Originally Posted by StainlessSteel215

For those who can legally carry, either open or (preferably) concealed......do you carry your Glock with one in the pipe?

Took me a bit of time to work up the comfort and confidence in myself and my gun to carry this way, since Glocks have no external safety, but after only a few weeks its become second nature to me. Anyone have strong thoughts for or against this? I think if you have a secure holster that completely buries the trigger you have nothing to worry about. I wear the DeSantis IWB holster around 4 o clock that provides a nice deep carry but allows me to get a decent purchase on the gun when I draw at the range.

Since Glocks have no external (or second safety) besides the USA trigger safety we do not, and will not own any Glocks for SD, we have Springfield XD's. I consider a second safety like a grip safety an essential. Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus.

But yea, for SD, especially carry, a round in the pipe is the only thing that makes sense. The layout of my house, alarm system and dogs that bark at anything near the hosue gives me time to rack the slide, if the closest gun is not ready. And I can determine that with accuracy by feel.

Originally Posted by XD40inAVL

Since Glocks have no external (or second safety) besides the USA trigger safety we do not, and will not own any Glocks for SD, we have Springfield XD's. I consider a second safety like a grip safety an essential. Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus.

But yea, for SD, especially carry, a round in the pipe is the only thing that makes sense. The layout of my house, alarm system and dogs that bark at anything near the hosue gives me time to rack the slide, if the closest gun is not ready. And I can determine that with accuracy by feel.

Glock has these features and good ones at that.

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

Glock has these features and good ones at that.

They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?

Originally Posted by XD40inAVL

They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?

I agree with you, what safety features do the Springfield Armory XD have, was considering picking up one of those bad boys.

Folks should carry in whatever way makes them comfortable. I prefer to carry with one in the chamber for the following reasons:

The rule of "threes"
Quite a few years ago I attended a seminar regarding concealed carry and the "rule of threes" was discussed. The findings of self defense encounters indicated most happened in three seconds or less, with three rounds or less being fired, and at distances of less than three yards. And, it was usually dark.

I'll mention more in a second, but if I'm confronted I don't want to have to remember whether I have a round chambered or not. I always carry with one in the chamber and I always carry a gun with no external safety to disengage. I always carry in the same location on my body. I don't switch from ankle to shoulder to strong-side etc. It's always strong-side OWB with a cover garment. That's how I ALWAYS practice. In the heat of the moment I want to instinctively know where the gun is, how to get to it quickly and be confident that if I need to pull the trigger it will go bang.

A real life encounter
A few years ago I spoke directly to a young man who had to use his gun for self defense. Long story short, he's at a gas station, confronted by two thugs who try to pull him out of his car as he is trying to leave. They are dragging him out of the driver's seat and he is holding onto the steering wheel with his left hand to stay in the car. Fortunately he has a .45 Glock in the center console - with one in the pipe. After going through the agonizing decision of "is this the time I can legally defend myself?" he decides it's now or never, gets the console open, grabs his gun and fires two rounds into the attacker's midsection. Cops come, he's interviewed, they view the gas station footage, he's released. I think the video may be on youtube if anyone doubts the story.

Anyway, do you think he's happy he chose to carry with one in the chamber? Being dragged out by two men, one hand on the steering wheel to stay in the car, and the other to grab the gun and fire. Not much opportunity to rack the slide... I guess that's how real like works sometimes - no time or opportunity to rack the slide, no iso stance, no "front sight, press". Just get the gun and shoot to stop the threat to your life.

Professional training
I'm not ex-LEO or ninja or ex-SF. I'm just an old legally armed citizen. So to protect myself properly, I've spent considerable time and money on sound training in basic marksmanship and specifically in concealed carry; drawing from concealed, moving and shooting, use of vehicles as cover, shooting from vehicles, handgun retention, contact shots, shooting attackers who try to grab and restrain me, shoot-house scenarios with simunitions, shoot/no shoot scenarios etc. etc.

Not one instructor who trained me, nor any of the high-profile schools like Gunsite, Sig Academy, TDI has ever to my knowledge suggested carrying without a round chambered for personal self defense with a handgun. There may be some, but I submit they are in the minority.

So, again, I respect everyone's decision to carry however they please. For me - one in the pipe, always.

Originally Posted by TheLAGuy

Some good comments in there and I appreciate your honesty.

I'm just saying that I'm a newbie, really like Beretta PX4 Storm, 9mm full version and its safety interlocks. I might venture into the G19 when I get some more confidence!

Thanks again guys for the comments!

