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  1. #41
    RugerP95's Avatar
    RugerP95 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Map9690 View Post
    Is there anything else to say? Let me know how you guys feel about glocks.
    I think they are very cheap made...dangerous gun. You settle for less when you buy one. Get a good Ruger or S&W M&P.....nuff said.

  2. #42
    Map9690 is offline Junior Member
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    Nah like I said before I have a ruger lcp and wasn't to impressed.

  3. #43
    SMann is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Glock magazines stick in the gun if they're not completely empty, which I don't like; but if you don't mind pulling magazines out, you made the right choice.
    Glocks come with fragile plastic sights, which rip off if I try to rack the slide on my belt.
    Everybody knows the stock sights are slot fillers until proper ones are installed and if you keep the mags downloaded by one they will not bulge and stick even when loaded.

  4. #44
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Map9690 View Post
    I would also like to say that nothing screams "America " more then a 1911...
    Is that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Map9690 View Post
    Maybe a Winchester 45 level action rifle...
    Actually, it would more likely be a Winchester M.73 in .44-40, or a M.94 in .30-30.

    Quote Originally Posted by Map9690 View Post
    But I find glock to be more intuitive then other guns as well.
    "The original point-and-click interface."
    Like computers, it has its flaws. But it does the job.
    As with computers—some of us like the Apple, and some the Microsoft version—some don't fit well into the Glock gestalt.

  5. #45
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMann View Post
    Everybody knows the stock sights are slot fillers until proper ones are installed and if you keep the mags downloaded by one they will not bulge and stick even when loaded.
    So, let me get this straight:
    The Glock pistol is but the basic, incomplete part of a do-it-yourself kit?
    And their high-capacity magazines are actually one-cartridge-fewer-than-high-capacity magazines?

    I prefer buying factory-completed guns that work properly, right out of the box.

  6. #46
    Map9690 is offline Junior Member
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    Oh don't get me started on Mac and apple. And I haven't had the magazine issue. Even with all 17 it doesn't stick for me. And I didn't mind the stock sights. They worked just fine.

  7. #47
    jdw68 is offline Member
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    My Glock has yet to fail to fire or fail to feed, which makes it my most reliable pistol. My Beretta has only failed me once and has actually shot more rounds than the Glock. My colt 1911 acp can be a bit picky on what rounds it likes to cycle. Anything that looks like a fmj it will cyle fine, anything that has a wide hollow point it struggles to cycle. I like my 1911, but it's not the Holy grail of firearms. For those who love Berettas I like them also, if you love 1911's that's fine too. I certainly understand why some folks love the Glock, they are great pistols. I can shoot my Glock more accurately than I can ever shoot my 1911. It holds more rounds and shoots whatever I put through it. I still have stock sights on my pistol and have never had an issue. Finally, my Glock is a good lookin pistol

  8. #48
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    If the selection criteria is "proven over many years", then holler when the Glock has the same track record as the 1911. Most police departments accept the cheapest bid.

    I'd own a Glock if I didn't have to handle it, or look at it, but that's just my opinion. Looks aren't important? What first drew your attention to the vehicle you're driving? The maintenance requirements? Not likely.

    I'll bet you paid more for your vehicle than your carry gun, and I'll bet you liked the looks of your tens of thousands of dollars worth of vehicle, before you considered reliability or quality

    It's personal preference. There is no right or wrong. Just send me what you want me to have. My local FFL dealer will gladly accept transfers from non-FFL holders with proper identification.
    I've owned 1911s, and in fact the stainless steel Gold Cup was easily my most accurate weapon, and the one I shot best. But I don't believe in toggling back and forth between DAO and SA weapons. It is a recipe for disaster. So once I got my first Glock I locked in on DAO weapons (G23, G27, S & W 640 Pro, S& W 340PD, S & W 63, Ruger SP101).

    As far as ergonomics go, the blocky grip makes no difference to me. Only the trigger reach and grip angle really matter. Even the pinky hanging under the G27 does not affect me noticably. Aesthetics are another matter entirely. I keep my weapons clean and lubricated; I don't polish them or coddle them. I don't pay too much attention to the appearance as long as they are reliable and accurate.

    Both my Glocks (just over a year old each) have been 100% reliable for me. As a pair (I always carry both or swap off the G23 for the S & W 640) they are the most reliable autos I've ever owned (and I've owned many autos).

    If I had decided to go with SA weapons, there are now nice choices that were not available when I bought the first Glock. Sig Sauer's offerings would tempt me, but then I'd have to sell all of my DAO weapons to make that switch (and I love my revolvers).

  9. #49
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    dondavis3 is offline Senior Member
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    Every one has their own opinion.

    That said - I do not care for Glocks

    I've owned 3 Glocks in past years and have sold them all except one.

    To me they are ugly guns.

    They do not fit my hands well.

    I don't care for the grip angle at all.

    Other than that they are great guns ... for other people to own.


