Originally Posted by rfair

You H&K guy's,
What kind of accuracy are you getting compared to 1911, sig, etc...and how dependable are they? I'm liking the USP 45 and such! what about dependability and customer service of H&K?

Thanks in advance!!!

Randy

I am most accurate with my fullsize USP 45. It's not fair to say this unconditionally, however, because the USP happens to be the only fullsize handgun I own. I also have a CZ P-01 and a Sig P229 (357sig/40S&W) which are both amazingly accurate considering they're both an inch or more shorter than the USP. Because of this, I have no doubts a P226 or a fullsize CZ 75 would give my USP a run for the money.

I can't comment on the customer service of any of these manufacturers, but each one has seen anywhere from 2k-6k rounds with no failures of any kind. All of these weapons are utterly reliable if cared for properly. I believe the same can be said for anything coming from Springfield Armory, S&W, FNH, Beretta, and of course Glock.

I think the real question is what are you looking for in a handgun? I might better be able to come up with a suitable suggestion with some pointers.

My HK USP .45 is hte most accurate gun i have fired yet, but I haven't had the pleasure of shooting a sig or a 1911 that i can remember. As far as customer service I doubt you will ever need them.

Well, I'm thinking either a 220 sig or a USP compact! has to be double/single action. I like the idea of no safety on the sig. I own a SP 2022 which I like and a 92FS which I like more, a kimber pro-carry SLE 45 but don't trust the cocked and locked idea. It is very accurate but would rather have a double/single. I don't need a carry gun. I also have a 38 sp 101, star 9mm and 2 Colt SAA 45's.
I do like the looks of the USP compact but use to here if you had problem with them, it may take many months to get it fixed. in fact any H&K.

Accuracy is kind of a tricky question because a lot more has to do with the shooter not the weapon. Case in point I like Sig's but do not easily shoot them very well. Sigs are inherently very accurate high quality weapons just not when shot by me. To me they are very touchy and the slightest mistep or twitch earns me a flier. My fault not the weapon. Inherent point of aim accuracy out of the HK USP and USPc models is very good. Compared to a match grade 1911 or custom shop Sig it may lag behind a little but they are definately combat and point of aim accurate. If I was a competition shooter I would have no problem rolling with a USP. Next step up, the Expert model is reported to be very accurate and more on par with a competition gun.

Reliability is excellent and I would rate it among the best. HK is generally considered to be over built which means it is designed to be tough to break or suffer from a mechanical failure. Anything with moving parts can fail but Hk's have a very solid reputation. Wimpy and flimsy they are not.

Customer service does seem to be hit or miss. Some folks have not had any troubles at all and others have had a hard time getting help or satisfaction. Fortunately, the weapons themselves are built so well that needing customer service should be minimized. If consistent good factory support is important to you Springfield and S&W have the best reputations and might be worth consideration. Good luck with your decision but I think you are considering a good one. A lot depends on what you want to do with it.

Originally Posted by rfair

Well, I'm thinking either a 220 sig or a USP compact! has to be double/single action. I like the idea of no safety on the sig. I own a SP 2022 which I like and a 92FS which I like more, a kimber pro-carry SLE 45 but don't trust the cocked and locked idea. It is very accurate but would rather have a double/single. I don't need a carry gun. I also have a 38 sp 101, star 9mm and 2 Colt SAA 45's.
I do like the looks of the USP compact but use to here if you had problem with them, it may take many months to get it fixed. in fact any H&K.

Ok, that definitely narrows the options.

Both the P220 and the USPc (I'm assuming 45ACP) are great handguns. As I said before, I don't think you can "go wrong" with any of the major manufacturers' products, especially these two. In an attempt to be unbiased, I am about to go into critic mode and mention the things I do and do not like about these weapons. Also, the USPc is a compact where as the P220 (and even the P220 "carry") is rather large, sometimes resulting in an "apples-and-oranges" comparison. Keep this in mind.

