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  1. #1
    flw
    flw is offline Junior Member
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    Compenstated barrel/slide muzzle flash?

    For those of you that have a compensated barrel/slide, when shooting more than one round in a row, do you have any issues with the semi-vertical muzzle flash interfering or needing to get use to it ?

    Also is the compenstation feature only on the Gen 4 models?

    Thank You, flw

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  3. #2
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flw View Post
    For those of you that have a compensated barrel/slide, when shooting more than one round in a row, do you have any issues with the semi-vertical muzzle flash interfering or needing to get use to it ?

    Also is the compenstation feature only on the Gen 4 models?

    Thank You, flw
    No problems after the first few shots out of a new gun, just like most other new-to-you weapons, as long as you are concentrating on the act of shooting and not other things. A few things to keep in mind about ported/compensated handguns:

    - Cheap range/target ammo is much "flashier" than premium self-defense ammo, as the cheap stuff has no flash retardant added to the gunpowder.

    - Flash is usually only visible under low-light conditions, such as indoors or at night.

    - Ported/compensated autoloading handguns are less "flashy" than magnum revolvers with full-power ammo, or even some non-magnum revolvers with less expensive range/target ammo.

    - The flash is very brief and dispersed; it's not like someone shining a bright light in your eyes, or even as bad as a flash attachment used on a camera for indoor photos.


    So, when shooting outdoors in daylight, no problems at all.

    Shooting indoors or outdoors at night with premium ammo, again, no problem.

    Shooting indoors with cheap ammo, flash will be noticeable but manageable. Honestly, I sometimes notice it in my peripheral vision, but I do not lose sight of the target for any longer than it normally takes for the weapon to cycle and get back on target. Single shots or the whole magazine, it doesn't matter. If you study the G19C photo, below, you'll see that the flash doesn't "bloom" until it's well above the weapon; in the line of the sights, there is very little to see under any conditions.

    Glocks have had ported options ever since their first generation of handguns. I have a ported 1st Gen G17L, I have seen several 2nd Gen ported .40s, and I own a 3rd Gen G17C and G19C. I used to own a .357 G32C, got rid of it due to ammo costs killing my budget. Here is a photo of the 9mm G19C firing, taken on an indoor range, with the flash backed by the black backstop for visibility, using cheap ammo:




    Contrast that flash, with this .357 shooting full magnums OUTDOORS during a pistol match:




    And then there's my .44 Mag Redhawk with very flashy handloads (again, outdoors in full daylight):

    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  4. #3
    flw
    flw is offline Junior Member
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    Thats great information and the pics always help in understanding. Thanks alot.

    I do have a follow on.

    Do you feel the vent/compensation system helps in the real world or just makes a techincial difference in recoil when measured?

    If is does work, does it work so well as to make a light 40 S&W very similar to a heavier 9mm round?

    I like the ammo specs of the S&W 40 but like the recoil of the 9mm. Its the second shot I want to make on target consistantly.

    Thanks again for your help.

  5. #4
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flw View Post
    Thats great information and the pics always help in understanding. Thanks alot.

    I do have a follow on.

    Do you feel the vent/compensation system helps in the real world or just makes a techincial difference in recoil when measured?

    If is does work, does it work so well as to make a light 40 S&W very similar to a heavier 9mm round?

    I like the ammo specs of the S&W 40 but like the recoil of the 9mm. Its the second shot I want to make on target consistantly.

    Thanks again for your help.
    The ported/compensated guns do have a small advantage (as supported by shooting game rules that restrict their use), but the shooter must practice regularly with them to be able to capitalize on that advantage. It really will only make a difference in the circumstance you noted; rapid second and subsequent shots on a single target. Most folks take longer to swing over to the next target then it takes for the weapon to cycle and settle down, so porting doesn't help (much) for single shots on multiple targets.

