Thank you for your opinions. I guess we view life differently and thank you for your post.

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Thank you for your opinions. I guess we view life differently and thank you for your post.

I am really curious about the baseball bat.

We don't have enough therapists to handle all the misguided souls in the usa. So we reserve the right to defend our families for the misguided that infringe upon my right to live another day

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.

If someone breaks into my house, they have the option of surrendering or retreating, once they see me start to point a gun at them, but they need to do it very quickly, because I won't put my life or my family in jeopardy, on the chance it is just somebody's nice boy who has gone astray.

If your faith in mankind leads you to want to give a criminal the option of deciding whether you should draw another breath, I support your decision wholeheartedly, and wish you well. Just don't make any rules for me to follow.

Typical, the canadians just think us Americans are trigger happy fools. So funny!@

Originally Posted by Cavere

I do apologize if anyone finds this topic inappropriate in any way. We have two small children and that's where my wife's concerns are based. Of course I will keep all guns locked and away. But as a concession I was offering not to store any ammo at home until she takes a class and becomes more comfortable.

It's basically boiling down to the age old debate of does simply possessing a firearm deter a BG or instigate worse violence.

Much like buying a car with no fuel. Why bother? Seek training for both of you. Best money you will ever spend. Additionally, visit this site:
Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.
By a woman for women, but with advice for husbands with skeptical wives.

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it?What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
Let the flaming begin... thank you

When little misguided Johnny & friends kick in your door at 0300, your baseball bat might be as useful as a Nerf gun if for some reason little Johnny & friends are packing heat.
Knowingly breaking in to an occupied house is not theft. It's not the neighbor's kid swiping your garden gnome out of the yard. It's home invasion. Those who do it are typically not the sort who respect boundaries. Much in the way that armed robbery is not simple theft and rape is not about sex. It's an act of violence with the threat of deadly force. I don't understand how even a liberal moron wouldn't see that meeting the threat of deadly force with the same is a necessary thing.
I wonder, would you disarm the police? If meeting force with force is bad, then by that reasoning, the police shouldn't have weapons either. And no, before you say it, Police are not responsible for your protection. Otherwise you'd be able to sue when they failed to do so.
As for bad decisions, when some poor misguided soul kills someone you care about, I suspect that you will not be as open minded about their particular circumstances. Does the victim owe the perp some sort of understanding? No, sorry, if you can manage to understand them man who invades your home great, but it's not something they are owed. I, for one, wouldn't think of wasting my time with it.
Stupid should hurt. Being violently stupid is sometimes fatal, as it should be.

Originally Posted by Overkill0084

Much like buying a car with no fuel. Why bother? Seek training for both of you. Best money you will ever spend. Additionally, visit this site:
Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.
By a woman for women, but with advice for husbands with skeptical wives.



When little misguided Johnny & friends kick in your door at 0300, your baseball bat might be as useful as a Nerf gun if for some reason little Johnny & friends are packing heat.
Knowingly breaking in to an occupied house is not theft. It's not the neighbor's kid swiping your garden gnome out of the yard. It's home invasion. Those who do it are typically not the sort who respect boundaries. Much in the way that armed robbery is not simple theft and rape is not about sex. It's an act of violence with the threat of deadly force. I don't understand how even a liberal moron wouldn't see that meeting the threat of deadly force with the same is a necessary thing.
I wonder, would you disarm the police? If meeting force with force is bad, then by that reasoning, the police shouldn't have weapons either. And no, before you say it, Police are not responsible for your protection. Otherwise you'd be able to sue when they failed to do so.
As for bad decisions, when some poor misguided soul kills someone you care about, I suspect that you will not be as open minded about their particular circumstances.
Stupid should hurt. Being violently stupid is sometimes it's fatal. Be it a DUI or kicking in the wrong door at night.

Good comment, do you guys knows the rules/laws if someone busts in your house at night are you allowed to shoot? As far as I know, if you feel like your life is threatened. You can.

Not trying to rob this thread, just threw up a question I had.

Originally Posted by TheLAGuy

Good comment, do you guys knows the rules/laws if someone busts in your house at night are you allowed to shoot? As far as I know, if you feel like your life is threatened. You can.

Not trying to rob this thread, just threw up a question I had.