Very good thinking LAGuy,You are not a newbie any more, good job. IMO and being a glock owner, they have a safe action that is very effective if the gun is dropped. It's plain as day your chances of letting a round off negligently or accidentally with a glock in condition one is greater then any other handgun. People sometimes confuse Confidence with over Confidence .IMO they make a great law enforcement side arm for an open carry with the proper holster. Remember the question here is carrying a glock in condition one.

Yes I carry it loaded in condition 1 at all times

Originally Posted by XD40inAVL

They do? They do refer to the extractor as a round chambered indicator, but it's subtle, and not a clear indicator. If you hands are cold, I wouldn't trust it as an indicator in the dark. Which models have grip safety, I haven't seen one? Striker cocked indicator?

This is what I highlighted in your post;

"Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus."

There is nothing in that sentence you wrote that talks about a grip safety. Now as to the loaded chamber indicator, it works very well for my purposes. It is both a visible and a tactile indicator as does its job well. The cocked indicator is also both visual and tactile. It is the trigger. If the trigger is at the rear of the guard, the striker is at rest. If the trigger is in the middle of the guard, it is in its half cocked condition... which means the gun is ready to be fired.

Originally Posted by SteamboatWillie

Folks should carry in whatever way makes them comfortable. I prefer to carry with one in the chamber for the following reasons:

The rule of "threes"
Quite a few years ago I attended a seminar regarding concealed carry and the "rule of threes" was discussed. The findings of self defense encounters indicated most happened in three seconds or less, with three rounds or less being fired, and at distances of less than three yards. And, it was usually dark.

I'll mention more in a second, but if I'm confronted I don't want to have to remember whether I have a round chambered or not. I always carry with one in the chamber and I always carry a gun with no external safety to disengage. I always carry in the same location on my body. I don't switch from ankle to shoulder to strong-side etc. It's always strong-side OWB with a cover garment. That's how I ALWAYS practice. In the heat of the moment I want to instinctively know where the gun is, how to get to it quickly and be confident that if I need to pull the trigger it will go bang.

A real life encounter
A few years ago I spoke directly to a young man who had to use his gun for self defense. Long story short, he's at a gas station, confronted by two thugs who try to pull him out of his car as he is trying to leave. They are dragging him out of the driver's seat and he is holding onto the steering wheel with his left hand to stay in the car. Fortunately he has a .45 Glock in the center console - with one in the pipe. After going through the agonizing decision of "is this the time I can legally defend myself?" he decides it's now or never, gets the console open, grabs his gun and fires two rounds into the attacker's midsection. Cops come, he's interviewed, they view the gas station footage, he's released. I think the video may be on youtube if anyone doubts the story.

Anyway, do you think he's happy he chose to carry with one in the chamber? Being dragged out by two men, one hand on the steering wheel to stay in the car, and the other to grab the gun and fire. Not much opportunity to rack the slide... I guess that's how real like works sometimes - no time or opportunity to rack the slide, no iso stance, no "front sight, press". Just get the gun and shoot to stop the threat to your life.

Professional training
I'm not ex-LEO or ninja or ex-SF. I'm just an old legally armed citizen. So to protect myself properly, I've spent considerable time and money on sound training in basic marksmanship and specifically in concealed carry; drawing from concealed, moving and shooting, use of vehicles as cover, shooting from vehicles, handgun retention, contact shots, shooting attackers who try to grab and restrain me, shoot-house scenarios with simunitions, shoot/no shoot scenarios etc. etc.

Not one instructor who trained me, nor any of the high-profile schools like Gunsite, Sig Academy, TDI has ever to my knowledge suggested carrying without a round chambered for personal self defense with a handgun. There may be some, but I submit they are in the minority.

So, again, I respect everyone's decision to carry however they please. For me - one in the pipe, always.

Excellent writeup. I concur with your points. I also do not want any external safeties to get in my way, to remember whether or not they're engaged, and in the extreme conditions of a violent attack to have to fiddle with then to get my firearm into the game. All I want to be able to do is "pull and pull" (pull the gun and pull the trigger). That is how I train and that is what has become my muscle and brain memory.

Along with this and even more important, is to carry a gun which is as close as humanly possible to being 100% reliable. The loudest sound in the world when you are faced with a deadly encounter is CLICK. This means the best quality ammunition you can put in your gun and the most reliable firearm you can put on your person.

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

This is what I highlighted in your post;

"Combined with both tactical and visual ability to check if a round is in the pipe and if the striker is cocked a plus."

