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  1. #1
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    PM-9 pix and question

    I have a question for those of you who "carry" a PM-9 for self defense.
    The gun does not have a safety, do you feel confident carrying it "chambered" ready to fire while in the holster??? I have a little apprehension doing this, help me out with your thoughts.
    thanks, Mrwiz
    It's got night sights on it, they are cool when in the dark, work well.
    Here are a couple pix of my PM-9 :


  2. #2
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    I don't carry this Kahr, but my Glock and Keltec that I carry do not have any manual safeties. The safety is the trigger pull. If you don't pull the trigger, the gun will not fire. If you have ANY apprehension about carrying with a loaded chamber, you need to take more training, and practice more. This may sound a little harsh, but it's the truth.

  3. #3
    recoilguy's Avatar
    recoilguy is offline Senior Member
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    Personally I feel safer with one in the pipe then with out. The gun will only fire if the trigger is pulled. If you need it and there is no bullets in the chamber you will have to brandish your weapon, rack you slide, point and shot. the extra step could mean an unhappy ending.

    There is no safety so please practice, practice drawing your weapon from that nice holster. and pointing as fast as you can. do it with out putting your finger on the triggeruntil you are on target and ready to fire.

    This is just my opinion and is in no way an endorsement or advice. It is how I do it and so far I have had very good luck.

    RCG

  4. #4
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    If you have ANY apprehension about carrying with a loaded chamber, you need to take more training, and practice more. This may sound a little harsh, but it's the truth.
    Well, I do practice alot. My shooting skills are decent. I am a regular at the shooting club I belong to, and RSO. I don't know what someone could "train me to do" to give me more conficence on a loaded hg? It's sort of a personal thing. Like Recoilguy said, I should practice drawing more often. I think the "big worry" to me is not when I draw the gun, but the gun accidentally discharging in the holster for whatever reason. Maybe I question Kahr's reliability in this respect. I checked out Kahr hg's and they have a great reputation.
    mw

  5. #5
    BeefyBeefo's Avatar
    BeefyBeefo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrwizardly View Post
    Well, I do practice alot. My shooting skills are decent. I am a regular at the shooting club I belong to, and RSO. I don't know what someone could "train me to do" to give me more conficence on a loaded hg? It's sort of a personal thing. Like Recoilguy said, I should practice drawing more often. I think the "big worry" to me is not when I draw the gun, but the gun accidentally discharging in the holster for whatever reason. Maybe I question Kahr's reliability in this respect. I checked out Kahr hg's and they have a great reputation.
    mw
    That's my point. The more training and practice you have, the more confident you will become that the gun isn't going to just fire on its' own. It's not going to happen. With more training, drawing, firing and carrying, you'll realize this.

  6. #6
    sliponby is offline Junior Member
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    I pocket carry my PM9

    And always have one in the chamber. I use the DeSantis Nemesis in the right front pocket but I'm looking to go to IWB during the cooler weather when I wear more clothes. The right holster and proper training and practice (trigger finger position) should give you the confidence you now lack.

    As far as not having a round in the chamber, you can be assured the BG's have a round in their chamber and you will need every second you can save to get some lead out of that PM9 should you ever be forced into that unfortunate situation. Let's hope that day never comes, but prepare for it in case it does.

  7. #7
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for yer replies, I's appreciate them.
    MW

  8. #8
    recoilguy's Avatar
    recoilguy is offline Senior Member
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    I jumped to an assumption. I thought the confidence you lacked was that in the draw you might accidently pull the trigger and shoot yourself in the....... leg lets say. To think the gun may just go off willy nilly as it was just sitting in your holster never crossed my mind. To think the gun would just go of in your holster seem on par to think it may just go off in your safe. It is good that you are a frequent practicer and shooter. I would get to know the gun better and get the confidence that they don't just go off, they acctually have to be fired.

    If carrying with one in the chamber does cause you unease then don't. My advice would be find a way to become at ease with it because confidence in your gun is as important as confidence in your ability. Good Luck, maybe a Kahr isn't the correct gun for someone with your uncertianty.

    RCG

  9. #9
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    If you are apprehensive about carrying a chambered weapon you must have too little faith in the weapon or your ability to keep it secured. So yeah...More training to become more secure with it or replace the weapon. The third choice is to not carry at all. An unloaded weapon is more of liability than an asset. In real life you don't have near the time you might think. Half a second can save a life. If the safety outweighed the dangers then LEO would carry that way. But they don't. Because it would get them killed.

