    1) you become wounded and experience loss of strength
    2) you get shot in you right arm and is forced to use your left arm
    3) you get shot and your wife or kid needs to pick up the gun and defend you
    4) you get in a shooting and things get messy and stressful and you get the grip of the gun slightly wrong

    In fact, dont buy this gun at all, because it might not work when you need it to save your life
    Hilarious. Should they also make sure to let people who buy hammers know that if they don't hold it firmly that it sucks because they aren't using the tool correctly? The whole principle of recoil in semi-automatic handguns is for the pistol to have something to recoil against. aka a firm grip.

    Whenever I hear about a gun, especially one from a quality manufacturer, that doesn't "work", I'd put money on it being the shooter 9 times out of 10 rather than the actual gun having an issue. Sure, there are lemons out there, but I've personally fired weapons that other people say are junk (HK's, Glocks, 1911's, even a highpoint for hells sake) and they seem to work just fine for me. Imagine that, you change one variable and they work. What was the variable? The SHOOTER.

    Use a tool how it's intended to be used. If you plan on limpwristing your gun, you might as well carry a hammer instead.

    As to your examples, they are part of what can happen in a gun fight, not what causes the gun to malfunction on a square range. Number 4 is especially wrong. If you practice enough, you have a much higher probability of getting it right than you do of getting it wrong. Train to the best not the worst.

    ETA: I'd almost forgotten about this video that I filmed for the express purpose of showing people that recoil can be mitigated with a USP .45 with the proper stance and grip. It's just amazing that I can keep it from jumping all over the place... AMAZING. hehe

    Last edited by zhurdan; 08-10-2011 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Edit to add video

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johej View Post
    About limpwristing.

    If the gun will not work with a limp wrist it is crap AND the manual should state:

    This gun will not function if:
    1) you become wounded and experience loss of strength
    2) you get shot in you right arm and is forced to use your left arm
    3) you get shot and your wife or kid needs to pick up the gun and defend you
    4) you get in a shooting and things get messy and stressful and you get the grip of the gun slightly wrong

    In fact, dont buy this gun at all, because it might not work when you need it to save your life
    Thank you for joining the forum. This is a quality first post!

    RCG

  20. #20
    johej is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Hilarious. Should they also make sure to let people who buy hammers know that if they don't hold it firmly that it sucks because they aren't using the tool correctly? The whole principle of recoil in semi-automatic handguns is for the pistol to have something to recoil against. aka a firm grip.

    Whenever I hear about a gun, especially one from a quality manufacturer, that doesn't "work", I'd put money on it being the shooter 9 times out of 10 rather than the actual gun having an issue. Sure, there are lemons out there, but I've personally fired weapons that other people say are junk (HK's, Glocks, 1911's, even a highpoint for hells sake) and they seem to work just fine for me. Imagine that, you change one variable and they work. What was the variable? The SHOOTER.

    Use a tool how it's intended to be used. If you plan on limpwristing your gun, you might as well carry a hammer instead.

    As to your examples, they are part of what can happen in a gun fight, not what causes the gun to malfunction on a square range. Number 4 is especially wrong. If you practice enough, you have a much higher probability of getting it right than you do of getting it wrong. Train to the best not the worst.

    ETA: I'd almost forgotten about this video that I filmed for the express purpose of showing people that recoil can be mitigated with a USP .45 with the proper stance and grip. It's just amazing that I can keep it from jumping all over the place... AMAZING. hehe

    Sure. Hammering in a nail with a limp wrist might not work so well.

    But a gun should reload no matter how loose you hold it.
    Even if you place the gun on the floor, ejection port upwards, press the trigger with your index finger while your thumb is behind the grip, the gun should reload.

    Im talking about the gun to function regardless of how it is held. Not the proper technique to hold the gun.

    You might be too hilarious too see the difference though.

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