There is nothing in that sentence you wrote that talks about a grip safety. Now as to the loaded chamber indicator, it works very well for my purposes. It is both a visible and a tactile indicator as does its job well. The cocked indicator is also both visual and tactile. It is the trigger. If the trigger is at the rear of the guard, the striker is at rest. If the trigger is in the middle of the guard, it is in its half cocked condition... which means the gun is ready to be fired.

The Glock trigger is not a tactile indicator of cocked status...

Remember that whole "keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire" thing? Feeling up on the trigger of a Glock to determine its cocked status is a recipe for a neglgent discharge or some hurt feelings.

Originally Posted by VAMarine

The Glock trigger is not a tactile indicator of cocked status...

Remember that whole "keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire" thing? Feeling up on the trigger of a Glock to determine its cocked status is a recipe for a neglgent discharge or some hurt feelings.

I take it your anti-glock? correct?

Originally Posted by TheLAGuy

I take it your anti-glock? correct?

Nope we have 3 or 4. I'm anti breaking the very most basic of firearms safety rules.

Tactile = touch

Touching the trigger in an attempt to verify cocked status is flat out stupid and ingrains bad habits.

Not sure if Southern meant to imply something else, but that's what he stated.

To be continued

Yes I agree...
Keep your finger off the bang switch..

Originally Posted by VAMarine

Nope we have 3 or 4. I'm anti breaking the very most basic of firearms safety rules.

Tactile = touch

Touching the trigger in an attempt to verify cocked status is flat out stupid and ingrains bad habits.

Not sure if Southern meant to imply something else, but that's what he stated.

To be continued

How do you check?

Originally Posted by TheLAGuy

How do you check?

If the gun has a round in the chamber, its cocked. Cycling the slide (either manually or by firing) is what cocked the mechanism of a Glock, so if you've loaded the gun it cocked in the process.

If its not loaded, it doesn't really matter but some like to relieve the spring tension.

You can visually check the cocked status by looking at the position of the trigger, that part of Southern's post is correct. If the trigger is all the way to the rear the sear has been tripped and the striker has been released = no longer cocked.

Or you can simply pull the slide back a little to show if a round is chambered. I do it everytime after I put my duty weapon (Glock) in a lock box while dealing with arrestees/prisoners... just to be safe & for my own piece of mind to ensure their is still one in the chamber.

Works for me.

Originally Posted by TAPnRACK

Or you can simply pull the slide back a little to show if a round is chambered. I do it everytime after I put my duty weapon (Glock) in a lock box while dealing with arrestees/prisoners... just to be safe & for my own piece of mind to ensure their is still one in the chamber.

Works for me.

Where do you lay down the law? What city? .40 cal glock? what are your thoughts.

Disengaging a safety is a very slight physical movement.Pulling your shirt out of the way to get to your handgun is another physical move. Undoing the thumbbreak or retention strap on a holster is another move. Should I not scratch the top of my head because this will create more distance to reach for my side arm. Should I not hold my child's hand while crossing a busy street because it takes one hand to pull my shirt up and reach for my sidearm. What happens if your shoe becomes untied ? I can't look down and tie my shoe,,a bad guy might come a charging

Living here in Wales, UK, I need to follow just a couple of quick steps to access my weapon.

1. find a stepladder
2. use stepladder to open the loft hatch
3. move stepladder out of the way
4. pull loft ladder down from loft (noisy)
5. climb ladder into loft and fumble around for the light switch
6. flick spider off my head
7. find gun cabinet keys
8. open 2 x locks in guncabinet
9. take out AR-15
10. open different cabinet which by law my ammunition has to be kept in
11. combine ammunition with aforementioned AR-15
12. flick spiders big friend off my head
13. climb out of loft with AR-15
14. I am now armed

I challenge any of you guys to draw your CCW faster than I can access mine!

Originally Posted by Unarmedwelshman

Living here in Wales, UK, I need to follow just a couple of quick steps to access my weapon.

1. find a stepladder
2. use stepladder to open the loft hatch
3. move stepladder out of the way
4. pull loft ladder down from loft (noisy)
5. climb ladder into loft and fumble around for the light switch
6. flick spider off my head
7. find gun cabinet keys
8. open 2 x locks in guncabinet
9. take out AR-15
10. open different cabinet which by law my ammunition has to be kept in
11. combine ammunition with aforementioned AR-15
12. flick spiders big friend off my head
13. climb out of loft with AR-15
14. I am now armed

I challenge any of you guys to draw your CCW faster than I can access mine!

Isnt that super illegal in Wales?

Originally Posted by Unarmedwelshman

Living here in Wales, UK, I need to follow just a couple of quick steps to access my weapon.

