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  1. #51
    paratrooper is offline Senior Member
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    If I carry a gun on my person, I don't care where I'm at, the gun will be loaded and ready to fire.

    To carry a gun and NOT have it loaded and ready to fire (I hate saying condition 1) is crazy.

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  3. #52
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Can't one go off while, one in the pipe? If you sit wrong?

    Seems pretty nutty but too each their own. Do cops have one in the pipe at all times?

  4. #53
    kerrycork is offline Junior Member
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    If one does not carry with one in the pipe he puts his opponent one up on himself.

  5. #54
    VAMarine's Avatar
    VAMarine is online now Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Can't one go off while, one in the pipe? If you sit wrong?

    Seems pretty nutty but too each their own. Do cops have one in the pipe at all times?

    Regarding the first question, a properly functioning firearm of modern design does not go off unless the trigger is pulled, if the trigger guard is properly covered and proper handling is performed there is nothing to worry about.


    Yes, Cops have one in the chamber at all times while on duty.

  6. #55
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    It's crazy to me to think that a bad guy threatening your life is more probable than of your gun malfunctioning (even if I specified malfunction to just accidental discharge). Seems one is about three to four times more likely than the other. Have any of you had to draw your handgun?

  7. #56
    Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    It's crazy to me to think that a bad guy threatening your life is more probable than of your gun malfunctioning (even if I specified malfunction to just accidental discharge). Seems one is about three to four times more likely than the other. Have any of you had to draw your handgun?
    Must respectfully wholeheartly disagree. Have never even gotten close to drawing my handgun in 15 years of concealed carry but if I had to I would want to be able to pull the trigger imediately without doing something else (like racking the slide).

  8. #57
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    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    ...Have any of you had to draw your handgun?
    Yes, twice. But in neither case did I have to fire it.

    However, I've been carrying a concealed weapon for (probably) longer than you've been alive. Mostly I've carried a single-action 1911—loaded, cocked, and locked of course.
    For the past (approximately) 12 years, I've been carrying a DAO pocket-size .45 ACP, also fully loaded and ready to go.
    Now I carry a Colt's Pocket Hammerless in .380 ACP, also loaded, cocked, and locked.

    I have never—repeat, never—experienced an unintended discharge while I was carrying any pistol.

    (I did cause negligent discharges twice: Once when I was a stupid child and acted stupidly, and once after a match, when I put a round into the ground while unloading my pistol improperly.)

  9. #58
    Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Yes, twice. But in neither case did I have to fire it.

    However, I've been carrying a concealed weapon for (probably) longer than you've been alive. Mostly I've carried a single-action 1911—loaded, cocked, and locked of course.
    For the past (approximately) 12 years, I've been carrying a DAO pocket-size .45 ACP, also fully loaded and ready to go.
    Now I carry a Colt's Pocket Hammerless in .380 ACP, also loaded, cocked, and locked.

    I have never—repeat, never—experienced an unintended discharge while I was carrying any pistol.

    (I did cause negligent discharges twice: Once when I was a stupid child and acted stupidly, and once after a match, when I put a round into the ground while unloading my pistol improperly.)
    Steve, clear your messages. You are full! And I've got one incoming.

  10. #59
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    It's crazy to me to think that a bad guy threatening your life is more probable than of your gun malfunctioning (even if I specified malfunction to just accidental discharge). Seems one is about three to four times more likely than the other. Have any of you had to draw your handgun?
    A pistol or revolver residing in a proper holster, designed to protect the trigger guard and which is not pliable to the point of encountering the trigger, has a very small chance of discharging the weapon inadvertently. Can't say zero percent, but probably less than the chance of getting attacked by a miscreant. Of course you are entitled to carry as you see fit, but do consider these very real scenarios.

    What are you going to do if your support hand and/or arm has been severely compromised (shot, stabbed, badly broken up with a bat or large piece of wood)? It is virtually impossible to train for this. Can you be certain that you will be able to work the slide of your sidearm, acquire your target, and deliver rounds accordingly should you need to do this?

