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  1. #1
    Alpacino is offline Junior Member
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    Hello New to the forum

    Just bought my springfield XD 45 today haven't shot it yet but I have shot it on the range. Have a couple questions though. How do you know if what I bought wasn't a gun that was used by a buyer maybe once at the range and wasn't happy with it and decided to return it, or if it's a rep. sample.

    The reason I'm asking is that I noticed an abnormally amt. of black powder in addition to the normal oil and grease. Is this normal? I don't remember this with my glock 23. Not that the dealer would do that? but how would you know?

    My glock came with 2 casings sealed in an envelope, this XD didn't

  2. #2
    leam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpacino View Post
    Just bought my springfield XD 45 today haven't shot it yet but I have shot it on the range. Have a couple questions though. How do you know if what I bought wasn't a gun that was used by a buyer maybe once at the range and wasn't happy with it and decided to return it, or if it's a rep. sample.

    The reason I'm asking is that I noticed an abnormally amt. of black powder in addition to the normal oil and grease. Is this normal? I don't remember this with my glock 23. Not that the dealer would do that? but how would you know?

    My glock came with 2 casings sealed in an envelope, this XD didn't
    Why would it matter? Certainly inspect the bore to make sure there's no pitting, but otherwise it takes a couple hundred rounds to break the gun in.

    My local range lets potential buyers shoot 2 rounds through a gun before purchase. Really, shooting is the only way to know if the gun really fits you. So I'd assume the gun had been fired before unless it was a special order.

    ciao!

    leam

  3. #3
    js's Avatar
    js
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    Welcome to the forum!

    I would not be to concerned about XD... Guns are test fired at the factory. When I purchased my Kimber it was extremely dirty, The only place it was fired at was the factory.
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  4. #4
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    Well, it would be fraud if they told U that - and, honestly, while that is kindof a convienience, I can't believe that a place would let people fire a new weapon. What if that occurs several times, it is no longer new.

    As for YOUR gun - JS is right - many factories test fire a gun - 1 mag usually. Some guns even come w/ a test target to show U (Walther P99s do this).

    Contact Springfield directly if U wish, and have them check the registration # to make sure no one ever registered it. If it is used, U can go back and raise all sorts of hell. I'd threaten to contact the AG's office, BBB, and just for the heck of it, the ATF - He'll probably give U whatever U want then

  5. #5
    2400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    Well, it would be fraud if they told U that - and, honestly, while that is kindof a convienience, I can't believe that a place would let people fire a new weapon. What if that occurs several times, it is no longer new.

    As for YOUR gun - JS is right - many factories test fire a gun - 1 mag usually. Some guns even come w/ a test target to show U (Walther P99s do this).

    Contact Springfield directly if U wish, and have them check the registration # to make sure no one ever registered it. If it is used, U can go back and raise all sorts of hell. I'd threaten to contact the AG's office, BBB, and just for the heck of it, the ATF - He'll probably give U whatever U want then
    While I agree with some of this, why not just go back and talk to the owner and see what he has to say? As far as the "contact the ATF" this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a long time. Why would the BATF&E need to be involved or even be interested in this?



    AND welcome to the forum, glad you're here! New guy buys cigars.

  6. #6
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    They probably won't care - I knew that when I wrote it. But, they might care if a dealer is selling used guns fraudulently as new guns. Assuming he discovers that it was actually used.

  7. #7
    2400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpacino View Post
    1) Just bought my springfield XD 45 today haven't shot it yet but I have shot it on the range.

    2) The reason I'm asking is that I noticed an abnormally amt. of black powder in addition to the normal oil and grease. Is this normal?
    1) HUH?
    2) If you shot it, how many rounds did you shoot? Between that and the factory test firing that might account for the powder residue.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    Contact Springfield directly if U wish, and have them check the registration # to make sure no one ever registered it. If it is used, U can go back and raise all sorts of hell. I'd threaten to contact the AG's office, BBB, and just for the heck of it, the ATF - He'll probably give U whatever U want then

    WTF??????

  9. #9
    Baldy's Avatar
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    Amazing...

