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  1. #1
    Reglarguy is offline Junior Member
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    Glock 19 v. H&K USP .40

    I'm new to handguns although I have fired off a few rounds with a friend years ago. I want a weapon for defense that is sort of medium-sized but still has one or two-shot stopping power ( I know this depends on alot of factors like placement and the bad guy etc.). I really like what Ive been reading about the G19 but a friend suggested the H&K .40 because of the slightly bigger caliber. Something I liked was the external safety because I have two young sons. Of course I don't plan to let them have access to the weapon unless we are at a range and I will set us all up for safety/use classes, but like I said I'm new to guns and cautious.

    I also understand that some like the "safe action" of the Glocks because its "ready to go" and this is after all for defense.

    I really like the look and price of the Glocks and I plan on trying them both out at a range. Can you Glock lovers tell me what you think? My main concern is the safety, I'm sure a 9mm is sufficient for my purposes wouldn't you think? Thanks for any info!

  2. #2
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    9mm is perfectly adequate for defense as long as you use good hollow point ammo. It is also less expensive to shoot for practice and recoils less than .40.

    A lightweight polymer-framed .40 auto is not one of the better guns to learn to shoot with, at least not if you want to shoot really proficiently. A well-placed 9mm will stop a bad guy much faster than a poorly-placed .40.

    (The .40 fans will soon come out of the woodwork to say the 9mm is a peashooter and the .40 is the right hand of God Himself, designed to smite the enemy from on high. This is expected on the internet and generally to be ignored.)

    As I am the leading advocate of Glocks on this forum, I will tell you that strongly prefer them to USPs. Glocks have the advantage of low bore axis (less muzzle rise) and a short/firm trigger reset. Some people do prefer the USP, however, and if you are one of them, bear in mind that you can get the USP in 9mm.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  3. #3
    Reglarguy is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the reply. Ive done alittle more research and I see the HK's are about a grand vs. about $500 for the G19. That pretty much settles that. But I see you say that this may not be the best weapon for my situation (learning to shoot with). What would you suggest and what is the rationale? Thanks again Mike

  4. #4
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    Another consideration

    You stated that you liked the idea of an external safety. Me too. You mentioned medium sized, and the $500 price range. Check into the Ruger P 95. See if it fits you hand. They are known to be very reliable. I'm sure that the Ruger guys can give you more info on that sub-forum.

  5. #5
    Reglarguy is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Drummin man I'll check that out.

  6. #6
    Spartan's Avatar
    Spartan is offline Member
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    You may also want to check into Beretta, like the 92FS. It's got an external safety with de-cocker.

    Depending on where you are, the price may be a little more than $500. Around me, they're ~ $570 (whereas the G19 at the same store is $530) but I know they can be had for cheaper. If you're worried about having an external safety because of your kids, a few extra 10's might be well worth it.

    Worth looking in to.

  7. #7
    hberttmank's Avatar
    hberttmank is offline Member
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    The 9mm with the proper ammo works well for self defense with out the muzzle blast, recoil, or cost of the 40. I have Glocks and USPs, either way you can't go wrong, buy the gun that fits you the best. I slightly prefer the USP, myself, because of the more conventional grip angle and the ability to carry cocked and locked. The USP Compact is closer to the G19 size than the full size USP. As far as price goes, the USPs can usually be found for $600 to 700. I bought a mint condition USP9Compact for $450 at a gun show, so it pays to shop around.

  8. #8
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Maybe I didn't phrase it well - I meant a lightweight .40 is a poor gun to learn on. I think a 9mm is a much better choice due to lighter recoil and less expensive ammo. Any of the 9mms mentioned in this thread would be fine, though I strongly prefer the Glock to any of them for the reasons I mentioned already.

    Additionally, if cost is a major consideration, bear in mind that Glock magazines are less expensive than any other (especially HK!). I have seen new Glock mags as low as $13.95. And also keep in mind that accessories like holsters are everywhere for Glocks, whereas with some guns they are harder to find.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  9. #9
    Reglarguy is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks everyone. Wow so much to think about and I just want to go out and shoot. It's hard to sit on my hands till I get this figured out.

    My kids are 9 and 14 and pretty level headed. I don't intend to let them have access to the weapon unless we are at a range. The rest of the time it would be used for defense when we are out camping. Then I would have it on me. I guess the real worry is droppin it and goin off.

    I like the idea of a mag disconnect too. Doe either of these have that I couldnt tell from the websites.

  10. #10
    steve24's Avatar
    steve24 is offline Junior Member
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    Why not look into a Glock 23 if you're interested in a .40? They are almost exactly the same dimension as the Glock 19.