    I would reiterate that the fewest impediments between drawing that gun and using it, the better your chance will be of surviving an extreme encounter. Working a slide to get your gun into full battery is a very serious impediment. In the 17 1/2 years I have been carrying on a regular basis, I have never had any problems whatsoever with unintended discharges. And this also goes for the entire close to 45 years I have used handguns. Proper equipment, proper handling techniques, proper attitude, and a healthy dose of common sense all go a very long way to keep you in one piece and your firearms safe and secure.

    I wish you well, but I strongly suggest that you giver very serious consideration to your stance on this issue if you're going to carry a sidearm for your protection.

  11. #60
    Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    It's crazy to me to think that a bad guy threatening your life is more probable than of your gun malfunctioning (even if I specified malfunction to just accidental discharge). Seems one is about three to four times more likely than the other. Have any of you had to draw your handgun?
    After re-reading your post, it seems you are suggesting people legally carrying guns (police, ccw license holders, hunters, etc.) are three times more dangerous to themselves (and others) than are the thugs (with intent to be dangerous)? Is that what you're saying?

  12. #61
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Its not that hard to put one in the chamber.

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Its not that hard to put one in the chamber.
    If the BG comes around the car at 15 to 25 feet or less, you simply do not have the time to jack the slide. Most of us are far more likely to face such a scenario than to be engaged in a running gunfight at 15 to 25 yards. One in the pipe or stop carrying and start depending on that crucifix Granny gave you at confirmation!

  14. #63
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    Hi from Italy.

    Rule 1: NEVER CARRY A LOADED GUN OUT OF ITS DEDICATED HOLSTER... THAT'S THE ONLY ONE SAFETY SECRET

  15. #64
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Its not that hard to put one in the chamber.
    Under nicer calm having a fun at the range setting, sure. Try and do it when someone is one top of you beating you senseless or after taking any kind of good blow to your support side, ball bat, crowbar etc.

    I have had several students come in carrying empty chamber and after running several drills they soon understand that they will get faster, more accurate fire carrying with one in the chamber. With added stress I have seen more than a few flub getting the gun loaded. Typically, when they do get they gun loaded the first shot is very wide, sometimes completely off target.

    Hoping for the best in what is all ready the worst case scenario (having all ready had to draw in of it self is winning the bad luck lottery) is not realisitic thinking or preperation.

    In a force on force environment, an individual without a round chambered will likely "die" every time.

    Responding to a lethal threat, (not just some loud mouth drunkard) needs to be an immediate action, you are all ready responding to your attacker's initiative and are starting from a disadvantaged position. Reaction can beat action with proper training (luck never hurts either) but handicapping yourself from the get go with adding a very crucial step is not going to do you any favors where the fight continuim is concerned.

    Regarding negligent discharges:
    1: Select a modern, proven design, stay away from "brand new designs" most of Ruger's new entries come to mind given thief high rate or recall for safety issues.
    2: Select a quality holster designed for the gun that can be removed from your person without having to take off your belt, I prefer snap loops.
    3: Load the gun, holseter the gun and leave it the heck alone unless you NEED it to shoot something.
    4: Should the gun need to be removed, take off holstered gun so that the trigger stays covered.
    5: Fight complacency with solid, safe handling and instill good "memory" habits.

    If these things are adhered to, there is very little risk of an ND.

    Most "civilian" NDs off the range occur due to poor gear selection, lack of a holster, people messing with their guns when they shouldn't be ie while in the bathroom or a mixture of all of the above.

    ...to be continued.

  16. #65
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Thanks for the advice, I'm a novice. So I need to practice!

  17. #66
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Carrying the Glock with one in the chamber is no different that carrying a double action revolver with a loaded cylinder. Carry it loaded and ............... be ready.
    I don't quite agree. I carry two Glocks at all times (G23, right hip; G27 left ankle).

