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  1. #1
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
    CPT.ZERO is offline Junior Member
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    Reloading 44 Mag. and 44 Spl.

    Hi there, from Italy! (excuse the basic language knowledge)

    I'm a reloader (expert?) now approaching the 44 Rem. Mag. and the 44 Special reload, to use those ammo in a Ruger Alaskan 2.5 inchs barrel.

    The matter is that I thought to drill and carry the 44 Rem.Mag., and to play (and/or) carry the 44 Spl.

    Is there anyone ready to give me some tips, suggest, considerations about the above scenario?... or better: does someone tells me:

    1. May I use the same dies to reload 44 Rem.Mag. and 44 Spl. at the same?
    2. Is the concept redoundant, due to the possibility to reload directly the 44 Rem. Mag. with very low charges?
    3. Using Vithavouri powders (I use N-340 to reload both 45 ACP and 9mmx21(italian civilian version of the 9mm Parabellum) does this same powder fits 44, and if yes, wich bullet and charge, in combination?

    ....Com'on guys!

  2. #2
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    1. If you want to use the dies for both the Special and Magnum cartridges, make sure the dies you buy are described as usable for both calibers. Most newer dies can be used for both, but in some cases, the crimping die in the magnum-only die set may be too long to allow crimping of the shorter cartridge. If that is the case, the die set is usually labeled for use in loading ONLY the magnum cartridge. Here is an example.

    Die set for .44 Magnum or .44 Special (click link to see item): Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 44 Special 44 Remington Mag

    Die set for .44 Magnum only: Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 44 Remington Mag

    2. Personally, I just use a lower-power load in Magnum-length cases, and use the bullet type to show me what the intended use is for each load. For instance, if my .44 handloaded cartridge has a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter lead bullet, I know it is a low-speed or a middle-speed target load. If it has a jacketed hollowpoint bullet, I know it is a full-power hunting or personal-defense practice load. To me, it seems to be easier to find a more accurate load in the magnum-length cases, perhaps because the distance the bullet has to "jump" to the barrel is reduced.

    If you take a measured amount a gunpowder intended for a .44 Special load, and just dump it into a larger .44 Magnum case, you may not get good results with the same bullet, as the larger internal size of the case changes the pressure of the load. In many cases, I have had to increase the powder charge slightly to get good accuracy and the same velocity as shown for the load in the smaller .44 Special case, but you MUST BE SURE that a small increase in the charge is still a SAFE load for that cartridge and and gun.

    3. Sorry, I have no experience with the gunpowder you listed.

    Good luck, and good shooting!
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  3. #3
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Niner View Post
    1. If you want to use the dies for both the Special and Magnum cartridges, make sure the dies you buy are described as usable for both calibers. Most newer dies can be used for both, but in some cases, the crimping die in the magnum-only die set may be too long to allow crimping of the shorter cartridge. If that is the case, the die set is usually labeled for use in loading ONLY the magnum cartridge. Here is an example.

    Die set for .44 Magnum or .44 Special (click link to see item): Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 44 Special 44 Remington Mag

    Die set for .44 Magnum only: Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 44 Remington Mag

    2. Personally, I just use a lower-power load in Magnum-length cases, and use the bullet type to show me what the intended use is for each load. For instance, if my .44 handloaded cartridge has a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter lead bullet, I know it is a low-speed or a middle-speed target load. If it has a jacketed hollowpoint bullet, I know it is a full-power hunting or personal-defense practice load. To me, it seems to be easier to find a more accurate load in the magnum-length cases, perhaps because the distance the bullet has to "jump" to the barrel is reduced.

    If you take a measured amount a gunpowder intended for a .44 Special load, and just dump it into a larger .44 Magnum case, you may not get good results with the same bullet, as the larger internal size of the case changes the pressure of the load. In many cases, I have had to increase the powder charge slightly to get good accuracy and the same velocity as shown for the load in the smaller .44 Special case, but you MUST BE SURE that a small increase in the charge is still a SAFE load for that cartridge and and gun.

    3. Sorry, I have no experience with the gunpowder you listed.

    Good luck, and good shooting!

    Thanks, what a wonderful answer! You see, I started to clear ideas, and I'll reload just 44 Mag. cases
    Than you for the kind attention and courtesy
    Regards

  4. #4
    TOF's Avatar
    TOF
    TOF is offline Senior Member
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    I have had excellent results with VihtaVuori powders in a .357 Mag . My shooting partner had like results with VV in his .44Mag. We have fired thousands of rounds using N340 through N110. Lower numbers (N340, N350 etc.) for practice/plinking loads and N105 or N110 for hot full power loads.

    We found that VV powders produce near zero flash when compared to powders such as 2400 while providing comparable results. N110 is the near equiv to 2400 with lower numbers being faster and yielding lower safe velocities.

    So, I take it you can carry in Italy. Is that correct?