  10. #10
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    I jumped to an assumption. I thought the confidence you lacked was that in the draw you might accidently pull the trigger and shoot yourself in the....... leg lets say. To think the gun may just go off willy nilly as it was just sitting in your holster never crossed my mind. To think the gun would just go of in your holster seem on par to think it may just go off in your safe. It is good that you are a frequent practicer and shooter. I would get to know the gun better and get the confidence that they don't just go off, they acctually have to be fired.
    Yes, that is my apprehension, the reliability of a chambered gun accidentally going off. It's not my skills in drawing a gun that I feel are lacking, it's confidence in the PM-9 operating correctly. I am a very responsible person that works in potentially hazardous situations at my job, which I have been doing now for 31 years. I feel I am capable of handling the responsibility of handling/drawing a firearm, but have to gain confidence in my Kahr to feel comfortable to leave one in the chamber. My Galco pocket holster keeps the gun right on the leg while in my pocket, and am a little apprehensive for fear it might go off. I think it's something I can get over. I also have a Galco QUICK SLIDE BELT HOLSTER that I "do feel comfortable enough to carry the PM-9 chambered in because if it went off the bullet is aimed to the ground. Great points made Recoilguy, appreciated.

    If carrying with one in the chamber does cause you unease then don't. My advice would be find a way to become at ease with it because confidence in your gun is as important as confidence in your ability. Good Luck, maybe a Kahr isn't the correct gun for someone with your uncertianty.
    If you are apprehensive about carrying a chambered weapon you must have too little faith in the weapon or your ability to keep it secured. So yeah...More training to become more secure with it or replace the weapon. The third choice is to not carry at all. An unloaded weapon is more of liability than an asset. In real life you don't have near the time you might think. Half a second can save a life. If the safety outweighed the dangers then LEO would carry that way. But they don't. Because it would get them killed.
    It has crossed my mind about the type of gun the Kahr is and it's mechanics. I haven't had the gun very long (2 months/500rds) yet, maybe time/advice will give me more confidence. Great points from you DJ as well, thanks
    Mrw

  11. #11
    buck32's Avatar
    buck32 is offline Member
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    Another thought, would you have an issue carrying one in the chamber in a dual action/single action semi auto? If not, then think of it this way for your PM9, each time you pull the trigger is similar to the long trigger pull DA on a DA/SA trigger just you can not see the hammer coming back. The trigger pull is very long for a reason; to ensure you KNOW your target before you pull the trigger. If you are pocket carrying the PM9 it should be in a pocket case that completly covers the trigger.

    I have the PM9, Beretta PX4sc, Beretta M9, SA XD9sc, Ruger LCP and I feel as confident with the PM9 with one in the chamber as any of these with backstrap safety, trigger safety, decock lever or dual action/single action.

    This may be a simplistic way of looking at your concern but it is one I had in the beginning until I fired and carried my PM9 several times and realized the trigger pull and the holster was going to keep my finger off the trigger until I wanted it there.

    Just my .02

  12. #12
    Panther's Avatar
    Panther is offline Junior Member
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    Imho

    I'm relatively new to guns so when I looked for my first gun I wanted one with a safety...POSITIVELY
    I ended up getting a gun with out a safety (FNP9) Because I loved everything else about it. I reasoned that it was a range gun so I really didn't need a safety. Then I wanted a carry gun and I was back at the safety issue. I was told the best thing to get was a wheel gun with the hammer on an empty chamber so in a high adrenaline situation you don't want to "forget" to disengage the safety. But that was too bulky for me-not a big guy. So I went with the DAO PM9. It took a while but to answer you original question...Yes I feel confident with a chambered round. I talked to a fellow PM owner at the range who carries with an empty chamber. I agree with recoil guy, you do not want to have to rack the slide in a high stress situation.
    You also have the right idea in considering the holster and how you carry. I almost made the mistake of getting an off hand holster and carrying MOB. Which may lead to shooting yourself when drawing the gun under stress.
    Sorry for the long post...but I could really relate.

  13. #13
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Well, guns can be a bit scary. I'm sure you think about that round leaving the barrel really fast. and it can cause a lot of damage or loss of life. That's where training and knowledge comes into play. Research any weapon you might plan to carry. What are it's safety features? What event or combination of events can cause that round to leave the barrel? Gun makers, independent testers, and shooter all over are going to put a weapon through it's paces. And with easy internet to be had it's not real hard to find any info on about anything you can think of. People are out there doing all kinds of weird things to weapons trying to get them to fail. Then they are fast to release that info.

