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  1. #1
    Smithy's Avatar
    Smithy is offline Junior Member
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    Planned 410 defensive loads work as designed.

    A bit worried to post here since being new to the site and also seeing no other posts other than the four stickies that were here prior to my post? Well just a few months ago and until present (not yet illegal as I know it?), I bought and picked up the Rossi Circuit Judge revolving "RIFLE" in 45LC/410. You see I live in California and ever since that darn movie with......? Well actually I cannot name the famous male actor that stars in the movie and it's series (about three movies or so), but he had an American Derringer in 45LC and 410 shotshell that he carried around as a detective for SFPD I think? Well in one section of the movie he had mentioned to a fellow officer that he carried the most powerful handgun in the world (ahla Clint Eastwood and the model 29 "Feel lucky, punk!" type of fame) and stated that with the shotgun ammo loaded into it, it would "Take a guy's head off" and unfortunately the CA DOJ folks watched that movie and the balance that came with it (the other two movies in the series). Well the DOJ was working overtime in finding out about this handgun that could take a guy's head off. The legislature was hard at it as well. No laws passed, just existing laws modified to state that if a gun could chamber a shotgun round then it must be a shotgun, ergo the American Derringer in 45LC/410 when loaded with shotshells became a sawed off shotgun. Bummer! They later changed the law to eliminate ownership of the gun itself besides just having one with the shotshells in place. And now with the CA Safety Roster, there are NO American Derringers (or Bond far as that goes) that can ever enter the state.

    So when the BATFE came around and TOLD California that BATFE and it alone has the power to name a gun one way or the other and they had already determined that the Rossi Circuit Judge was a revolving rifle and not a revolving shotgun (CA has a specific law against revolving shotguns) that CA had to allow acceptance of the gun unless it wanted to get involved with interstate trade (a Federal matter, not one for the States) and the fight that would produce then maybe the State should just back off. The state already got its hand slapped over the ban on out of state sales of ammunition and had to back off courtesy of the Ninth Circuit Court and didn't want to look stupid yet another time, momentarily allowed the Circuit Judges to be sold in California. That was my chance and boy did I take advantage of it, picking one up in stainless steel. Then the modifications began.

    First off I found that a Taurus tracker pair of grips fit the frame perfectly with exception of the location of the grip frame screw. A simple center punch for the grip attachment hole and I knew where to drill and tap for this metric threaded hole. Grips fit like a champ, but that made the overall length a bit off and I had a sawed off rifle/shotgun for a second. The frame and barrel was then taken off, an adapter turned enlarging the barrel OD to the ID of some stainless tubing and the whole thing was welded in place. So I now have a legal length both overall and barrel for a shotgun even though it was termed a rifle, this would cover the times that I had shotshells in the gun. Now to the ammo.

    Buckshot was a bust, because buckshot in the three pellet layers (like 12 gauge is done) would give me three pellets of BB sized shot per layer. 000 ought buck would allow three pellets only out of a 2.5 inch hull so I went to brass hulls and a different approach to the pellets themselves. I started with a Lee 18 cavity mold in 000 ought buck. The cast pellets were then separated with the scrap going back into the pot. Laid on a jewelers block each pellet was given a whack or two with a hammer to flatten two opposing sides of the otherwise round ball. I then used my multipurpose pliers in pin nose mode to hold the flat sides of the smashed pellets to give a couple of 90 degree whacks to the same ball. Now my round ball was four sided except for the top and bottom rounded ends. It was then passed through a Lee .339 bullet sizer to even out the corners. I then have an all in one gas check maker die that punches out circles of aluminum (.014 thickness) and then the other side of the die made those circles into a .340 gas check. Using the same Lee .339 bullet sizer but this time with a punch from a .308 sizing die I was able to resize the gas check into one that would be .339 in diameter. So now lead and gas check were separate and of .339 in diameter. So now with some swaging lube those two parts went into a Corbin weight adjusting core sizer and out came a fully expanded gas checked lead cylinder with an overweight lead pin hanging out the front of the cylinder. This pin got snapped off and the top was tapped with a hammer to flatten out the cylinder tops.