  10. #50
    rex
    rex is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packard View Post
    But I don't believe in toggling back and forth between DAO and SA weapons. It is a recipe for disaster. So once I got my first Glock I locked in on DAO weapons (G23, G27, S & W 640 Pro, S& W 340PD, S & W 63, Ruger SP101).
    With all due respect,I think the first statement limits your abilities as a well rounded shooter.On duty and combat competition I've carried revolver,DA/SA and SA (concealed and matches,couldn't carry SA in my Dep't.).I practice enough my hand knows what gun it is and the thumb and index finger know just what to do without reminding myself about it.Even when the Glocks were approved I kept my Beretta,but I wasn't fond of anything about the Glocks as everyone knows.

    While the Glock is touted as a DOA,and technically is,unless you're running the NY connector I consider it nothing but a crappy SA.A revolver and early DOA is DA to me,a long heavy stroke.Long being the key point,I've shot some tricked out revolvers that were far from a heavy pull.I see the partial cocking of the striker spring or the hammer in HK's unique setup really just excess creep and takeup in a SA,you have a bit of loaded takeup with a break on par with a heavy SA pull.

    Just my view on the subject,when I got into handguns I was told to diversify and learn how to shoot all the trigger groups to be well rounded and proficient,you may never know what you'll be stuck with in an emergency so know how to use anything.I'm still a 1911 diehard so my DA skills aren't what they were when I could shoot alot,but I can still shoot them with combat accuracy should the need arise.

  11. #51
    Map9690 is offline Junior Member
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    I agree with your statement. And by your " on duty " comment I assume you are a police officer. If so thank you for your service. But as far as being a civilian and a well rounded shooter in can be challenge. We can't afford to go shooting as much and again I'm assuming your precinct gives you ammo and has its own range. Although deversifying the guns we shoot is a great strategy. We are more then able to be proficient in the weapons we own.

  12. #52
    rex
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    Thank you,but technically I wasn't your normal beat cop.Here in Podunk where I live I was in the Posse,or Auxillary.Basically I had all normal powers of your patrol officer,but it was wise to let one of them do an arrest.The Academy training was about 60hrs shy of full standards,most of that was the legal and takedown sections.I thought about doing the remainder of the class later but the hit in pay wasn't cool.That's compared to my normal job,we didn't get paid unless someone hired us for security,it was all volunteer work to help out the comunity.

    We basically had to provide our own weapon,I carried a Smith 586 and when we did the auto transition they had a Beretta 92 in the gun room,so I got that and a buddy grabbed a 5904,most of the others bought their own because there was some junk and non approved calibers in there.They supplied carry ammo and reloads for qualifying twice a year but that was it,our personal shooting ammo was on us.I was with them for about 8 years and had to resign,my time was getting too scarce to continue as Captain but I got roped into a DUI working on the other coast with a friend-I already told my Commander I was going to resign and was waiting for him to have a replacement set up.Poor timing but it helped a little in the DUI case-that's a long story.

    I understand what you mean about the 'civillian' thing,ammo sure isn't cheap now.Back then,late 80's and 90's,I started reloading because the local range ran combat matches among others,but not IPSC sanctioned.The rules were based on IPSC and alot of IPSC shooters came here,but there was alot of emphasis on tactics.I think this is around the time Bill Wilson started IDPA,but we were doing it before it took off.Reloading really helped,I could make a box of 45s for 3$ then.I shot that most,but also ran a 9 and did revolver and shotgun class.I got to shoot alot,but it was because of reloading,women can be expensive,but throw in a few kids and there's a sucking sound every time you grab your wallet.

    Rambling again,take care man.

  13. #53
    SMann is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    So, let me get this straight:
    The Glock pistol is but the basic, incomplete part of a do-it-yourself kit?
    And their high-capacity magazines are actually one-cartridge-fewer-than-high-capacity magazines?

    I prefer buying factory-completed guns that work properly, right out of the box.
    My Glock and millions of others worked just fine right out of the box. Glock not charging me for expensive sights I won't like and will change anyway is fine with me. Are all your guns 100% stock? And for the downloading issue, here is another reason I posted in another thread.

    It has been my experience that the weapons I've fired that use double stack mags have springs that are fully compressed when fully loaded. When trying to insert a fully loaded mag when the slide or bolt is forward, the top round in the mag must be pushed down by the slide/bolt for the mag to be inserted. If the spring is fully compressed the extra space is made by the staggered rounds being pushed outboard. This made me have to hit the bottom of the mag to get it to lock in. The sides of the mag bulge causing the mag to want to stay in place even if the mag release is pressed. I have even seen m16 mags split at the seem where they are spot welded together due the performing repeated combat reloads with fully loaded mags (inserting fresh mag while round is still in chamber meaning bolt is forward). Because my carry piece has plastic double stack mags and plastic seems to have memory, I download them by 1. There are reasons other than 'spring fatigue' to consider downloading certain mags.

    One Glock, two magazines and 29 rounds are plenty for me to be carrying daily.

