View Poll Results: Which one do you choose for home defense?

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  • 12 Gauge Pump w/ Buckshot

    187 34.89%
  • .45 ACP Drawer Gun

    183 34.14%
  • 9mm/.38 Special Carry Gun

    166 30.97%
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by toopercentmlk View Post
    Federal Premium Hydra-shok.
    CCI Gold Dot 180gr. JHPs for me. CCI mini-mags in the .22, until I actually go hunting, then I'll grab some Velocitors.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    TOF is exactly correct. Check out the tests at www.theboxotruth.com. A shotgun loaded with buckshot (#4 through 00) goes through the same amount of drywall as a 9mm or .45 pistol, approximately 6-7 sheets, which is equivalent to three interior walls. Birdshot may go through less drywall, but being designed to kill little birds, only penetrates 4-5" in unclothed gelatin, which isn't nearly enough to reliably hit vital organs on a human, especially one clad in a coat.

    Any round that penetrates deeply enough to reliably put down a human will also go through several interior walls. Instead of trying to find a magic bullet or load, we need to learn to shoot carefully and make the hits we need to end the fight and keep our family safe.
    I love this forum.. another lesson learned by the newb here.. I guess I'm not doing such a dumb thing after all then by getting a .45 acp for the job.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    TOF is exactly correct. Check out the tests at www.theboxotruth.com. A shotgun loaded with buckshot (#4 through 00) goes through the same amount of drywall as a 9mm or .45 pistol, approximately 6-7 sheets, which is equivalent to three interior walls. Birdshot may go through less drywall, but being designed to kill little birds, only penetrates 4-5" in unclothed gelatin, which isn't nearly enough to reliably hit vital organs on a human, especially one clad in a coat.

    Any round that penetrates deeply enough to reliably put down a human will also go through several interior walls. Instead of trying to find a magic bullet or load, we need to learn to shoot carefully and make the hits we need to end the fight and keep our family safe.
    This is why the wife and I havent bought a shotgun. If god forbid someone broke in and made it up the stairs shooting them in the hallway puts my daughter on her captains bed in harms way(she wold be behind the perp). With a pistol we have a good chance of hitting the perp and not hitting her. Of course the likelihood of someone making it past the $1k alarm system (little yipping chihuahua) is slim to none.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahlquist View Post
    This is why the wife and I havent bought a shotgun. If god forbid someone broke in and made it up the stairs shooting them in the hallway puts my daughter on her captains bed in harms way(she wold be behind the perp). With a pistol we have a good chance of hitting the perp and not hitting her. Of course the likelihood of someone making it past the $1k alarm system (little yipping chihuahua) is slim to none.
    That's one way to look at it. However, even from an open-choked shotgun, the pattern only spreads about 1" per yard or less. Thus, unless you have a huge home, the shot spread isn't going to be terribly wide. Shoulder weapons are also much easier to shoot well under stress versus a handgun. The vast majority of people will hit much better under stress with a shotgun than with a pistol.

    Anyway, if your backstop is your daughter's room, you should give some extremely serious thought to reconfiguring your fields of fire or changing your tactics. There's no way in hell I'd even think about launching rounds with my daughter directly behind the bad guy.

    A "good chance"?!?!?!?
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  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    That's one way to look at it. However, even from an open-choked shotgun, the pattern only spreads about 1" per yard or less. Thus, unless you have a huge home, the shot spread isn't going to be terribly wide. Shoulder weapons are also much easier to shoot well under stress versus a handgun. The vast majority of people will hit much better under stress with a shotgun than with a pistol.
    While you have a very good argument here, the tactics are odd due to our floor plan, daughters room is beside stairs to floor below, A determined perp could be in the front or back door and at our bedroom door in 4 seconds. Thats the reason for the dog and he will have company soon (he is currently barking at a possum right now).

    Anyway, if your backstop is your daughter's room, you should give some extremely serious thought to reconfiguring your fields of fire or changing your tactics. There's no way in hell I'd even think about launching rounds with my daughter directly behind the bad guy.
    In all but the most brazen and well executed home invasion we should be able to eliminate the issue by stepping into the hallway (her room and bed it diagonal from ours).

    A "good chance"?!?!?!?
    ok a well tested response?

    Bottom line is yes given a better floor plan it would be non issue.

  7. #56
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    I think you need a bigger dog.
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  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    I think you need a bigger dog.
    Wont argue that point, but so far I havent felt like putting a fence on our lot. Besides if he hears a car or even keys jingle he goes ape but he is well behaved enough that when the chain gangs come down cleaning the right of ways he barks from the yard instead of getting too close. He also saved this house from burning down right after we moved in too, the water heater in the garage caught fire and he barked non stop till my wife went out and put the fire out with our extinguisher.

    Remember the size of the dog doesnt matter if there is a big enough bite thats got his back..

  9. #58
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    If you view him as a (very!) portable alarm, that's fine. Good on him for saving you from the fire, by the way! I was mainly kidding - my own dog is a gentle Australian cattle dog. I have no interest in the fighting breeds.

    But of course a bigger dog may slow down the intruder and give you more than four seconds to mount a defense. Then again, some people crate their fighting dogs if there's a fight brewing.

    Getting back on topic, does anyone have an 18"-20" 870 barrel in 12 gauge they want to part with?
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  10. #59
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    I grab my 9mm on the way to my 12 ga...
    If 1 gun is good 2 is better...