    Once four such cylinders were made, they'd all go into a Corbin HC-2 knurling tool to impart a diamond pattern across the entire outside surface of the cylinders. This diamond pattern allowed the cylinders to hang onto a Ballistic Products Long 410 Wad. Another hand held punch and homemade tool allowed me to make four 3X5 card wads in the same caliber. These wads help in separating the cylinders upon firing and the stack of lead cylinders and card stock wads was perfect for filling out the BP plastic 410 wads. With a load of Lil Gun, the brass hulls and plastic BP wads, all I added was a couple of their Micro card wads to even out the top of the load and an overshot card wad and of all things a 7mm Remington magnum sizing die to impart a nice roll crimp on the load and off I went to the range.

    One other thing I did to the Circuit Judge was to replace the aluminum rail with one of solid stainless steel and some 35mm rings for the bell of the ballistic flashlight and a homemade bushing for the reduced diameter of the rear of the flashlight in these large rings. Now I can put the flashlight on strobe flashing out 500 lumens of bright blinding light, easy as anything for the shooter to see, but heck for the bad guy and when needed a quick couple of pulls of the trigger and a dozen or more of these tumbling pellet cylinders all go out in the general focal point of the strobing flashlight. I had all of this in my mind and on a napkin months earlier, but have since found out that it works just as designed. I have about four or five different steel dies (all for different calibers) to fully reload the brass 410 loads on my single stage press and the projectiles work as designed. I just love it when a plan comes to fruition. Smithy.

    P.S. Here are a couple of shots of the work on the Circuit Judge. Super Circuit Judge Photos by 5kwkdw3 | Photobucket

  2. #2
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    What a lot of work, for such a little result!
    I suggest that you will have much more useful effect on any oncoming bad guys, if you learn to shoot a pistol accurately, quickly, and well while under pressure.
    And if you want to use a shotgun, then by all means buy a real shotgun. Hybrids like the "Judge" series do nothing well.

    (And then there's the ongoing problem with Taurus's quality control. Buying a Taurus gun is a kind of crapshoot: Some buyers get good stuff, and many get bad stuff.)

    But I really, really like your double dulcimer!
    (That's from an old banjo player, now reduced by arthritis to a pair of spoons.)

  3. #3
    GCBHM is offline Member
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    I have to agree with Steve. These "Judge" products really do not appeal to me in the least. They are too big for carry, and the rounds are just entirely over kill. Nothing against the 410. I even have a 45LC/410 derringer my father gave me years ago, but I don't use it for anything. We have a few shotguns in the house, two 12 ga. and one 20 ga., and I intend to get a tactical 12ga for myself, but I just do not get into all the wacky Judge guns out there. I practice often with my Glocks and can shoot them well. I've had military training to help, and I am constantly researching things just to be knowledgeable on good defense tactics. I'm going to incorporate some tactical style defense training, but nothing too deep as I don't intend to encounter the government or some private army. Just want to be prepared. You can get buckshot with anywhere from 8-15 pellets, but I have an AR-15, a couple pistols and a phone. Hopefully I can stay out of the way until police arrive to check things out if there is an intruder late at night. I usually keep a gun on my person even at home until I go to bed in the case of a home invasion, which isn't very likely in my neck of the woods, but you never know. Anyway, good luck with your endeavors. Again, I would stay away from Taurus and Rossi. Stick with proven weapons. S&W and Ruger make outstanding revolvers. Why would anyone choose anything else?

  4. #4
    Smithy's Avatar
    Smithy is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry to hear about the arthritis Steve. I had a long delay when I went through carpal tunnel surgeries for each hand individually so it was around 18 months that I was out of action. I was church organist at that time as well. I faked it OK though since no one noticed that there was musically missing material. Thank God for my two feet and the other hand during that time. Of all the instruments I've played and learned to play, the Dulcimer is the funnest for sure and that's why I had this one specially made by Ron Ewing (His First double and his last double) to quote him personally. He had to make jigs just for this one and he pitched them into his wood stove right after since he really meant it about being his last (a lot of work I guess?). Thanks for the tips guys and I'll just stick to Ruger's for now thank you. The reason I go through all the work is that I'm on disability and I'd go stir crazy if I didn't have a project or at least something to keep my mind going and designing this load was keeping my mind going. Much like any modifications I do to guns like the Circuit Judge. It's just fun and keeps me busy. Thanks again guys. Smithy.

  5. #5
    GCBHM is offline Member
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    Nothing wrong with that!

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