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  1. #1
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    Why I shoot Glocks in IPSC/IDPA

    I have only been shooting in IPSC and IDPA competitions for about 18 months.
    However, during that time, I have tried to be fairly meticulous about keeping records of my results using different handguns. What I have done is keep track of my scores using a timer (starts on audible sound and ends on last shot), shooting regulation IPSC and IDPA targets set at various distances from about 10 to about 20 yards, anywhere from 2 to four targets, each getting two shots (just as you find in most competition scenarios), and drawing from a holster. I have compared my Glock models 34 and 35 against a CZ 75 SP 01 (9mm), a Para 1911 9mm and a Para 1911 .45. If I compare the 9mm against the .45, I use minor and major scoring to reflect the difference in calibers (major basically is using a .40 caliber or above and is given more points on less than center hits on target). When I have used IPSC targets, I have used IPSC scoring and when using IDPA targets, I have used IDPA scoring. I have used Excel to set up automated scoring spreadsheets so all I have to do is plug in the time and "hits" and the program does the rest. I have usually shot 10 to 12 strings with an average of 6 rds per string.

    The results have been interesting. I really thought that my scores with the 1911s would be better than with the GLocks. My Para .45 is a 14/45 limited with no modifications. My Para 18/9 was worked on by a gunsmith to tune the trigger and make the gun as accurate as it could be.

    Long and short of the story - I don't shoot any better with the CZ or the Paras than I do with my Glocks. In fact, my Glock 34 nearly always finishes ahead of the other handguns I have used as comparisons. I have used "head to head" competitions about 25 times. Of those times, my other handguns have outperformed the G 34 4 or 5 times.

    Of course, these results are mine only and other shooters likely would have different outcomes. Nonetheless, I feel I have some solid reasons for using my Glocks in competition beyond just saying to myself: "I think I shoot as well with my GLocks as other pistols I own."

    It has been interesting to compare my handguns in this fashion. I would encourage others to give it a try if they haven't done so already and see how much fun it is.

  2. #2
    SigZagger's Avatar
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    I'm getting started in USPSA myself. Using my Sig 229. No others to compare. I haven't seen any Sig's in my local matches and that's the way I like it. Seems everyone is doing the "Glock" thing. Glock this and Glock that. Isn't mass advertising great. Remember, it's not the size of the bat or the maker, but the batter swinging the bat. I see some real neat (stock) competition guns, which I'll admit are mostly Glocks. But the guy pulling the trigger is no match for the gun. No matter what the brand. I watch the shooter, not the gun he's shooting. I will admit, I'm not going into this with blinders. The Glocks will be hard to beat. But I'm not in search of first place wins, just coming out to have fun.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigZagger View Post
    I'm getting started in USPSA myself. Using my Sig 229. No others to compare. I haven't seen any Sig's in my local matches and that's the way I like it. Seems everyone is doing the "Glock" thing. Glock this and Glock that. Isn't mass advertising great. Remember, it's not the size of the bat or the maker, but the batter swinging the bat. I see some real neat (stock) competition guns, which I'll admit are mostly Glocks. But the guy pulling the trigger is no match for the gun. No matter what the brand. I watch the shooter, not the gun he's shooting. I will admit, I'm not going into this with blinders. The Glocks will be hard to beat. But I'm not in search of first place wins, just coming out to have fun.
    In USPSA, I think you will find that 1911s dominate in terms of numbers. At least that has been my experience both in NC and in Iowa. When I shot at the NC Sectional, over 90% of the competitors by my spot calculations were shooting some form of 1911. There tend to be more glocks in production division where 1911 style guns and other s/a only guns are prohibited. In limited division, where I shot, nearly all the shooters had .40 cal. custom
    1911s that hold 20 +1 rds. I was at a distinct disadvantage since I was using stock Glock mags in my 35 that hold 15 (and I can only get 14 in them).
    I don't see too many Sigs or other styles of guns in limited didvision that don't have cocked and locked mode. However, that doesn't mean that one can't be effective with a Sig, Beretta or whatever provided you can adjust to the difference between the d/a first shot and s/a subsequent shots.
    I have ordered some mag extensions for my G 35 that will put me at 20 in the mag. Also, I'm thinking of shooting in production division with my G 34 since there is no distinction between major and minor power factor in production and the round maximum is 10 + 1.

    Anyway, welcome to USPSA shooting. I love it even if I don't do all that well.
    I hope you do too.

  4. #4
    Baldy's Avatar
    Baldy is offline Senior Member
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    In competition a man should shoot what ever he likes or does the best with. If I was you Martial I would stick with the Glocks. As long as your having a good time and enjoy it. Good shooting to you and Sig both.