  10. #10
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwkimber45 View Post
    WTF??????
    I bought a TRP last December... Had no registration card. I called Springfield for one. Before she would send me one, she entered the serial # I gave her into her computer - she could instantly tell that no one had ever registered the gun (so, they really do enter that card info when U send it in). She then was willing to send me a reg card so I could register the gun as new...

    That's WTF.... I only know what he told me. I'm 80% sure that his gun had some gunpowder in the barrel and maybe on the gun from only the test firing. But, it is possible that the dealer is shady and is either selling used guns, or allowing people to shoot the guns and then he still passes them off as new.

    So, I suggested that if he had doubts - the first step would be to contact springfield to see if the gun was ever registered to someone else. 2nd - there is another thread from this guy concerning this very same gun he is asking about. If I remember correctly, the guy also stated that the gun did not come with the spent casing in the envelope - this is also suspicious. It makes it appear that this gun is not new.

    If it appears to not be new, he could report the business to his BBB office for fraudulent sales. Also, the AG's office might be interested in consumer fraud - especially when it comes to firearms (a hot button issue). And finally - if the guy did it 1x, he might do it a lot - hence the call to the ATF. They may not care. But in a possible scenario where a gun dealer could be passing off used guns as new on a routine basis MIGHT interest them - as they like to hassle dealers for far less mistakes.

    So, besides "WTF" and me saying something that appears to be the "stupidest thing someone here has heard in a long time," there was a point to what I was saying.

    Obviously, U take 1 thing a step at a time. If I suspected that I had really bought a used gun that was passed off to me as new, and the dealer could not explain the discrepancies, then these would be the steps I would take to fire up a world of headaches for the dealer who wasn't dealing straight.

  11. #11
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    Hey Alpacino Welcome to the forum...

    I'd suggest going back to the dealer and making him and offer he can't refuse...


    W

  12. #12
    Alpacino is offline Junior Member
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    Haven't got the chance to call the dealer yet and question him on the fact that there is no casings. But I did take the advise and called springfield regarding to see if anybody else registered it before. In the beginning the lady was a bit rude and short, but when I explained my situation she said that there was no way to check to see if it was registered, but then back tracked and asked for the serial number. After giving the serial number she stated that she highly doubts that it was used since it was given something to fact of a September manufacture or ship date.

    She also stated that the black residue was probably from test firing the gun and it didn't really matter if the casing was not with the gun??? But considering it's still September it did give me some peace about my purchase. Needless to say I will still call them and ask.

    Thanks for all your help and input guys.

  13. #13
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    OK, well at least ya called. When I called last Dec, a woman answered and was very nice. And, I heard her key in my serial # and immediately told me no one had ever sent a card in w/ my number. She insisted on doing this before she sent me a new registration card.

  14. #14
    2400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    1) She then was willing to send me a reg card so I could register the gun as new...That's WTF....

    2) I only know what he told me. I'm 80% sure that his gun had some gunpowder in the barrel and maybe on the gun from only the test firing.

    3) But, it is possible that the dealer is shady and is either selling used guns, or allowing people to shoot the guns and then he still passes them off as new.

    4) So, I suggested that if he had doubts - the first step would be to contact springfield to see if the gun was ever registered to someone else. 2nd - there is another thread from this guy concerning this very same gun he is asking about.

    5) If I remember correctly, the guy also stated that the gun did not come with the spent casing in the envelope - this is also suspicious. It makes it appear that this gun is not new.

    6) If it appears to not be new, he could report the business to his BBB office for fraudulent sales. Also, the AG's office might be interested in consumer fraud - especially when it comes to firearms (a hot button issue). And finally - if the guy did it 1x, he might do it a lot - hence the call to the ATF. They may not care. But in a possible scenario where a gun dealer could be passing off used guns as new on a routine basis MIGHT interest them - as they like to hassle dealers for far less mistakes.

    7) So, besides "WTF" and me saying something that appears to be the "stupidest thing someone here has heard in a long time," there was a point to what I was saying.