The laws governing self defense will depend on where you are standing when you do it. CA (I'm assuming CA from your handle) has it's own specific rules. I suspect, like many other CA laws, they don't always make sense. I would not presume to state what the laws are there. Consult local laws and get on some CA gun/SD forums for more clear answers.
Typically as a rule of thumb, an armed guy in your house is fair game in most jurisdictions, but hell, even that's no guarantee anymore.

Check here: Handgunlaw.us It might help get the ball rolling.

Laws vary by state...

In MI we fall under the Castle Doctrine and you are allowed to shoot an intruder on sight, no verbal warning or giving the intruder a chance to retreat. You are acting under the impression that someone breaking into your home means you harm. You have a right to protect yourself and family... but not property (can't shoot someone who just stole your car from your driveway). If the intruder runs out you cannot follow and shoot him down the street... because the threat ended and you became the aggressor the moment he left and you began to persue him. You also have no obligation to retreat in your own home... laws change once outside your "four walls" of the residence.

That being said... please identify your intruder/target before you blindly fire a weapon at him/her.

TRUE STORY: A man hears a noise coming from the kitchen in the middle of the night and see's a silhouette coming through the window. He fires his handgun and instantly kills the intruder.... only to find out it was his 20 yr old son coming home from college for the weekend to surprise his family. The son had forgot/lost his key and came in through an open window since it was late. The father was cleared of the shooting (legally)... but now his son was dead, and he has to carry that burden.

Moral of the story... everyone who has a handgun should also have a flashlight in the nightstand. Not saying you have to illuminate you position, but they can be used tactically to give you an advantage.

TRUE STORY: I, myself have had an intruder in my home... we had just moved in a new house and in the process of unpacking. My wife calls to me that someone is in the house. I arrive in the living room to find a teenager going through my DVD collection. I call to him but get no response... in fact, he ignores me and continues to browse through my movies. My firearm is tucked in my pants (small of back)... I choose not to pull it out just yet as I instruct my wife to grab the kids and go to the bedroom. I notice the teenager is wearing a diaper and after closer inspection appears to be mentally challenged. I call 911 and they advise that a mentally challenged boy is missing in the area. I keep an eye on him til the police arrive to escort the young man home.

Moral of the story... is don't be so quick to fill people full of lead... identify your target and make sure it's a threat. I was well within my right to shoot this kid... but I deemed him to not pose an immediate threat to my safety. I would not want that burden to carry.

Obviously there are times when the threat is apparent and quick action is necessary.... so you must know your capabilities and limitations so you can make the right decision if that moment ever comes. Use sound judgement and common sense... and a flashlight (if possible).

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
Let the flaming begin... thank you

First and foremost, welcome to the forum.

Second, as far as "the sky is falling mentality" we do not want Canada-like gun laws, if it can happen to you it can happen to us and worse.

Thirdly, lethal force may or may not be used to protect property depending on jurisdiction.

I would not kill someone over property alone, if someone was in my house for my tv, I won't shoot over a tv but at the same time I'm not sure I would just let them walk out with a promise not to come back and that would mean holding them while waiting for police etc.

Should that person be armed and desperate...well desperate people do desperate things. I haven't heard of too many home invaders that weren't desperate for something. Some could take discovery as a threat resulting in apprehension and incarceration and that may not be an option they are willing to accept.

Should discovery of an intruder escalate to a situation where lethal force is legally justified, I'm going to use it. I have no idea of this person's skill or if he is alone or not. I am going to remove the threat as effeciantly as possible, and that means he either surrenders or is shot till he stops via death or common sense, which ever takes hold first.

If he decides to flee at the sight of the gun so much the better. Let him go.

Fourth, as far as the bat is concerned...not exactly a great close quarters weapon, if you're confronted in a hall or small room you may not get the room to get a good swing.

Not sure if our Canadian friend is a bachelor / parent or not but if some thug has your wife or child at knifepoint what would you rather have, a bat or a gun?

Not that I'm advocating everyone should take the shot in a possible hostage scenario, that's up to each individual (and their spouse) and the skill level of the individual.

Besides, I don't play baseball what the heck do I need a bat for anyway?