  5. #5
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Martial_Field,

    Excellent! I wish all shooters (or at least those who wish to improve) would approach their shooting progress as scientifically as you do! I find it odd that shooters will buy paper targets for every range trip so they can measure accuracy, but won't bother to invest in a shot timer, which measures the other half of practical shooting skill.

    While it is generally true that it is "the Indian, not the arrow," the fact of life is that some guns are better suited to shooting fast and accurately than others. This is why 1911s and Glocks dominate practical shooting - they are simply better suited to the demands of the games (combination of accuracy and speed) than other designs, especially DAO or TDA guns.

    Some guns, like TDAs and DAOs, are specifically designed to make the gun MORE difficult to shoot, in the interests of safety. This may be useful in some circumstances, especially for shooters who aren't trained to a higher level or who handle stress poorly. This is why the military issues a TDA, for example.

    To harp again, low bore axis - short trigger travel - short/firm trigger reset. These things make for a gun well suited to fast and accurate shooting. Moving away from any of them makes a gun objectively less effective in IDPA/IPSC/defensive shooting.

    This does not mean that no one should shoot any other guns, of course. But with each step away from these three parameters, a gun becomes more difficult to shoot fast and well. There may be other features of a gun that you want, and you may need to trade one design feature for another.
    Last edited by Mike Barham; 07-12-2007 at 08:36 AM.
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  6. #6
    SigZagger's Avatar
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    martial field,

    My stock 9mm Sig 229 is in the Production Division. So, for the most part it will be little ol' me up against the Dominator Glocks. Maybe one of you Glock owners will permit me the use of your Glock. You never know, I may go over to the "Block side".

  7. #7
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigZagger View Post
    martial field,

    My stock 9mm Sig 229 is in the Production Division. So, for the most part it will be little ol' me up against the Dominator Glocks. Maybe one of you Glock owners will permit me the use of your Glock. You never know, I may go over to the "Block side".
    Any commercial pistol range should have a rental Glock or nine for you to try.
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  8. #8
    SigZagger's Avatar
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    Yes, I have fired the M17 and M26. Both seem like a fine weapon. Except for that grip angle (for me). I've got enough cash in my equipment set-up for my Sig. The season is closed for the winter, (locally USPSA is shot outdoors) so I'll practice with my Sig. I'm not one to bash any Glock product, I'm just not throwing in the towel because other shooters say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Besides, who wants to go with the status quo, things change quickly in any sport. I hear the S&W M&P is now the gun to watch for possible competition use. Who really knows? It's more fun to see one brand against another. How boring would it be to see 30 shooters all using a Glock. Different brands of golf club makers compete together why not gun manufacturers. It's suppose to be fun isn't it?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco View Post
    Martial_Field,

    Excellent! I wish all shooters (or at least those who wish to improve) would approach their shooting progress as scientifically as you do! I find it odd that shooters will buy paper targets for every range trip so they can measure accuracy, but won't bother to invest in a shot timer, which measures the other half of practical shooting skill.

    While it is generally true that it is "the arrow, not the Indian," the fact of life is that some guns are better suited to shooting fast and accurately than others. This is why 1911s and Glocks dominate practical shooting - they are simply better suited to the demands of the games (combination of accuracy and speed) than other designs, especially DAO or TDA guns.

    Some guns, like TDAs and DAOs, are specifically designed to make the gun MORE difficult to shoot, in the interests of safety. This may be useful in some circumstances, especially for shooters who aren't trained to a higher level or who handle stress poorly. This is why the military issues a TDA, for example.

    To harp again, low bore axis - short trigger travel - short/firm trigger reset. These things make for a gun well suited to fast and accurate shooting. Moving away from any of them makes a gun objectively less effective in IDPA/IPSC/defensive shooting.

    This does not mean that no one should shoot any other guns, of course. But with each step away from these three parameters, a gun becomes more difficult to shoot fast and well. There may be other features of a gun that you want, and you may need to trade one design feature for another.
    Thanks for your kind remarks. As I said in my first post, the results of my informal competitions among my handguns surprised me as I thought I would shoot the 1911s better. If I had, I probably would have purchased by now a custom 1911 in .40 caliber for limited division IPSC. I may yet do that some day but for now, I'm going to save the $3 to $4 K it would cost to get one and just use my Glocks. I am purchasing some parts for my G35 such as a Tungsten recoil rod and mag extensions for limited but I think I will leave my G 34 as is (well, I did put on Dawson fiber optic sights and I may spring for a stainless steel recoil rod) for use in production division and IDPA.