  11. #11
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    No modern pistol will fire when dropped. All modern pistols are designed to be "drop safe." You could pitch a Glock or USP (or Beretta or SIG or S&W or Ruger, etc.) across a concrete floor. You'd scuff the finish but the gun wouldn't fire.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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    All opinions, particularly those involving politics and Glocks, are mine and not Galco's.

  12. #12
    Brian@ITC's Avatar
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    Glocks are awesome tools! I own at least one! The G19 is the gun to own in my opinion. It is ready to rock and you don't have to do much to shoot it. However, since safety is a concern, I can respect the purchase of an HK.

    I have owned a .45, .40, .357 SIG, and 9mm. To be quite honest, there is no reason to have anything larger than a 9mm. I have not seen or read any reports which have convinced me to now carry anything other than a 9mm. With a 9mm you have larger magazine capacity and quicker follow up shots. I do not personally believe in "knockdown" power with a handgun round... at least not one that you would normally carry. I once read a report that there is an opposite and equal reaction for every action. The bullet has no more power than that of the recoil. If the bullet had the power to knock someone down, then the shooter would also be knocked down from the recoil. I think that it is a matter of simple physics.

    _____________________
    Brian K. LaMaster
    Innovative Tactical Concepts, LLC
    Train hard, train often, and train realistically

  13. #13
    glockman19's Avatar
    glockman19 is offline Junior Member
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    I am a big fan of the Glock 9mm pistols. I prefer a H&K or Sig in a .40. That said I have fired but do not own a .40 caliber.I think they are a bit snappy. I prefer Glock in 9mm, 1911's in .45 and revolvers in .38/.357 and .44mag.

    I will some day add a .40 to the collection but I find it unnecessary now. as Mike said a well placed 9mm will go alot further in protectin you than a poorly shot .40

  14. #14
    neophyte is offline Member
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    Glock

    Reglarguy: Sir; 'Mike Barham' hit it square on the head.
    Ballistic's at times are deceiving, shoot-ability is key.
    9mm will do the job; in two ways, One cost per shot, equals? more shooting on your part.
    Efficiency/Proficiency comes about with practice G19 will not beat you up; nor the youngsters; should you be so inclined.
    Glocks do have safety's built in;
    THE BEST SAFETY GOING::::::: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER


    Glocksters::: of the G22 40:::: My carry.
    Should Glock design a unit; that I want; that has fell prey to external safetys
    Lordy Lordy

    Good shooting

  15. #15
    john_anderson_ii is offline Junior Member
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    I'm a big fan of .40 S&W, then again, I'm 250 lbs, built like a cube and have large "sausage hands". Not everyone is the same, so don't get drawn into the caliber wars.

    There are two rules I heard somewhere that I share with people who ask me to recommend a firearm and/or caliber:

    1.) Carry the biggest round you can fire quickly and accurately. A well placed shot is better than a bigger hole, but it's nice to have the biggest hole possible in a well placed shot.

    2.) A .22 on your hip is more effective than a .44 magnum on your closet shelf.

    There are likely several others who would tell you the same. Your best bet is to try to find a gun club where you can rent/test firearms of different makes in different calibers. I have two handguns that I carry, both 40 S&W. A Glock 23 and a HKP2000SK. I like the HK because of it's weight and size. It's easy to carry and conceal. It's like it's not even there. I also learned to love the LEM trigger in a very short time. I like the Glock because of it's ammo capacity, and I find my follow up shots group tighter probably due to the heavier frame and longer hand grip. My groups are looser with the HK, and it's only 9+1 in capacity.

    It seems everything is a tradeoff, I guess the trick is finding which trades you are more comfortable taking. For example, my friend Jordan won't carry anything without an external safety or not chambered in .45 ACP. It's just his style. You'll have to find your own, and a gun club is a good place to start.

    The most important factor of all though is practice, practice, practice. The cheapest practice comes from 9mm, but if you can maintain well placed groups with a larger caliber, that would be the safest to carry. The advice on this thread seems to steer you away from ballistics and "one shot stop" statistics. Very good advice! I'm not aware of any laws that say you have to shoot once and only once.

  16. #16
    DaveShooter is offline Junior Member
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    I salute you!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    9mm is perfectly adequate for defense as long as you use good hollow point ammo. It is also less expensive to shoot for practice and recoils less than .40.

    A lightweight polymer-framed .40 auto is not one of the better guns to learn to shoot with, at least not if you want to shoot really proficiently. A well-placed 9mm will stop a bad guy much faster than a poorly-placed .40.

    (The .40 fans will soon come out of the woodwork to say the 9mm is a peashooter and the .40 is the right hand of God Himself, designed to smite the enemy from on high. This is expected on the internet and generally to be ignored.)