    I agree that the method of firing a revolver and a Glock are nearly alike. But my revolvers have a trigger pull of 10 to 15 pounds, and the Glock has a trigger pull of about 5 pounds. So revolvers are, in my opinion, less likely to be accidentally discharged.

    When I started shooting there were autos (with safeties) and revolvers with heavy trigger pulls. There was no caveat back then about keeping your finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot.

    But with the light trigger pulls of striker fired guns that rule came in to being. I think it is a good rule regardless.

    But if you treat Glocks like you treat a typical revolver I think it is going to elevate the risk.

  18. #67
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    is there a reason you carry two guns? one isnt enough?

  19. #68
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    Re: Do you carry your Glock condition 1?

    If it makes you happy, and I'm sure in some situations it would be quicker then a mag change. Plus in a true shtf scenerio it might give him something to hand to someone else (strength in numbers).

  20. #69
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    is there a reason you carry two guns? one isnt enough?
    It is more important when I pocket carry my 340 J frame, but when seated access is better from the ankle, and when standing access is better from the belt. The ankle rig is especially good when seated in the car. Did you ever try drawing your weapon with your seatbelt on? Also I don't carry any extra ammo. The G27 is as easy to carry as a spare magazine.

    If you pocket carry, I think it is negligence not to ankle carry too.

  21. #70
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Where do you live? I can understand if you want to carry CCW and live in the south or something, but I dont think its necessary to have two guns holstered to you, unless your a wanted man by "someone". possibly some mafia type, right?

  22. #71
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    is there a reason you carry two guns? one isnt enough?
    Try drawing your weapon while belted in your car and then get back to me.

  23. #72
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    In California its very difficult to have a CCW. Basically what I'm saying is that I'm not even allowed to have a loaded gun in my car, let alone two that are ready to rock strapped to me. I guess NY rules are a lil different.

  24. #73
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    If condition 1 carry is an issue for someone, I suggest a pistol with a safety; or a revolver. Additionally, I also think it is not an issue to carry without a round in the chamber. There were, and still are organizations that do not allow condition one. I remember the SP's and MP's practicing the draw and charge drills and they were quite skilled. The key to self defense is awareness, more than being a quick draw artist. If a civilian allows himself or herself to get into a situation where an instant draw and shoot means life or death, then their life if likely forfeit anyway. What you really want to do is be able to turn around and leave the area, or get to cover; not get into a gunfight. It seems that a lot of people with no experience in close range firefights have some very romantic ideas of what would happen in a shootout. The condition 1 that I want to be in is my own alertness as to what is happening around me when I am out in public places.

  25. #74
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Where do you live? I can understand if you want to carry CCW and live in the south or something, but I dont think its necessary to have two guns holstered to you, unless your a wanted man by "someone". possibly some mafia type, right?
    Yeah. Well, I guess you've never been to Poughkeepsie.

    Man, that's dangerous country around there. For one thing, it's halfway between New York City, where the Mafia rule, and Albany, where just about everybody is a crook.
    And then there are the cows! Have you ever been charged by a cow that really, really needed milking? It happens in Poughkeepsie all of the time. (Well, it did when I was a kid, anyway.)

    People carry two guns because, as Clint Smith's saying goes, "One is none, and two is one." That is, if you're in a life-and-death situation, and your gun fails, what do you do?
    The quickest, simplest thing to do is to reach for the second gun. You don't have the time to repair the problem.
    (Factual Disclosure: I do not carry two guns. Instead, I keep a well-armed wife handy.)

  26. #75
    CPT.ZERO's Avatar
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    In a defence situation, having a non-chambered gun is sensless.
    1: you DO NOT DECIDE to use the gun, you ARE FORCED TO DO IT QUICKLY (and time is essential);
    2: if the aggressor is near enough to reach the phisical contact, unprobably you will have the opportunity to use both the hands to grab and cook tha gun. Than, your half/reaction induces a bigget attack determination, with all the conseguences you can imagine.

    RULE NR. 1: ALWAYS CARRY A GUN IN ITS PROPER HOLSTER, and there will be no problems from tha chambered round .....

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