Eh? "Offensive load" in a pistol, which is conceptually a defensive weapon? WTF does that mean? If I wanted to go on the offense, I sure wouldn't choose a puny pistol.

I carry JHPs in all calibers. .45 ball isn't a terrible choice for defense, but there are lots of better loads.

I carry Federal 200gr Expanding Metal Jacket in my Kimber. My .357 has 158gr Semi Wadcutter in it.

My favorite revolver loads are Keith type flat nosed bullets.
BTW I carry a revolver now.

I don't like to use jacketed bullets if I don't need to. I also don't buy factory stuff to carry.

I roll my own and about 95% are 185gr/.45 LSWC's. In my .38/.357's I use a lead 125gr or 146gr LCN. My .380 I use store bought HP's. My .44/.44mag I use LSWC's 200/240gr.

Well all my JHP, aim for babies and cause cancer. When shooting they go straight for hospitals and schools.... maybe I should get some new ammo?

All of my HD/SD firearms are loaded with either Federal Hydra Shok's or Speer Gold Dot's.

Lead semi-wad cutters for my .44, Speer or Remington HP for the 9 and .45, and FMJs for gongs and paper targets.

I would question your salesman's knowledge, and the ammo he carries (Black Talon) is old stuff and not the best.

Tools are neither offensive nor defensive. It's all in how you use them that matters.
45ACP so's if the hollowpoints don't work they still make a pretty big leak.

If ball ammo was better for defensive purposes we wouldn't be having a million threads discussing different brands/designs of JHPs. Sure, a .45ACP FMJ will still cause as much or more damage than about any expanding 9mm, but why stop there? Make the biggest hole you can...a quality SD round in .45ACP, when fully expanded, will reach diameters of at least .600", some of them even pushing .750"+. That's as wide as a 12-gauge slug.

hollow points for self defense always. specifically jhp federal 9mm,147gr.hst for me.black talons may be somewhat old technology,but i certainly would not want to get hit w/one.
it mostly depends on the placement anyway. i feel i carry one of the best made.for personal defense you should choose the best.

The guy who taught my concealed carry class said he preferred FMJ for self defense in 9mm. His reasoning was all about penetration, he stated that he could shoot through a car door or similar with a 9mm FMJ where a 9mm JHP may disintegrate in a similar situation. I can see his reasoning. Not sure I agree, but hey thats why it's an opinion. I have carried with both and surely do not feel under gunned with FMJ in the tube, but I must admit I prefer a good quality JHP.

Tom

I carry Federal HydraShoks if i'm carrying .40s&w or .45acp. For home defence I have a mixed mag in my .380 of Glaser blue tip Frangibles and Winchester STX JHP's.

Originally Posted by Tscott

The guy who taught my concealed carry class said he preferred FMJ for self defense in 9mm. His reasoning was all about penetration, he stated that he could shoot through a car door or similar with a 9mm FMJ where a 9mm JHP may disintegrate in a similar situation. I can see his reasoning. Not sure I agree, but hey thats why it's an opinion. I have carried with both and surely do not feel under gunned with FMJ in the tube, but I must admit I prefer a good quality JHP.

Wow. 9mm ball generally penetrates over 24" of gelatin. That's pretty much guaranteed to go all the way through an attacker with enough energy left over to wound a second person.

CorBon DPX does very well on cars, and does not "disintegrate." All rounds that meet the FBI protocols do reasonably well on car bodies, auto glass, etc.

I think the statement may have been made as a result of the Harold Fish case in Arizona; Exhibit A was the fact that a 10mm handgun with hollow-point ammunition was used, and the prosecution stressed that Fish overreacted before ever meeting his assailant by choosing to carry that weapon and loading it with that ammunition. The prosecutor's closing remarks included, quote:

Mr. Fish shot him three times in the chest with this high powered gun, hollow point bullets, and caused his death. That’s murder.

Fish was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to ten years' imprisonment, and his case is pending appeal.

Because of this, some gun owners are downgrading their choice of caliber and cartridge so they are less likely to be accused of "overpacking". They are switching to whatever the local police department issues for duty sidearms, under the rationale that if the police figure that works, you cannot be faulted for thinking the same way.

Now, I think the whole thing stinks. That's not murder, that's SOP for anyone sho's gone through defensive handgun training. And as for the 10mm pistol loaded with hollowpoints, sounds like a hog and 'yote gun to me and you have to have SOMETHING when you're out in the middle of the Arizona wilderness.

The Fish shooting was somewhat questionable even without the 10mm/JHP issue. I lightly followed the case here in AZ, and it seemed (at least from the media) that the circumstances of the shooting were what got Mr. Fish convicted, not the gun and ammo he used.

Mr. Fish shot him three times in the chest with this high powered gun, hollow point bullets, and caused his death. That’s murder.

High powered gun? Whoever said this obviously hasn't compared a 10mm handgun to a .30-06 or a 12-gauge. Yeah it's high powered compared to a .25ACP, but it's a handgun.

Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy

High powered gun? Whoever said this obviously hasn't compared a 10mm handgun to a .30-06 or a 12-gauge. Yeah it's high powered compared to a .25ACP, but it's a handgun.

High powered cartridge... Whoever said this obviously hasn't compared the velocity of a .45 round from a 4" barrel compared to a 3" barrel, but it's TOTALLY NEGLIGIBLE.



(Oh come on FHF, you knew I had to do it hehehehe


Zhur

You are terrible Zhur, picking on FHF like that!

I use Win Ranger JHP in my .40 and 158 Grain SJSP's in my .357.

A bear tore a camp trailer open last night about 1/2 mile from where I sit so my current carry is the .357 with full power loads. It is on my side all day.

BG's and Bear better watch there step.

Originally Posted by zhurdan

High powered cartridge... Whoever said this obviously hasn't compared the velocity of a .45 round from a 4" barrel compared to a 3" barrel, but it's TOTALLY NEGLIGIBLE.



(Oh come on FHF, you knew I had to do it hehehehe


Zhur

Lol. IMO, if you can't rip a human face past the point of recognition or put a 6" exit wound on a deer, it's not high powered.

But I still feel comfortable carrying my .45 with a 3" barrel and 200gr TAPs because they are good loads for short barrels.

in regards to the fish shooting, i read about that case in a magazine last week and it worried me enough that i stopped carrying my 10mm as my CCW and went back to my USPc .40. from what the mag said the jurors were mostly swayed by the prosecution harping on the 10mm/JHP fact. also, the dead guy's violent history and concealed weapon weren't allowed into court...i'm not sure who's worse....the thugs or the lawyers...

Golden sabers or Gold Dots for me mainly. Funny thing about FMJ vs SP's or HP's----couple years ago I went looking for some 7.62x39 ammo at a local shop (this was deer hunting season mind you), and they were selling the boxes of FMJ's for more than the soft point loads. The FMJ displays were affixed with tags that read: "hunting ammo". Needless to say, I didn't say a word and bought several boxes of the soft point ammo. I went back later that week to get more. It's illegal here to hunt anything with FMJ no matter what. That same store is where I made my killer deal on my SLR-95 because they didn't know what they had. Sad to say the place changed ownership and they wised up a bit.

There were no witnesses to the Fish shooting, and he shot a man not known to him to be armed. Regardless of what it says in the gun magazines, these facts were much more relevant than the particular gun Mr. Fish used.

It would not be difficult to explain to an Arizona jury why you were carrying a powerful pistol in the wilderness. Explaining why you shot an unarmed man after shooting his dogs is a little bit trickier, obviously.