OP, much like yourself and wife, I was reluctant to buy a gun. I am 38 years old with a wife and 10 year old daughter. I have never "needed" a gun in 38 years, but I decided with the way crazies are in America right now I am going to protect my family and our home to the best of my ability. My wife and I sat down and had a serious talk about guns and decided we both wanted to get them. Before I bought my first gun I bought a bio metric safe that I practiced getting into to see how quickly I could access my gun in an emergency. I can access my gun in about 2 seconds flat. After I got that down then I started looking for my first gun. I started with a .22 caliber pistol to get used to shooting. Nothing fancy, just a good reliable semi automatic 12 rounder that I can squeeze off pretty quickly. And accurately too I might add. My first trip to the range went as expected, I wasn't as accurate as I had hoped. From 30' on an 8" target I was grouping 12 shots within a 6" group. After some tuning on myself, breathing and relaxing exercises on my second trip to the range from the same 30' I was grouping 12 shots at no more than 3". This was only my second time shooting this particular gun. Now, I just bought a better 380 auto pistol with Crimson Laser grips and love it. I haven't been to the range with it, i just bought it last night. I know it will have more recoil than the .22, so I will have to adjust for that once I get to the range. Now, on to the tough question. Would I ever use my gun if needed? Absolutely! If someone is trying to get in my house, they are obviously not invited, so they are not welcome and in my eyes they are there to harm my family. Do I want to harm another human being? No. But I will not allow myself to be harmed if I don't have to. Remember, you can't protect yourself if you aren't prepared. Just make sure you spend some time at the range with your wife, and if you can afford to, take some safety and training classes. Remember, be safe no matter what you do.

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Hello, I am new to the forum and being a Canadian, yes let the bashing begin. From an outsiders view I cannot help but think that your country is messed up. Home invasions, etc. and all this fear of government hidden agendas, I am surprised that half of you dont have bomb shelters. Please explain all this " The sky is falling mentality"? I don't want to criticize, but I can't help but think that gun control needs to be done. Sure I would like to walk around packing, its all the other people packing that concerns me. I haven't been in a scenario that a baseball bat wouldn't fix. I do own guns (hunting) and they are all locked up in a safe. I took my restricted course to purchase a handgun for range shooting as that is the only place to shoot.
Yeah I know we are bleeding heart liberals and whatever else you guys think, but if someone breaks into my house to steal something, should they loose their life because of it? What if it were a young man that choose the wrong path in life and made a poor decision? He is now dead.
Let the flaming begin... thank you

If he breaks in your home and ends up dead because of it... you must remember that was his decision, not yours. He obviously thought it was worth the risk. I am sure he did not break in to have a glass of milk from your fridge and cookies from your cupboard. Do you have a wife and children? Do you have a daughter? Do I need to say more? Remember this. If you need a gun nothing else can take its place. The old saying goes here. I would rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. Just know your firearm (practice, practice, practice) and respect it and know what it can do and it will serve you well if needed.

Your being Canadian is of no consequense. Not sure why you even mentioned it.

There was a time when I had a 12 gauge pumper pointed at the head of an individual on the other side of a sliding glass door while I told him if his foot came across that threshold he would die...all the while the 911 operator was telling me that they are on the way and to put down the weapon...(ah...I don't friggan think so girlie)

You could just see he wanted inside the house in the worst way..he'd take a step forward then think better of it every time I said, "I WILL kill you"...he took off when he heard the sirens.

With gun pointed at his head, he still needed sirens before he retreated? Wow, that takes a special kind of stupid.

this thread just reminded me of a sign i saw at the farm store earlier this week. maybe some of y'all might be interested in such a thing.

no one would ever see it at my place or i would have picked one up.

Cavere-Are you a NRA Member? If so, good for you. If not-Why not? Their American Rifleman mag has at least 5 stories an issue about home defense gun use. My wife and are both retired LEOs and used guns in self-defense for years, so I know it works. As an Instructor I taught many female officer to shoot with full power LE weapons, mostly 40s and 45s. For a gun shy newbie a 38 Special revolver/ 9mm auto will be easier. A .22 pistol/rifle is easy and fun to shoot and is easy to train basics for a newbie. Example of a female using gun to defend herself and kids-16yr old girl home alone had 2 hispanic male felons invade her home while babysitting her siblings. They retreated to a master bedroom where her family guns were secured. She warned them to go away, they didn't. She was trained to use a shotgun as a skeet competitor and did so very well in this case. USA 2 Mexico -2.

