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  1. #101
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    There is an on-going discussion about this very topic on glocktalk.com;

    (CCW: One in the chamber or not? - Glock Talk)

    where some of the contributors have VERY definitive opinions. My take is quite simple.

    This is a personal decision and one should take it in light of what serves them best, not what others believe they should or shouldn't do. In the final analysis, you will only know if you took the correction decision when the time comes where you have to pull that sidearm and use it. And even then you will only know how it work for that specific and instant case.

    Personally, I won't carry a sidearm that is not in full battery and ready for use. But that's what I have determined to work for me.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by StainlessSteel215 View Post
    For those who can legally carry, either open or (preferably) concealed......do you carry your Glock with one in the pipe?

    Took me a bit of time to work up the comfort and confidence in myself and my gun to carry this way, since Glocks have no external safety, but after only a few weeks its become second nature to me. Anyone have strong thoughts for or against this? I think if you have a secure holster that completely buries the trigger you have nothing to worry about. I wear the DeSantis IWB holster around 4 o clock that provides a nice deep carry but allows me to get a decent purchase on the gun when I draw at the range.
    Since Glocks have no external (or second safety) besides the USA trigger safety we do not, and will not own any Glocks for SD, we have Springfield XD's. I consider a second safety like a grip safety an essential. Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus.

    But yea, for SD, especially carry, a round in the pipe is the only thing that makes sense. The layout of my house, alarm system and dogs that bark at anything near the hosue gives me time to rack the slide, if the closest gun is not ready. And I can determine that with accuracy by feel.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40inAVL View Post
    Since Glocks have no external (or second safety) besides the USA trigger safety we do not, and will not own any Glocks for SD, we have Springfield XD's. I consider a second safety like a grip safety an essential. Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus.

    But yea, for SD, especially carry, a round in the pipe is the only thing that makes sense. The layout of my house, alarm system and dogs that bark at anything near the hosue gives me time to rack the slide, if the closest gun is not ready. And I can determine that with accuracy by feel.
    Glock has these features and good ones at that.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Glock has these features and good ones at that.
    They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?

  5. #105
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40inAVL View Post
    They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?

    I agree with you, what safety features do the Springfield Armory XD have, was considering picking up one of those bad boys.

  6. #106
    SteamboatWillie is offline Junior Member
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    Folks should carry in whatever way makes them comfortable. I prefer to carry with one in the chamber for the following reasons:

    The rule of "threes"
    Quite a few years ago I attended a seminar regarding concealed carry and the "rule of threes" was discussed. The findings of self defense encounters indicated most happened in three seconds or less, with three rounds or less being fired, and at distances of less than three yards. And, it was usually dark.

    I'll mention more in a second, but if I'm confronted I don't want to have to remember whether I have a round chambered or not. I always carry with one in the chamber and I always carry a gun with no external safety to disengage. I always carry in the same location on my body. I don't switch from ankle to shoulder to strong-side etc. It's always strong-side OWB with a cover garment. That's how I ALWAYS practice. In the heat of the moment I want to instinctively know where the gun is, how to get to it quickly and be confident that if I need to pull the trigger it will go bang.

    A real life encounter
    A few years ago I spoke directly to a young man who had to use his gun for self defense. Long story short, he's at a gas station, confronted by two thugs who try to pull him out of his car as he is trying to leave. They are dragging him out of the driver's seat and he is holding onto the steering wheel with his left hand to stay in the car. Fortunately he has a .45 Glock in the center console - with one in the pipe. After going through the agonizing decision of "is this the time I can legally defend myself?" he decides it's now or never, gets the console open, grabs his gun and fires two rounds into the attacker's midsection. Cops come, he's interviewed, they view the gas station footage, he's released. I think the video may be on youtube if anyone doubts the story.

    Anyway, do you think he's happy he chose to carry with one in the chamber? Being dragged out by two men, one hand on the steering wheel to stay in the car, and the other to grab the gun and fire. Not much opportunity to rack the slide... I guess that's how real like works sometimes - no time or opportunity to rack the slide, no iso stance, no "front sight, press". Just get the gun and shoot to stop the threat to your life.

    Professional training
    I'm not ex-LEO or ninja or ex-SF. I'm just an old legally armed citizen. So to protect myself properly, I've spent considerable time and money on sound training in basic marksmanship and specifically in concealed carry; drawing from concealed, moving and shooting, use of vehicles as cover, shooting from vehicles, handgun retention, contact shots, shooting attackers who try to grab and restrain me, shoot-house scenarios with simunitions, shoot/no shoot scenarios etc. etc.