  14. #54
    rex
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    I don't totally buy that.Some mags do bind but my HK USP,Beretta 92 and Smith 5900 series don't.All have at least 1/2 a round worth of play for a tactical reload.If you beat on any mag it will get ruined,dropping them on hard surfaces really kills them and watched alot go that way.I've seen very few split seams on mags,the ones I have seen were from dropping on hard ground during reloads.Overloaded pressure has caused spread lips in my experience,or looseniong baseplate joints.

    Glock's mag spreading was intentional from the start,the guns were of the KISS approach for operation.I've seen newbies accidentally drop mags quite a few times,Glock did this so your average non-gunner wouldn't tie up the gun should they hit the release accidentally.The reasoning is sound,but the US bitched about it and Glock came out with drop free magazines.Whether they still do or not I don't know,we're talking 20 some years ago.I understand the KISS approach,because idiots are handed guns in the military and LE all the time.What I think is counterproductive to the KISS approach is putting the safety in the trigger,you have an idiot holding a gun and pulling the trigger overrides the safety?Pure genious there.These guns were designed for 'general masses',but they require highly proficient gun handling abilities to be as safe as they can be,kind of an oxymoron going on with the intent and the design.

  15. #55
    SMann is offline Member
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    My gen 3 G19 has no play with all 15 in the mag. The m16 mags I was issued had no play with all 30 in the mag. I don't remember about the m9's. I'm not sure what you don't buy, but what I posted was what I have experienced first hand. The information surely isn't universal, but it applies with certain equipment.

  16. #56
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    I guess I'm a fence rider when it comes to Glocks. I've owned/tried almost all of the models at one time or another but for reasons not worth repeating never quite warmed to them in total. Having said that I can't dispute their many positive attributes either aside from what has been the Gen4 clusterpuck. In my opinion the real unquestionable star in the Glock line up remains the mid sized G19/G23 model. Even a devout Glock hater (which I am not) has got to admit that it is pretty hard to beat for a balance of capacity, power, weight, size, thickness, bore axis, barrel length, etc. My own prefered favorites the USPc and P2000 HK's fall way short on paper in comparison as they are heavier, thicker, shorter barrels and have less capacity. Damned annoying but no less true. Gaston was clearly using their noggin when they came up with this one and I would contend it still remains unequaled in all those "balance oreinted" catagories. However, what might make the most sense on paper reviewing the stats and specs doesn't translate into mass acceptance or we'd all be toting G19's.

    Regarding the "to top off or not to top off a magazine" issue my 2 cents is that this is a design flaw or perhaps a more PC explanation would be a manufacturers oversight. As Rex stated above there should be enough tolerance built into a properly set up magazine to allow for full loading and the then logical insertion of the full magazine into the mag well. Period. Short loading by one round certainly serves as a work around solution but frankly if I didn't care about capacity I'd be toting a Colt Python. To be fair I don't recall having this problem with the Glocks that I have owned (G21, G20, G19, G22, G23, G17, G27, G26, G36, G30) but I can vividly recall some other brands/models where this issue did stand out. Not really a game changer but annoying. YMMV

  17. #57
    rex
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    I suppose I'm not the greatest at wording things,I believe your experiences,and there is truth to the doublestack mags,but it's not alll inclusive in my eyes.As you said,it applies to certain things.

    I don't totally recall the AR mags because I haven't shot it in years.I have close to 20 of the 30 rounders but they are all older GI contract mag.They are from the good contractors,but they are 80s at the newest.I have 2 clipped together that will work with a full 30 rounds,but most are tight as you said.Right now they are all burried except a Sanchez I keep in it but I don't think they are the same make.I was told to keep the old ones downloaded to 28,and it just stuck,with the exception of the 2 clipped together for some of the off the wall matches we used to have.

    Didn't mean any offense,things sometimes come out differently than I mean.Poor articulation skills I'd say.

  18. #58
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    I don't have a problem with Glocks. They make great CC weapons as they are reliable, accurate, easy to maintain, fun to modify and, very importantly, easy to replace when the cops confiscate it after a good SD shot.

    It's a tool, no more, no less.

  19. #59
    SMann is offline Member
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    I appreciate the civility guys. I don't believe the Glock is the end all-be all for everyone, but it certainly works for me. My G19 isn't perfect, but it's minor issues were easily corrected and the pro's definately outweighed the con's by far. Because I can't at the moment invest in several sidearms, the G19 is the best one handgun to own for my purposes. Hopefully I will be able to add to my collection in the future, but even then the G19 will go nowhere. I trust it and love it.

  20. #60
    rex
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    Tueful,I didn't even know you posted until I saw this was still runing.I agree on the 19 for general balance,it's right there but that grip angle!Just me,but I never dreamed that with that grip angle the frame flex would be so pronounced-drove me nuts.

    My last post was for SMann for any future readers.So,believe it or not man,you have a good gun and if it proved itself spot on you are well taken care of.I can't believe I said that

    Easy has a great point though,if some douche does push you where you shouldn't have to,I'd rather tie up something that cost 1/2 as much as what I normally carry.

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