    As I am the leading advocate of Glocks on this forum, I will tell you that strongly prefer them to USPs. Glocks have the advantage of low bore axis (less muzzle rise) and a short/firm trigger reset. Some people do prefer the USP, however, and if you are one of them, bear in mind that you can get the USP in 9mm.
    Mike #1 thanks for your service to your country.My hats are off to you. I agree it's all about right ammo and shot placement. I just weny back to a new glock 19 I like the round and ammo is cheaper to shoot through the weapon.
    Yes I still likes my 1911 in the good ole 45 and my e.ger makarov. In my own honest op you can get 9mm anywhere in the globe and like you said a good hollow-point makes a big dif compared to ball ammo. Again watch your 6.
    DaveShooter

  17. #17
    Desertrat's Avatar
    Desertrat is offline Member
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    I can only say that H&K's are excellent weapons, and as a Glock owner....I still appreciate a whole slew of other handguns. And as far as the .40 vs. 9mm....is has been said....a little cheaper for the ammo, FMJ's for practice especially, and if you use good quality HP's for self defense...not a problem...40's.....if ya like them better....then go for it. I would not argue with either one while it was pointed at me!!!!

  18. #18
    kashton is offline Junior Member
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    I have owned 5 guns for concealed carry use:

    1. Kimber Tactical Ultra II 3" .45
    2. Glock 23 .40
    3. Glock 27 .40
    4. S&W 642 CT .38 +P
    5. H&K P2000SK .40 V2 LEM

    After all of those I now only have 3 of them:

    1. Glock 27
    2. H&K P2000SK
    3. S&W 642 CT

    I chose each of them for their own potisive aspects. I sold the Kimber because of reliability/jamming problems, and gave the Glock 23 to my father because the Glock 27 is more concealable. The Glock 27 does not kick much either, no more than the Glock 23. I carry the S&W 642 CT when I am wearing shorts because it is only ~13 oz. It does however, only hold 5 rounds, and of .38 +P -- not that .38+P isn't powerful, I would just rather have .40 cal with me. I carry my Glock 27 three different ways depending on what I am wearing and how I feel. I carry it IWB in a Milt Sparks VMII, IWB cross-draw in a Mitch Rosen "Tito's Revenge" holster, and in my pocket in a Mitch Rosen "Pocket Softy" holster. I carry my P2000SK in a Milt Sparks VMII or a Tucker "The Answer" IWB holster. They are all fine weapons but if I was forced to pick one (though it is a very tough choise), I would pick the Glock 27. Why?

    1. It has proven to me to fire every time I pull the trigger (of course when a round is chambered).
    2. It carries 9+1 rounds (just as many as the P2000SK and 5 more than the S&W 642 CT).
    3. It can be carried more ways than my P2000SK, even though it is barely smaller, that tiny bit makes a difference.
    4. It is extremely powerful, in a very compact design. It is one of the finest concealed carry handguns you can buy.

    As far as caliber is concerned... get the one that you can shoot most accurately and train train train, train to hit those vital areas of the body. The head, the neck, the middle of the torso... hit the spine and the attacker is going down. Another place you can hit an attacker to put them down is their pelvis. I have read numerous accounts of attacks where the only shot to bring them down was to their pelvis, and this was including upper torso and chest area hits. The pelvis is also a fairly big target. Remember that if you are ever faced with this kind of situation you will only react to it, you will most likely not be thinking about it and you will automatically aim at what you have practiced for.









    Best of luck and I hope this helped some. You can PM me if you have any questios. Be safe!

    Kevin

  19. #19
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
    Randall Donahoo is offline Junior Member
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    lotza info

    You've gotten several good answers, ReglarGuy. One fact no one has mentioned is that a current generation Taurus PT Millenium Pro in your chosen caliber is also a very good and reasonably priced choice. In addition to my new Glock 20 in 10mm and a few other handguns, I have a Taurus PT145 that is small, decently accurate, durable, and exceedingly dependable. I like the 45 ACP, but the kick in a lightweight handgun might be a bit much for your kids, if you hope to teach them to properly use it as well. Also, 45 may not be the best choice for a camp gun if bear is a possible target. Big hole, but not deep enough penetration perhaps. A revolver carrying 357 mag or an auto with 10mm is the starting place for bear, I guess.

    Shop around. Yes, the Glock is a good choice, I think. So are a few other reasonably priced guns.

  20. #20
    USAFgsm is offline Member
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    As mentioned before, if you like the feel of the Glock 19 but prefer the larger .40 cal, then go for the Glock 23. Thats what I carry. It is exactly the same as the 19, only in .40 cal. and it holds 13 rounds as opposed to 15 (i think?) for the 19.

    Also, again as already stated, none of these guns will go off if you drop it. I saw a guy take a glock, load a round in the chamber, and slam it on the ground right in front of him hitting the rear of the slide on the ground. I would certainly not do that myself, nor am I saying that anyone else should do it, but the gun is designed so that it is not possible for it to fire even if you do that. Of course he picked it up and emptied the magazine without a problem

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