    We also use magnum cases exclusively, just loading down to upper .44Spl or .38Spl velocities based on chrono results.

    I never liked the ring around the collor left by the short cases.

  5. #5
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    I have had excellent results with VihtaVuori powders in a .357 Mag . My shooting partner had like results with VV in his .44Mag. We have fired thousands of rounds using N340 through N110. Lower numbers (N340, N350 etc.) for practice/plinking loads and N105 or N110 for hot full power loads.

    We found that VV powders produce near zero flash when compared to powders such as 2400 while providing comparable results. N110 is the near equiv to 2400 with lower numbers being faster and yielding lower safe velocities.

    So, I take it you can carry in Italy. Is that correct?

    We also use magnum cases exclusively, just loading down to upper .44Spl or .38Spl velocities based on chrono results.

    I never liked the ring around the collor left by the short cases.

    Hi TOF,
    thank you for reply.

    me too I reloaded 38 spl and 357, same powder.I've choosed it 'cause as I told it's very good with all calibers I had (9mm, 40sw, 45 acp, 38 spl, 357)and the great new is - I see - it's good also for 44....

    Me too , I hate the collar ring caused in the cylynder by shorter ammo. All comments drives me to reload exclusively in 44 rem.mag., eventually in very low charges.

    Yes, in Italy you can buy, own, transport (till to a shooting range) every arm and ammo with a concealed licence (easy to obtain) but you can carry with a licence very difficult to obtain for normal citizens (here it's required a 'valid matter' for wich you require the 'CCW') or - as in my situation - it's free for the armed forces officers.

    ...just a curiosity: we have strange laws:
    9mm x 19 is forbidden (it's a military caliber, not allowd to citizens)
    .454 casull with short barrel it's not alluod (...'too many power in a loo easly hideable gun)
    ...or other amenityes

    I do not exactly mean to carry it as my first choice gun, but I own only self defence guns, practing them at the range.
    A gun it's not a gun, if not done or owned meaning to carry it in somehow

    Regards!

  6. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    I want to add something to CPT.ZERO's last post:

    For many years, I corresponded with a Sergeant in the Carabinieri (the Italian National Police). He made it all the way to the topmost enlisted rank before he retired.
    According to him, even he was not allowed to carry a concealed pistol for self-defense, when he was not in uniform and on duty. The concealed-carry license is just about impossible to get.
    And to get an ownership license, even he had to pass a psychiatric evaluation. He was permitted one pistol of his choice.

    Since my Italian "pen pal" was occasionally involved in, um, interactions with the Mafia, it mystifies me that his government would not trust him to carry an off-duty weapon.

    Be proud, Americans. It hasn't come to that here...yet.

  7. #7
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I want to add something to CPT.ZERO's last post:

    For many years, I corresponded with a Sergeant in the Carabinieri (the Italian National Police). He made it all the way to the topmost enlisted rank before he retired.
    According to him, even he was not allowed to carry a concealed pistol for self-defense, when he was not in uniform and on duty. The concealed-carry license is just about impossible to get.
    And to get an ownership license, even he had to pass a psychiatric evaluation. He was permitted one pistol of his choice.

    Since my Italian "pen pal" was occasionally involved in, um, interactions with the Mafia, it mystifies me that his government would not trust him to carry an off-duty weapon.

    Be proud, Americans. It hasn't come to that here...yet.
    Hi Steve.
    the concept, about police forces and gun licences, in Italy, is the following:

    that own and carry the 9mm parabellum beretta 92, also 'off-duty', and they are NOT ALLOUD to have OTHER guns, due to the principle for wich, being the 9mm parabellum FORBIDDEN to civilians, in any occasions a policeman could shot with a different calyber, mistifying the gunshooting circumstances;
    the caliber 9mm parabellum, as I told, is forbidden to the civilians: so if you find a dead with a bullet in 9mm para, it has been a cop to shoot: otherwise, if the dead has a different hole it has been a bandit

    For another reason, officers of the armed forces are alloud to have a CCW carryng CIVILIAN calibers (not 9mm para). The reason is in the terroristic risck, always potentially present in our country. That's the way it goes.

    In Italy, on 60 millions citizens, there are moreless 5 millions firearms; gun licences for CCW are moreless 100.000, and about 2,5 millions of other type of licences (to own and transport till to a range).

    I'm happy for you, Americans, and I agree as principle with the 2nd emendment, but it's also true that here it has never happen a gunfight like every friday, in one of your university

    For istance, Steve, you too know that there are States in US in wich you can carry just a banana, if you want, and States in wich a child can buy a machine-gun

    Hi Steve, shoot straight !! (... me, I already know I do

  8. #8
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    Steve,
    please gimme some good charge to load my 44: I do not want to HIT a target, I want it to EXPLODE !