1. find a stepladder
2. use stepladder to open the loft hatch
3. move stepladder out of the way
4. pull loft ladder down from loft (noisy)
5. climb ladder into loft and fumble around for the light switch
6. flick spider off my head
7. find gun cabinet keys
8. open 2 x locks in guncabinet
9. take out AR-15
10. open different cabinet which by law my ammunition has to be kept in
11. combine ammunition with aforementioned AR-15
12. flick spiders big friend off my head
13. climb out of loft with AR-15
14. I am now armed

I challenge any of you guys to draw your CCW faster than I can access mine!

Originally Posted by TheLAGuy

Isnt that super illegal in Wales?

Which bit? Flicking spiders off my head? Yes but only if you dont apologise to the spider!

Originally Posted by Unarmedwelshman

Living here in Wales, UK, I need to follow just a couple of quick steps to access my weapon.

1. find a stepladder
2. use stepladder to open the loft hatch
3. move stepladder out of the way
4. pull loft ladder down from loft (noisy)
5. climb ladder into loft and fumble around for the light switch
6. flick spider off my head
7. find gun cabinet keys
8. open 2 x locks in guncabinet
9. take out AR-15
10. open different cabinet which by law my ammunition has to be kept in
11. combine ammunition with aforementioned AR-15
12. flick spiders big friend off my head
13. climb out of loft with AR-15
14. I am now armed

I challenge any of you guys to draw your CCW faster than I can access mine!

Originally Posted by pic

Disengaging a safety is a very slight physical movement.Pulling your shirt out of the way to get to your handgun is another physical move. Undoing the thumbbreak or retention strap on a holster is another move. Should I not scratch the top of my head because this will create more distance to reach for my side arm. Should I not hold my child's hand while crossing a busy street because it takes one hand to pull my shirt up and reach for my sidearm. What happens if your shoe becomes untied ? I can't look down and tie my shoe,,a bad guy might come a charging

pic - Many people are comfortable carrying a gun with an external safety. Certainly the 1911 folks. I don't see anything wrong with them doing it, but it's simply not for me.

My reason for not having an external safety is because if I should forget the "very slight movement" I pull the trigger and the gun doesn't go bang. I'm sure if I started practicing today in a reasonable amount of time I could add it to my draw stroke. But I don't see any reason to change.

And to see the bad side - I found this account on a website of jewelers. The excerpt below is part of a discussion about whether they should carry a gun or simply try to avoid harm by doing exactly as the thief says. Give up the goods and let them be on their way. The entire article is located here

"DFC Estate Jewelers, West Palm Beach, Fla.

Jeweler Jack Schram was working on his taxes in August 1994 when a man came to the door of his store. “I wasn’t paying attention,” he says. “There was a knock on the door. Instinctively I hit the buzzer and then looked up. As soon as I looked up, I knew I made a mistake.” The “customer” was wearing an untucked, baggy shirt, a baseball cap, and sunglasses. “He just didn’t look right,” Schram recalls.

The man pointed to the counter and blurted out, “How much is that watch?” Says Schram, “He almost asked the question before he looked. I said, 'It’s $500.’ I didn’t even care what it was.” The man turned away. “As he turned, he bent down. I don’t know why, but I knew exactly what he was doing,” says Schram. Knowing that the “customer” was going to draw a weapon, the jeweler pulled out his own gun. “I beat him to the draw. There was only one problem: I forgot to take the safety off. I’m not James Bond. This isn’t something I do all the time.”

Startled, the intruder opened fire. “He didn’t have to worry about a safety; he had a revolver, a Saturday-night special,” Schram says. “Unfortunately, five of his bullets hit me; four in the abdomen and one in the arm.” A sixth bullet struck the wall. No doubt thinking Schram was going to shoot him, the man ran to the door but couldn’t get out; the security system required Schram to buzz him out. “He comes back to me; I get down on the floor under my desk. I have my gun in my hand. I don’t know why it’s not working. I’m thinking, 'I’m gonna die. I just got shot. I’m not dreaming. I have 2-year-old twin girls.’ ”

Despite all that happened, the jeweler—who had been the victim of armed robberies twice before the shooting incident—went back to work. But the incident hasn’t changed his mind about guns. He replaced his stolen weapon with a Glock. “It doesn’t have a safety,” he says."

Adrenalin, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion - all things that need to be dealt with in a life and death situation. That's the reason I prefer to carry handguns that have the same manual of arms and no external safety (and my holsters don't have a thumb break). I'm not saying it's the correct answer for everyone, it's just my my personal decision on method of carry.