    Not one instructor who trained me, nor any of the high-profile schools like Gunsite, Sig Academy, TDI has ever to my knowledge suggested carrying without a round chambered for personal self defense with a handgun. There may be some, but I submit they are in the minority.

    So, again, I respect everyone's decision to carry however they please. For me - one in the pipe, always.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Some good comments in there and I appreciate your honesty.

    I'm just saying that I'm a newbie, really like Beretta PX4 Storm, 9mm full version and its safety interlocks. I might venture into the G19 when I get some more confidence!

    Thanks again guys for the comments!
    Very good thinking LAGuy,You are not a newbie any more, good job. IMO and being a glock owner, they have a safe action that is very effective if the gun is dropped. It's plain as day your chances of letting a round off negligently or accidentally with a glock in condition one is greater then any other handgun. People sometimes confuse Confidence with over Confidence .IMO they make a great law enforcement side arm for an open carry with the proper holster. Remember the question here is carrying a glock in condition one.

  8. #108
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    Yes I carry it loaded in condition 1 at all times

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40inAVL View Post
    They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?
    This is what I highlighted in your post;

    "Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus."

    There is nothing in that sentence you wrote that talks about a grip safety. Now as to the loaded chamber indicator, it works very well for my purposes. It is both a visible and a tactile indicator as does its job well. The cocked indicator is also both visual and tactile. It is the trigger. If the trigger is at the rear of the guard, the striker is at rest. If the trigger is in the middle of the guard, it is in its half cocked condition... which means the gun is ready to be fired.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamboatWillie View Post
    Folks should carry in whatever way makes them comfortable. I prefer to carry with one in the chamber for the following reasons:

    The rule of "threes"
    Quite a few years ago I attended a seminar regarding concealed carry and the "rule of threes" was discussed. The findings of self defense encounters indicated most happened in three seconds or less, with three rounds or less being fired, and at distances of less than three yards. And, it was usually dark.

    I'll mention more in a second, but if I'm confronted I don't want to have to remember whether I have a round chambered or not. I always carry with one in the chamber and I always carry a gun with no external safety to disengage. I always carry in the same location on my body. I don't switch from ankle to shoulder to strong-side etc. It's always strong-side OWB with a cover garment. That's how I ALWAYS practice. In the heat of the moment I want to instinctively know where the gun is, how to get to it quickly and be confident that if I need to pull the trigger it will go bang.

    A real life encounter
    A few years ago I spoke directly to a young man who had to use his gun for self defense. Long story short, he's at a gas station, confronted by two thugs who try to pull him out of his car as he is trying to leave. They are dragging him out of the driver's seat and he is holding onto the steering wheel with his left hand to stay in the car. Fortunately he has a .45 Glock in the center console - with one in the pipe. After going through the agonizing decision of "is this the time I can legally defend myself?" he decides it's now or never, gets the console open, grabs his gun and fires two rounds into the attacker's midsection. Cops come, he's interviewed, they view the gas station footage, he's released. I think the video may be on youtube if anyone doubts the story.

    Anyway, do you think he's happy he chose to carry with one in the chamber? Being dragged out by two men, one hand on the steering wheel to stay in the car, and the other to grab the gun and fire. Not much opportunity to rack the slide... I guess that's how real like works sometimes - no time or opportunity to rack the slide, no iso stance, no "front sight, press". Just get the gun and shoot to stop the threat to your life.

    Professional training
    I'm not ex-LEO or ninja or ex-SF. I'm just an old legally armed citizen. So to protect myself properly, I've spent considerable time and money on sound training in basic marksmanship and specifically in concealed carry; drawing from concealed, moving and shooting, use of vehicles as cover, shooting from vehicles, handgun retention, contact shots, shooting attackers who try to grab and restrain me, shoot-house scenarios with simunitions, shoot/no shoot scenarios etc. etc.

    Not one instructor who trained me, nor any of the high-profile schools like Gunsite, Sig Academy, TDI has ever to my knowledge suggested carrying without a round chambered for personal self defense with a handgun. There may be some, but I submit they are in the minority.

    So, again, I respect everyone's decision to carry however they please. For me - one in the pipe, always.
    Excellent writeup. I concur with your points. I also do not want any external safeties to get in my way, to remember whether or not they're engaged, and in the extreme conditions of a violent attack to have to fiddle with then to get my firearm into the game. All I want to be able to do is "pull and pull" (pull the gun and pull the trigger). That is how I train and that is what has become my muscle and brain memory.