  9. #9
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPT.ZERO View Post
    ...[T]here are States in US in wich...a child can buy a machine-gun. ...
    Um, no, there aren't.
    Not legally, anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by CPT.ZERO View Post
    Steve,
    please gimme some good charge to load my 44: I do not want to HIT a target, I want it to EXPLODE !
    I don't shoot the .44 Magnum, nor do I shoot the .44 Special. I can't help you.
    If you want a target to "EXPLODE," you need to hit an exploding target. Paper targets will never "EXPLODE," nor will cans. Bottles will "EXPLODE," but then you have to clean up the broken glass. An old TV videcon tube will not only "EXPLODE," but it will also send the tube's neck up into the air like a rocket.
    In my mind, making targets "EXPLODE" is pretty silly anyway. Sorry.

  10. #10
    TurboHonda's Avatar
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    Exploding targets are not silly at all. My favorites are ice cubes and vanilla wafers. .22's will work just fine on them and there's no cleanup afterwards.

  11. #11
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboHonda View Post
    Exploding targets are not silly at all. My favorites are ice cubes and vanilla wafers. .22's will work just fine on them and there's no cleanup afterwards.
    You're right, and I concede the point.
    My real objection was the Good Captain's desire for (paraphrased) "a .44 Magnum load that would make targets EXPLODE!" (His emphasis, not mine.)
    Yes, one can make harmless targets explode harmlessly. Yes, it's fun. And, yes, one needn't use a .44 Magnum to do it.
    Indeed, probably using a .44 Magnum in such a case would be somewhat unsafe, as well.

  12. #12
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboHonda View Post
    Exploding targets are not silly at all. My favorites are ice cubes and vanilla wafers. .22's will work just fine on them and there's no cleanup afterwards.
    ..Gentleman, I was joking: obyiously I was not talking about targets in a shooting stand, but about targets in self-defence !!
    ...I was joking, anywhere! Regards

  13. #13
    Roberto is offline Junior Member
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    Hi
    Hello everybody need and advise about 44 mg reloading i have 240 lead swc and vithawouri 340 but i don't find reLoading data i usevb 6.2 grain in my 45 acp 5 grain in my glock 9x21 with excellent result still testing in 357 colt python but i did not find anything on 44 mag can help pls

  14. #14
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    I have a lot of experience with 44 Magnum revolvers, and reloading. Personally, I never use 44 Special brass when I reload for my 44 Magnum pistols. Instead I download the longer 44 Magnum cases to lower velocities. Makes things so much simpler; and I don't have to use a .125 spacer ring underneath the belling and crimping dies in order to go from 44 Special to 44 Magnum cases.

    I, also, dislike having to constantly adjust and readjust my dies sets between calibers. Me? I'd sooner buy two die sets rather than fiddle around between Special, and Magnum dies. (Especially on a progressive toolhead.) Neither do I have to worry about crapping up the front of my 44 Magnum cylinders with powder and firing residue from the shorter 44 Special cases. Here's the Vihtavuori information you're looking for:

    LoadData: .44 Remington Magnum (Vihtavuori Reloading Guide 6) Charge and Load Information/Data for the .44 Remington Magnum (Vihtavuori Reloading Guide 6).

    http://stevespages.com/page8c.htm (You might have to grant special permission for this site to run on your computer.)



    NOTE: I don't know whether or not you'll understand; BUT 9 x 19mm is A MUCH BETTER SELF-DEFENSE CARTRIDGE than a heavy recoiling 44 Magnum could ever hope to be. (And I don't care how well you shoot!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I want to add something to CPT.ZERO's last post . . Since my Italian "pen pal" was occasionally involved in, um, interactions with the Mafia, it mystifies me that his government would not trust him to carry an off-duty weapon. . .
    RED ALERT -THREAD HIJACK !

    Back in the '70's, a group of couples went out to dinner about once a month.
    One guy ALWAYS wore a sport coat. Even in our Michigan humid summers.
    My wife was mystified. "Why does he do that?". I said, ask him.
    I said, maybe he has sweaty armpits in the summer, and he's cold in the winter.
    She didn't want to pin him down or embarrass him.
    Which was good. She hated (still hates) firearms. Uh, that would be my "ex-wife".

    I knew why. At the time his FBI assignment was doing the monthly probation interviews
    for two of Detroit's finest. Uh, mobsters that is. He carried a .357 Mag revolver.
    He always appreciated they showed up with "several foot soldiers".

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboHonda View Post
    Exploding targets are not silly at all. My favorites are ice cubes and vanilla wafers. .22's will work just fine on them and there's no cleanup afterwards.
    Water-filled milk jugs. The bigger and faster the bullet, the bigger the splash. Fine handgun target at 25 yards.
    My .22LRs are a "bit weak". And on up through my handguns to my .454 Alaskan with full-power hunting "Partition Gold" hollow-points.
    It is a "Just magnificent" end to a video. It should be for $2 a pop.

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