12 Gauge Pump w/ Buckshot
.45 ACP Drawer Gun
9mm/.38 Special Carry Gun
This thread and Mike's link to firearmstactical were enough to convence me that this was a good place to join so.....here I am and thanks again Mike for the excellent reading material. I unlearned a lot! I got a real validation on my choice of a new home security system as seen below (45 ACP)
I had my own opinions as to what I would use but I will defer to what my son has told me. He is currently in Tikrit, Iraq, doing the up close and dirry work. His words were "f*** the m4, f*** the shotgun, give me a pistol that will put someone down, now. In an urban scenario, mobility and lethality rule. Think about it, going up a staircase....to a second floor or a rooftop. I know it's somewhat different than your bedroom but I can't fault his logic. I want to be able to shoot and scoot ASAP.
Enough said, .45 gets my vote. He is not a big fan of the 9mm, too many double and triple taps without "hogie" going down..
My unit has kicked in plenty of doors, and none our guys want to use any pistol to clear a house - they all like their M4s. Different people have different perspectives, though, and maybe the Iraq theater is different. I've cleared buildings with an M4, and it's just no big deal. A shouldered M4 doesn't stick out any more than a pistol held in a firing position. Ditto for Low Ready. And a shotgun or M4 will put haji down much more authoritatively than ANY pistol in the military inventory.
Not sure why you can't "shoot and scoot" with a shotgun or carbine. It's no big deal, and making hits on the move with a carbine is a lot easier than doing it with a pistol. It's not like you'll be doing an obstacle course while defending your house. You might take a few steps off the line of force or to cover/concealment, but that's easily done with a long gun.
If I were in a "known threat" environment, clearing a building, especially with an unknown layout???
NO QUESTIONS ASKED... I'm carrying a short-barreled shotgun with buckshot and as much capacity as possible.
There's no pistol caliber on the planet that will put down "Hagi", or any other human target faster than a load of buck at close quarters...
12 Guage vs. M4??? The M4 gets the nod vs body armor, and in capacity.
30 round 12 gauge anyone???
But since I don't clear buildings for a living, and I don't have to worry about more than 1-3 perps at a time??? 12 Guage.
That said, I'm testing 00 Buck vs #1 Buck this week. Massad is a big fan of #1 from what I remember. I also got some 3" #1... 24 pellets vs 9...
Mike: Sir; I don't know anything about M'4's but I'll go with you "IF" you'll provide me a shotgun and some "body" to carry the shells. Aint know way in h&&l do I want to go in with a handgun. On the other hand, I want 2 shotguns, one for closets; Sir; I've had a history of ingratiating myself.
Jeff: Sir; maybe we can spend the rest of our natural lives and not have "Mike's" worry. Around the HOUSE; shotgun and we are good to go with that 'bump in the night'
Do follow up with your experiment; What would interest me: the different distances; 8'-15' maybe @5' dispersions
Jeff, this might interest you: http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_12.htm.
Google image search "handgun wounds" and then search "shotgun wounds." But again, I don't have a shotgun, or sadly, an M4.
I like my new 2-round mag extension... Should be fine for anything shy of the whole gang...
But then if the whole gan shows up: I have 40 rounds of .45ACP from the XD, followed by 27 rounds of 9mm from XD #2, and then 23 rounds of 9mm from the Kel-Tec, then another 17 loaded in Carla's P226, and if all else fails... 5 more .38 Specials in her snubbie...
Then the Air Soft AK in Mark's room...
I think 119 rounds should do...
All I'm gonna hear is the alarm and my dogs as I dial 911 and wait. Unless it sounds like the dogs need help, then I will be very careful in my attempt to give some.
My primary HD weapon is an old Rem 870 Police w Surefire X200 attached. Win 0 buck (12/.32 pellets) in tube, 1 oz slugs on stock (bear and lion wander my neighborhood).
Penetration in gel through standard interior wall:
147/9 JHP 22.8/.36
180/40 JHP 25.2/.40
230/45 JHP 29.7/.45
12g/1 oz slug 22.8/.85
12g/00 buck 23.2/NA
55/223 FMJ 16/.22 frag
75/223 HP 13/.44 frag
Don't live in trailer parks. Even #4 buck can exit one trailer and enter another 25 ft away.
I like the way the Big Dutchman thinks...anyone who will enter an occupied dwelling at night by breaking in is capable of anything...and needs to be given no warning or quarter....it's not just in the movies that a street-wise thug talks nice and then overpowers the armed homeowner...who is not trained for combat like many of us old dogs are...they had the only chance they'll get when they stood outside making up their mind.....but add a bright light to the situation, where you know you're not facing a son, daughter, or other family member who may be a bit drunky..... my answer 20 ga. pump and .45 auto...first four up are slugs...last two are buckshot...I don't want to face a perp holding a family member with a scattergun...takes too long to drop it and draw the .45...and rifle accuracy would be important in that possible situation...aimed shots are better no matter what the situation...
12g Pump, the sound of putting slug in the chamber should send most intruders running with a load in their pants.
We have a two story home, with an alarm. My wife's 9mm, my 9mm buy enough time to get the 870 and secure the kids. Bad guy(s) comes up stairs, bad guy(s) goes down. They can have whatever they want downstairs. Come near my family, and it's the last bad choice they'll ever make.
First I would wake up my wife and have he lock herself in the room with my daughter and the shotgun. Then I would grab my .45 and wait for the guy.
I have one of my handguns near me when I sleep and my dog sleeps at the top of the stairs. I would like to have the shotgun ready to go, but I don't know how to safely store it and still be ready to use within say 30 seconds. I have 5rds of 00 Buck in a elastic sleeve thingy on the stock, but still have a cable lock through the action. any suggestions?
I think its funny how many people say they would use their handgun, Don’t get me wrong I love my handguns and I am a fairly good shot but I still miss stationary targets in the middle of the day. Think about a moving target in the middle of the night and you were just dreaming 3 seconds ago, you’re not going to hit a dang thing. Get a shotgun load it 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug leave it out of sight but in reach, you will hit something I promises.
The "Street Howitzer" is always within reach of the bed! The first round up is No. 4 buckshot followed by five rounds of 00.
Most defense-minded people seem to shoot their handguns more than their shotguns. It's natural to want to use the thing you are most familiar with.
I'll pass on the slugs. Way too much penetration. I like my family and my neighbors.