    8) Obviously, U take 1 thing a step at a time. If I suspected that I had really bought a used gun that was passed off to me as new, and the dealer could not explain the discrepancies, then these would be the steps I would take to fire up a world of headaches for the dealer who wasn't dealing straight.
    1) Not everyone sends in a registration card to this isn’t a real point.
    2) He also said "Just bought my springfield XD 45 today haven't shot it yet but I have shot it on the range." So it seems he did in fact shoot the gun in addition to the factory test firing. That would account for the powder residue in the gun.
    3) Anything is possible.
    4) You said “Contact Springfield directly if U wish, and have them check the registration # to make sure no one ever registered it. If it is used, U can go back and raise all sorts of hell. I'd threaten to contact the AG's office, BBB, and just for the heck of it, the ATF - He'll probably give U whatever U want then.”
    5) Depending on where the gun was shipped not every new gun has a fired case shipped with it.
    6) See #3 for what you said.
    7) I still think this rant is some of the stupidest advice I‘ve heard in a long time.
    8) Why would you “assume” it was a fraudulent sale by the dealer based on the questions asked here?


    I said, “why not just go back and talk to the owner and see what he has to say?” I think this is what he needs to do first.

    Why call and him (the dealer) and “raise all sorts of hell” and then threaten him with action by the AG’s office, the BBB AND the ATF? This isn’t the way to get anything done and it sure doesn’t build and good will with your dealer. I do not understand why anyone would threaten a dealer with the ATF BEFORE making sure they is in fact a problem. That is STUPID and irresponsible! If the dealer did try to sell a used gun as new then drop the hammer on him.

  15. #15
    jwkimber45's Avatar
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    I would suggest a nice calm conversation with the shop owner 1st. Remember, you generally get more flies with honey than vingar. Up to a certain point of course. the last thing I would do would to threaten him with legal action and or calling ATF..... makes no sense at this point.

  16. #16
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    Thumbs up Talk man to man 1st....

    First of all welcome to camp....

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpacino View Post
    Just bought my springfield XD 45 today I noticed an abnormally amt. of black powder in addition to the normal oil and grease. Is this normal? I don't remember this with my glock 23. Not that the dealer would do that? but how would you know?
    A. The powder & oil issue should have discovered and addressed at the time of purchase & "IF" it did infact the pistol was "dirty". I would have used that as a bargaining chip to negotiate a better price but that's just me. Also I feel that from the second you left the shop with the pistol it became pointless, as it becomes your word against his.

    Quote Originally Posted by leam View Post
    Why would it matter? Certainly inspect the bore to make sure there's no pitting, but otherwise it takes a couple hundred rounds to break the gun in. leam
    B. Agreed, in the big picture...what difference would having a test casing make? If the XD FUNCTIONALLY SOUND & visually acceptable to you... then as Leam suggests "why does it matter"...? I also have an XD45 & they're pretty durable weapons... IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by 2400;
    "I said, “why not just go back and talk to the owner and see what he has to say?” I think this is what he needs to do first.

    Why call and him (the dealer) and “raise all sorts of hell” and then threaten him with action by the AG’s office, the BBB AND the ATF? This isn’t the way to get anything done and it sure doesn’t build and good will with your dealer. I do not understand why anyone would threaten a dealer with the ATF [B
    BEFORE[/B] making sure they is in fact a problem. That is STUPID and irresponsible! If the dealer did try to sell a used gun as new then drop the hammer on him.
    C. Well said 2400 ... if this REALLY bothers you then go talk to the shopower MAN TO MAN and settle it. In the initial purchase of the pistol you should have been able to develop a good opinion of the owner & how he runs his business. But DON'T START CALLING attorneys & Better Business & the ATF, BEFORE you try to work it out for yourselves. That's just going to hose things up worst ESPECALLY if the whole thing is just some sort of honest mistake, which is entirely possible.
    And if you discover that you infact did get dooped...THEN go after the guy but get your facts straight first, it only makes sense.

    Good points by Leam & 2400 & JW ....
    Last edited by Rustycompass; 09-29-2006 at 08:30 PM.

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