    And a lot of people don't like carrying certain weapons "fully" loaded. I'm a 1911 guy and that means carrying cocked and locked. Some people don't like that so will carry on half cock (I don't advise it though) For others it has to be a SA/DA so they have the added security of the longer, harder DA pull. Some like DAO weapons And many like the striker fired weapons do their "DAO-Like" pull.

    Sure there are some not so good weapons out there. But there are plenty of well made quality ones too. That PM-9 is supposed to be a real good weapon. I've not owned one and not shot one enough to really make an educated opinion about it but I tried looking for AD issues in them and came up empty. But if you are not comfortable wit hit you may want to look at something else.

    Check out some reviews and tests on the net. There were tons in a Google search. Maybe you can gain comfort in the write ups. If not then maybe something with a hammer and manual safety would be better for you. One has already talked about the FNP line of pistols. They are really good weapons and not all that hard on the wallet.

    I really didn't mean to come off all hard ass in my other post. It's just we get these threads from time to time and I really don't want to think of people walking around thinking they are armed when really for an extra second or two you are not. I hope and pray that no one ever needs their weapon to get out of a bad situation. But if you ever do you will learn really fast that things like this fly by a lot faster than one might think. So every second counts.

  14. #14
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    then think of it this way for your PM9, each time you pull the trigger is similar to the long trigger pull DA on a DA/SA trigger just you can not see the hammer coming back. The trigger pull is very long for a reason; to ensure you KNOW your target before you pull the trigger. If you are pocket carrying the PM9 it should be in a pocket case that completly covers the trigger.
    I appreciate your input and patience with the subject. Included info below describes how the "striker" fired pistol works, something I should have known alot better. According to what was written about the Glock,(I assume the Kahr is similar) the Striker is held in the "partially rearward" position, but not far enough cocked to fire the primer/gun if released from that point. Any thoughts on this statement?
    thank you, Mrwiz

    The PM9 has a passive striker block safety, and cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled. ---Gunblast.com

    Trigger strokes rotate the cam that unlocks the spring-loaded striker safety, draws the striker to full cock and releases it to fire. There are no external safeties on Kahr pistols. The striker block immobilizes the partially cocked striker and deactivates only with a complete trigger stroke. Kahr’s have no second-strike capability, requiring the slide to cycle to pre-cock the striker. My PM9 requires a bit over 6 pounds of pressure on the smooth, matte stainless steel trigger to pop a primer. ---Combat Handguns

    In a hammer-fired pistol the firing-pin spring is located in front of the firing-pin and holds the firing-pin to the rear. When the hammer strikes the firing-pin the firing-pin is driven forward into the primer and then rebounds to the rear.
    A striker is similar to a firing-pin with the exception of the spring being located in back of the striker and forcing it to the front. When the pistol is cocked the sear holds the striker in a rearward position. When the pistol is fired the sear releases the striker, which flies forward under the impetus of its spring and strikes the primer.
    The above paragraph describes a single-action striker-fired pistol, as was perfected by John Browning. In the new double-action striker-fired pistols, such as a Glock, when the slide is racked the striker is latched back far enough to be clear of the breech face when feeding a round, but not far enough to fire the pistol if released. When you pull the trigger the striker is pulled back her, then released.

  15. #15
    Bisley's Avatar
    Bisley is offline Senior Member
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    The only way the Kahr will go off in your pocket is if you holster it with your finger inside the trigger guard. That conclusion is so obvious that it is easy to just blow it off as a no-brainer, but experienced shooters have actually had such lapses. I would recommend hundreds of draw and re-holster repetitions (unloaded, of course) and carrying around the house until I either felt comfortable with it, or decided to trade it off.

    The gun is safe, but it may never satisfy you, and if not, get one that will.

  16. #16
    mrwizardly is offline Junior Member
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    The only way the Kahr will go off in your pocket is if you holster it with your finger inside the trigger guard. That conclusion is so obvious that it is easy to just blow it off as a no-brainer, but experienced shooters have actually had such lapses. I would recommend hundreds of draw and re-holster repetitions (unloaded, of course) and carrying around the house until I either felt comfortable with it, or decided to trade it off.
    The gun is safe, but it may never satisfy you, and if not, get one that will.
    Good advice Bisley. Actually, I have been doing some research on the subject and knowledge does help me understand the situation. For the most part, I will carry the gun loaded with one in the chamber, but there will be some times I will carry the gun "unchambered", that's just me. I would do that with "any" gun, again, that's just me. Some people think I'm crazy for doing that, but, that goes under the freedom of choice amendment. I appreciate alll the input here,
    thank you
    MW

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