Pros of the P220:
-greater sight radius than the USPc
-considering Sig Arms is a firearms manufacturer, they make an incredible amount of accessories for their firearms
-easier to clean than other manufacturers' products (there are less internal nooks and crannies in Sigs)
-excellent number of submodels and variants to choose from

Cons of the P220:
-very heavy
-while safety lever is an option, it is not the standard
-slide release is behind the decocker; this is not the norm and may take some getting used to
-for its size, 8+1 capacity is a little on the short side (single stack mags)
-price

Pros of the USPc:
-very light
-regarded, disputedly, as the best compact .45 to date
-safety decocker provides both SA/DA and "cocked-and-locked" carry
-designed to withstand tens of thousands of +P ammo

Cons of the USPc:
-rails require proprietary crap; they're not standard rails
-shorter slide and barrel may impede accuracy
-mediocre sight radius (due to shorter slide and barrel)
-although different variants exist, they're nearly impossible to find
-price AND availability

Thanks you guys for the great responses! I do have one more question on trigger pull on the H&K's. what weight da/sa are they? and are they crisp?

Originally Posted by rfair

Thanks you guys for the great responses! I do have one more question on trigger pull on the H&K's. what weight da/sa are they? and are they crisp?

I don't have the numbers off the top of my head but overall I like them very much. The newer H&Ks (p2000, P30, HK45 lines) have more trigger reset than desired, but the break is crisp, there is absolutely zero creep, marginal overtravel, and pulls from both DA and SA are smooth and consistent. Since I did some comparisons to the P220 earlier, I suppose it's relevant to mention I believe the P220 trigger action beats the USPc by a hair.

There is some guy who posted a youtube video where he rips apart the H&K trigger action, mostly the glove guard (or more accurately his lack of understanding the glove guard) and the fact that the trigger can bend (although it takes much more force to do this than is required to fire it). In complaining he also reveals his bad habit of using the wrong part of his finger when firing. The short version is, this guy is complaining about things he doesn't fully understand, so take anything he says with a grain of salt....doing my best to be nice here....

He probably works for Obama!
wonder if he paid his taxes!!

I found the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xay1-w4vmY0

Maybe I am being an H&K loyalist, but I really think this guy is not qualified to provide a knowledgeable review.

One of the first things he says is "It's a good gun... has a lot of great features..." then neglects to MENTION any of them! I thought this was supposed to be a review!!

Ah well. I posted this because I was wondering if anyone found this review to be worthwhile. I personally think it's garbage.

Originally Posted by literaltrance

Ah well. I posted this because I was wondering if anyone found this review to be worthwhile. I personally think it's garbage.

Thanks for the vid. I wouldn't say it's garbage, there just his opinions from his own perspective, I don't agree with him on a few things but that's fine.

Originally Posted by unpecador

Thanks for the vid. I wouldn't say it's garbage, there just his opinions from his own perspective, I don't agree with him on a few things but that's fine.

What really got my goat was when he compared the USPc 40S&W to a fullsize 9mm Glock 17 then said the ammo capacity in the USPc was lacking. I suppose it's lacking when compared to an AK-47, too.

Ah well, if you got some useful info from it, more power to you. All I got was irate.

I didn't get any useful info from it.

Actually usp's are great guns. Shoot well. I have shot my buddy's full size usp .45 and the usp compact .45. I was actually able to buy a new ruger .45 and out shoot both. I mean it wasnt night or day, but my groupings were tighter with my ruger. Now shooting the .45 uspc compared to my cousins baby gock 27 I was actually alot better with the glock. But then out of 6 of us 4 of us had never shot either. All of us shot the glock better than the H&K. Which was funny because everyone swears that the .45's will be slightly more accurate due to the snappy nature of the .40.

Now I dont know about you. But for me the $200 plus price tag really isnt worth it. My friend swears that the H&K is the best money can buy and nothing shoots better or close to it. Though his grouping with an 1/4to a 1/2 inch tighter with the g27.

Now if I was collecting guns, wanted a variety and had the money, or was just a die hard nut about H&K then I would get one. Will I rag anyone for buying on...NO! They are good guns. I shot both of his well. But not good enough to jusftify the extra money.

So to take this big long thing and us a short answer which I should have done. Yes the accuracy is good with the USP.