  11. #60
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    Mike,
    I bought mine brand new through Midway for under $100. Mossburg brand 870 barrel. Blued, to match my gun, or flat if you want. Works great. Fits perfect.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...264&t=11082005

    Jeff

  12. #61
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    Thanks, Jeff. I've had my eye on that very one, for when I redeploy back to the States. Always looking for a bargain, though!
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  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by khellandros66 View Post
    .38 special with Glazers, this way I do not put family members or neighbors at risk of being hit by a stray round while sleeping. (I know a single round is not always a death dealer but thats why we use the two to the belly one to the head method.. you know the rest, if you don't well you aren't prepared to make this sort of judgment as a gun owner and are better off using other means to protect you, and your loved ones)

    Shotgun is a horrible choice, cause in a one on one struggle it can be used as leverage against you. Especially if the assailant(s) use the element of surprise or has an advantage in height/strength.

    .45 risks to be too powerful, and can go through an attacker, a wall and into someone else that you don't want it to.

    ~Bobby
    A shotgun shell can do some serious damage at close range. My bedside companion would deliver 3 .410 #4 and then 2 .45 hollow points. I don't think I would have to use the .45's!

    I just hope I never have to find out.

  14. #63
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    I second the chihauhau (mine's 3.2 lbs of pure terror), but if that didn't work I guess I'd grab my Glock. That and my trusty Red Ryder 200 shot Air Rifle!

  15. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattkats1 View Post
    That and my trusty Red Ryder 200 shot Air Rifle!
    Okay, I will insert the obligatory Christmas Story joke: You'll put his eye out!
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  16. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Okay, I will insert the obligatory Christmas Story joke: You'll put his eye out!
    hehe I'm shocked it took that long for someone to quote that incredible movie! Good job!

  17. #66
    mc2
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    Id grab my Glock 19 9mm because i'm its reliable, and acurate. I beleive the first shot will be key in making sure I come out on top..

    You also cant go wrong with the sinister sound of racking a 12 gauge shot gun..

    ------

    Also I recommend that you prepare yourself in the event of a home invasion. I personally set my alarm to wake me up iin the middler of the night to trigger a "breakin drill." I go for the glock 19 (unloaded) and pretend he's walking around while i wait to ambush him.


    I've got two mags ready with Corbon JHP rounds for the necessary stopping power.

  18. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    Also I recommend that you prepare yourself in the event of a home invasion. I personally set my alarm to wake me up iin the middler of the night to trigger a "breakin drill." I go for the glock 19 (unloaded) and pretend he's walking around while i wait to ambush him.
    Rehearsals are a very good idea, not just for home invasions, but for things like fires. Having done it a few times beforehand is way better than making it up on the fly, under stress. I don't know that I'd go so far as waking myself up in the dead of night to rehearse - the chances of an ND increase tremendously when groggy - but rehearsals are a good idea nonetheless. This is particularly so if your home defense plan requires you to move, like to a kid's bedroom, big closet, etc.
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  19. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    But of course a bigger dog may slow down the intruder and give you more than four seconds to mount a defense. Then again, some people crate their fighting dogs if there's a fight brewing.
    Well Mike, I got to see my puppy in action the other night. After sitting in the deck closet for nearly a half hour with no action from the mice, I decided to go back in. Being fully clad in camo, balaclava, and goggles, my dog did not recognize me when I came to the glass door. She went into a frenzy of barks and growls, flew straight to the door, and made more noise than a bomb going off. I went with it and slowly slid the door open, then crept toward her. She kept about a six foot distance, but never backed down. I was hoping she'd pseudo attack me, but again she's not even ten months old, so she's still a pup and really can't be expected to display much aggressive behavior toward a BG. As she gets closer to adulthood I imagine she won't be keeping her distance if it ever does happen.

  20. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    Being fully clad in camo, balaclava, and goggles, ...
    Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that.

  21. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that.
    If you saw what our outside closet floor looked like, you'd know. It was nearly fully covered with mouse droppings. Didn't hafta be in camo, but my snowboarding gear is camo, so that's what I was wearing. Here's what it looks like since I don't have any pics:





    Goggles that I'm selling on ebay as of right now:



    It was tight. My roommate laughed at me when I came walking down the stairs but I had to stay warm somehow.

  22. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Those gotta be some bad-ass mice if you have to dress like that.
    And if you face any rats, you'd better pull out the Second Chance body armor and the Kevlar helmet!
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  23. #72
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    A little league football helmet with an open facemask should suffice, assuming I properly adjust the chinstrap. I actually have a funny story about a rat...not this past fall semester but the one before, I had just moved into my fraternity house for a year. We had the entire ceiling and floor ripped apart in the front hallway so there were tiles all over the place. I came downstairs around 2am and opened the door and there was this ginormous rat standing there. I swear the thing was damn near a foot long not including the tail. I actually thought it was a oppossum at first. I chased it into another room and called one of my brothers down and we couldn't find it. The very next night at 2am I went downstairs and there it was again, perched on a busted ceiling tile. I yelled at Scott and he grabbed this huge sword he had mounted on his wall and we went after it. I lifted every couch in that room several times and he'd swing under it but we never did find it. There were a few nooks and crannies in the room we chased it into, but honestly I don't know how it got through any of them. This thing was as big around as my neck.

  24. #73
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    Possibly you should lay off buying guns and contact an exterminator.
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  25. #74
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    Mike...I am the exterminator...rahrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

  26. #75
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    Well the Weimaraner that sleeps in the bed with us would let us know that someone was in the house. He is smart about it tho, he will wake me up by licking my face b4 he goes apeshi$,
    once I am up he is balls to the wall. I have never seen a dog get that mad about someone being in his house without us knowing, the hair along his spine stand's on end. lol then i know its time to grab the .45

    DEREK
    Last edited by bigblock10; 01-07-2008 at 02:27 PM. Reason: sp

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