    Along with this and even more important, is to carry a gun which is as close as humanly possible to being 100% reliable. The loudest sound in the world when you are faced with a deadly encounter is CLICK. This means the best quality ammunition you can put in your gun and the most reliable firearm you can put on your person.

  11. #111
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is what I highlighted in your post;

    "Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus."

    There is nothing in that sentence you wrote that talks about a grip safety. Now as to the loaded chamber indicator, it works very well for my purposes. It is both a visible and a tactile indicator as does its job well. The cocked indicator is also both visual and tactile. It is the trigger. If the trigger is at the rear of the guard, the striker is at rest. If the trigger is in the middle of the guard, it is in its half cocked condition... which means the gun is ready to be fired.
    The Glock trigger is not a tactile indicator of cocked status...

    Remember that whole "keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire" thing? Feeling up on the trigger of a Glock to determine its cocked status is a recipe for a neglgent discharge or some hurt feelings.

  12. #112
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    The Glock trigger is not a tactile indicator of cocked status...

    Remember that whole "keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire" thing? Feeling up on the trigger of a Glock to determine its cocked status is a recipe for a neglgent discharge or some hurt feelings.
    I take it your anti-glock? correct?

  13. #113
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    I take it your anti-glock? correct?
    Nope we have 3 or 4. I'm anti breaking the very most basic of firearms safety rules.

    Tactile = touch

    Touching the trigger in an attempt to verify cocked status is flat out stupid and ingrains bad habits.

    Not sure if Southern meant to imply something else, but that's what he stated.

    To be continued

  14. #114
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    Yes I agree...
    Keep your finger off the bang switch..

  15. #115
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    Nope we have 3 or 4. I'm anti breaking the very most basic of firearms safety rules.

    Tactile = touch

    Touching the trigger in an attempt to verify cocked status is flat out stupid and ingrains bad habits.

    Not sure if Southern meant to imply something else, but that's what he stated.

    To be continued

    How do you check?

  16. #116
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    How do you check?
    If the gun has a round in the chamber, its cocked. Cycling the slide (either manually or by firing) is what cocked the mechanism of a Glock, so if you've loaded the gun it cocked in the process.

    If its not loaded, it doesn't really matter but some like to relieve the spring tension.

    You can visually check the cocked status by looking at the position of the trigger, that part of Southern's post is correct. If the trigger is all the way to the rear the sear has been tripped and the striker has been released = no longer cocked.

  17. #117
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    Or you can simply pull the slide back a little to show if a round is chambered. I do it everytime after I put my duty weapon (Glock) in a lock box while dealing with arrestees/prisoners... just to be safe & for my own piece of mind to ensure their is still one in the chamber.

    Works for me.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAPnRACK View Post
    Or you can simply pull the slide back a little to show if a round is chambered. I do it everytime after I put my duty weapon (Glock) in a lock box while dealing with arrestees/prisoners... just to be safe & for my own piece of mind to ensure their is still one in the chamber.

    Works for me.
    Where do you lay down the law? What city? .40 cal glock? what are your thoughts.

  19. #119
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    Disengaging a safety is a very slight physical movement.Pulling your shirt out of the way to get to your handgun is another physical move. Undoing the thumbbreak or retention strap on a holster is another move. Should I not scratch the top of my head because this will create more distance to reach for my side arm. Should I not hold my child's hand while crossing a busy street because it takes one hand to pull my shirt up and reach for my sidearm. What happens if your shoe becomes untied ? I can't look down and tie my shoe,,a bad guy might come a charging

  20. #120
    Unarmedwelshman is offline Junior Member
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    Living here in Wales, UK, I need to follow just a couple of quick steps to access my weapon.

    1. find a stepladder
    2. use stepladder to open the loft hatch
    3. move stepladder out of the way
    4. pull loft ladder down from loft (noisy)
    5. climb ladder into loft and fumble around for the light switch
    6. flick spider off my head
    7. find gun cabinet keys
    8. open 2 x locks in guncabinet
    9. take out AR-15
    10. open different cabinet which by law my ammunition has to be kept in
    11. combine ammunition with aforementioned AR-15
    12. flick spiders big friend off my head
    13. climb out of loft with AR-15
    14. I am now armed

    I challenge any of you guys to draw your CCW faster than I can access mine!

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