I have been away from this thread for awhile. I understand where a lot of the mixed opinions are coming from. I think that house layout dictate what HD weapon would be best. In my house the hallway leading to the bedrooms is upstairs but also very narrow. A bat would not work well. I have since purchased a 9mm and a .22. They are not kept loaded and chambered but in current situation it would take about ten seconds to insert the loaded mag chamber a round and take a defense position protecting my wife and children. This would also leave the perp two exit locations to flee which is ideal. I have also taken a concealed class and am waiting for my permit to arrive.

I am not currently an NRA member. I am doing more research into it. There are many things they do which is great. Some other things I find to be a little too far for my views. I know many disagree and that's fine.

Originally Posted by Cavere

I have been away from this thread for awhile. I understand where a lot of the mixed opinions are coming from. I think that house layout dictate what HD weapon would be best. In my house the hallway leading to the bedrooms is upstairs but also very narrow. A bat would not work well. I have since purchased a 9mm and a .22. They are not kept loaded and chambered but in current situation it would take about ten seconds to insert the loaded mag chamber a round and take a defense position protecting my wife and children. This would also leave the perp two exit locations to flee which is ideal. I have also taken a concealed class and am waiting for my permit to arrive.

I am not currently an NRA member. I am doing more research into it. There are many things they do which is great. Some other things I find to be a little too far for my views. I know many disagree and that's fine.

Why keep your guns unloaded? Honestly an unloaded gun in an emergency situation isn't worth much. I keep both of my guns with loaded magazines and the safety on. I don't keep a round in the chamber, but I can flick the safety down and chamber a round in about 1 second. I understand its a safety concern, but in an emergency situation you may fumble and drop your magazine, then you are screwed! A loaded gun is your best defense against someone unwelcome in your home. It took me a while to get there too though, but after some range time, practicing for emergency situations, and just getting down what all you need to think of in case of an emergency, my guns are within an arms reach away from me while sleeping. They are fully loaded, and I can be ready.

Originally Posted by new guy

Why keep your guns unloaded? Honestly an unloaded gun in an emergency situation isn't worth much. I keep both of my guns with loaded magazines and the safety on. I don't keep a round in the chamber, but I can flick the safety down and chamber a round in about 1 second. I understand its a safety concern, but in an emergency situation you may fumble and drop your magazine, then you are screwed! A loaded gun is your best defense against someone unwelcome in your home. It took me a while to get there too though, but after some range time, practicing for emergency situations, and just getting down what all you need to think of in case of an emergency, my guns are within an arms reach away from me while sleeping. They are fully loaded, and I can be ready.

You are correct a loaded gun can be your best defense. You should load yours as well....Having a weapon with an empty chamber puts you at risk as well. You might forget, you might cause a stoppage. If it is a defensive weapon it should be loaded, chambered and ready to go.

It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.

Originally Posted by Cavere

It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.

Absolutely, you have access if needed. All situations are different. The people who point fingers are not always in a perfect defense situation themselves

I raised2 kids, and never locked up my firearms. NEVER once did they bother them. We would go shooting many times during the week, and every week end. At age 5 my boy could easily put a .38 rd through the head of a silhouette target at 50 yds. My daughter the same. Both enlisted in the Marine Corps at 17 and my son was a marksmanship instructor.
Teaching responsibility and drilling it in to them is the key.
Teaching my grandkids will be more of a challenge.

Originally Posted by Cavere

It's something I am working on with my wife. But being two actions from a chambered round is much better than nothing at all.

Please do not take this as me being hard on you, that is not my intent. Two actions away from being chambered is still two actions away from being ready for the fight. It is a false sense of security. You have to be ready to deliver violence greater than your enemy, with the mindset that your going to win at all costs. With all of the crap flying around in an SD encounter, the last thing you should be worrying about is whether your weapon is ready for the fight....

double post...

I dunno if I'd call it a false sense of security, more of a lesser sense. The security is still there, just not quite as ready.