    I think you are right about some guns being manufactured to slow the shooter down and/or make the gun more difficult to shoot in the interest of safety. In my short time on the competition circuit, I have seen shooters disqualified with custom 1911s for having an accidental discharge. They get the trigger pull down to 1 or 2 lbs. in some cases so a very slight miscue with the index finger can result in an AD.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigZagger View Post
    Yes, I have fired the M17 and M26. Both seem like a fine weapon. Except for that grip angle (for me). I've got enough cash in my equipment set-up for my Sig. The season is closed for the winter, (locally USPSA is shot outdoors) so I'll practice with my Sig. I'm not one to bash any Glock product, I'm just not throwing in the towel because other shooters say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Besides, who wants to go with the status quo, things change quickly in any sport. I hear the S&W M&P is now the gun to watch for possible competition use. Who really knows? It's more fun to see one brand against another. How boring would it be to see 30 shooters all using a Glock. Different brands of golf club makers compete together why not gun manufacturers. It's suppose to be fun isn't it?
    Sig,

    Absolutely right! It's extremely fun and interesting to hear from people as to why they like this gun or that gun and for what purpose. It can be just as much fun to compare how one does using different guns in competition scenarios. To be the best shooter I can be, I should probably decide on one gun and practice constantly with it. That's what many if not most competitive shooters do. Nonetheless, I can't seem to convince myself that I should pass up the fun of comparing different handguns in the interest of shooting a course of fire with just a little better score. If I were to win the Lottery, I think I would probably buy 9 or 10 different guns suitable for competition, buy an acreage with enough room for a range and compare to my heart's content.

    Maybe after I've been shooting for several years, I'll settle on one gun or one type of gun.

  11. #11
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    I like shooting my XD's more than my glocks but I have to say I shoot better with the glocks and I think it's because of the sights. Once I change my XD sights I will know.

  12. #12
    shootingduck is offline Junior Member
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    glock in IPSC

    Hello guys, I live in Guayaquil - Ecuador, City where the last IPSC World Shoot was held at (XIV) in 2005. I have been shooting IPSC matches since 1990 and have used a lot of guns, I used STI's for 5 years, and then I discovered the Glock 35 which has given me a lot of trophies in national competitions in my country. I just finished 1st place in a level 3 match in my home city where a lot of southamerican shooters were competing.

    My performance increased with the glock 35, I am not sure why, maybe I got used to the trigger action, or maybe I am one of those guys who can't use those fine tuned sti triggers.

    As far as equipmant goes, I use arredondo base pads with glock #6 followers(latest model) which give me 17/18 rounds in .40. I also use glockmeister mag well, and aftermarket SS barrel, Hiviz front sight and original glock steel rear sight, amadini ghost holster.

    Every shooter I know in the IPSC standard division use STI/SVI or para ordanance, most people think I am nuts going 'cause I try to participate with glock against those other guns. Well at least it only takes me 2 seconds to break open a mag and clean it. I would love to see those guys do that.

    Regards.

  13. #13
    Alpacino is offline Junior Member
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    CZ SP-01 vs Glock 34 for IDPA OR IPSC`

    which one has a lower bore-axis and trigger reset. And which one would be better for the conditions for competition. If I were to get one vs the other, how much more money and work would I have to do???

  14. #14
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    The CZ SP01 actually is not a legal gun for IDPA although many local clubs may let you shoot it anyway. It is too heavy for Stock Service Pistol division, has a full length dust cover so it's not permissible in Enhanced Pistol division and isn't made in .45 so it doesn't fit in Custom Service Pistol division. If you want to get a CZ, the CZ 75 is legal in IDPA. For IPSC, the CZ SP01 is legal for production (since it can be fired double action first shot, s/a thereafter), limited or limited 10. The G 34 is legal in both IDPA and IPSC.

    Price - the G 34 will run you anywhere from $540 to about $640. The CZ 75s run about $425 to $500. The SP 01 is a little more, I got mine for $570.

    Main differences between the guns:
    1) Nearly all CZ guns are all metal. Glocks, of course, are polymer framed.
    2) The CZ 75s have a 4.7 inch barrel, the Glock 34 has a 5.32 inch barrel.
    3) The Glock has an internal striker, has a double action only trigger while the CZ's have an external hammer, have a cocked and locked mode and so can be fired s/a for all shots, or, with the hammer down to start, can be fired d/a first shot and s/a for subsequent.

    More people shoot Glocks in IDPA and IPSC than CZ's but that doesn't mean you wouldn't do better with the CZ. You will have to decide for yourself which gun feels better, shoots better etc.

  15. #15
    -gunut-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpacino View Post
    which one has a lower bore-axis and trigger reset. And which one would be better for the conditions for competition. If I were to get one vs the other, how much more money and work would I have to do???
    The CZ has a lower boar axis. I am not sure about the triggers. Around here you can get a Glock 34/35 for around $530 or so and a CZ75 for $380 and SPO1 for $400

  16. #16
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    The CZ has a marginally lower bore axis, but the Glock has a MUCH shorter/firmer trigger reset. I own both and strongly prefer the Glock to the CZ in fast shooting, though the CZ is better than most other pistols.
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