    As far as making a .40 behave like a 9mm, it will get you closer, but probably not all the way there. Remember, too, that there is a penalty that comes with barrel-ported weapons (vs. comps added on the end of the barrel): slower bullet velocity. It's not much, and it will vary with the gun and load, but you do give up a little bit of bullet speed with a ported barrel weapon. This means if you start with a low-energy .40 load, it will be even less energetic in a ported weapon. The good news: this means it will recoil similarly to a 9mm. The bad news: this means it will hit less power, and perhaps with similar effect to a 9mm load. The bullet diameter doesn't shrink, so folks who place emphasis on that aspect still get to enjoy the bigger bullet, but energy-wise, you do give up a little bit of oomph going to a ported weapon.

    Unless you are already a fast and fairly accurate rapid-fire shooter, the amount of effort needed to take advantage of a ported weapon's faster second-shot capability will probably be higher than the effort needed to improve your current second-shot performance performance with an un-ported weapon. If you are having difficulty getting the second rapid shot on the target or intended impact point (as it seems by your comment, above), then an experienced shooting coach or school might be a better investment, in my opinion. By improving your skills through quality training, you will not only reap any benefits of keeping the current full-power ammunition and larger caliber weapon, but will also develop a higher general skill level and confidence that will transfer to any weapon you own or shoot, instead of needing a "special" weapon/ammo combo to do your best/fastest shooting.
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  6. #5
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    I would have replied to this thread; but, for a change, there's nothing left to say.

    (And on a controversial often poorly understood topic, too!)

  7. #6
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    I owned a few comped guns in the 1990s... For self defense, they are not the best idea... One, if you ever had to fire the gun near your face in a struggle, or close to the body, you could get hit in the face with ejected matter from the comp.

    1 of the comped guns I had was a Springfield PDP Defender 1911. It was typically the loudest gun at the range. It was much louder with the comp. It was NOT a gun I wanted to shoot indoors without hearing protection.

  8. #7
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I owned a few comped guns in the 1990s... For self defense, they are not the best idea... One, if you ever had to fire the gun near your face in a struggle, or close to the body, you could get hit in the face with ejected matter from the comp.

    1 of the comped guns I had was a Springfield PDP Defender 1911. It was typically the loudest gun at the range. It was much louder with the comp. It was NOT a gun I wanted to shoot indoors without hearing protection.
    Are we talking about barrel porting or actual compensation? As for muzzle splash? The same thing would be true of any snub-nosed pistol, correct. Firing close to your body is a learned skill; you have to be taught how to do it properly.

    All handguns, including 22 LR caliber pistols, are loud; besides who wants to shoot any pistol indoors without hearing protection?

  9. #8
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Comped or ported barrels exhibit the same set of hazards (increased noise and potential for flying debris) that the B/C gap on a magnum revolver does, and shooters have learned to live with and successfully use wheelguns without many serious problems. I've caught a lot of crap from revolvers over the years, and even pulled scraps of bullet jacket material out of my face after a match stage (it apparently glanced-off a barricade post after exiting the B/C gap at high speed). It happens; you learn to minimize it and its effects, deal with it if it occurs, and press on. With autoloaders in defensive use, you also have the hazard of ejecting cases -- do you put on your shooting glasses if you hear your door getting kicked-in at 3 AM, or do you run the risk of catching a case in the eyeball if you have to shoot? A trade-off of using an autoloader for defense.

    I've also touched-off a 9mm indoors in a closed room with no ear protection. Attention-getting? YES! Possibly damaged my ears? Almost certainly. Could I still function? Yes, and I did.

    Potential hazards with ports/comps/revolvers? Yes.

    Are any of them show-stoppers? Nope.
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  10. #9
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    I am surprised to see I am the only one stating this, as the majority opinion on most forums is that ported guns do not make good self defense guns. If Mike was still active here, I think I've seen him make the same argument. But, do what you wish

    I would only use a ported or comped gun for target practice.

  11. #10
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I am surprised to see I am the only one stating this, as the majority opinion on most forums is that ported guns do not make good self defense guns. If Mike was still active here, I think I've seen him make the same argument. But, do what you wish

    I would only use a ported or comped gun for target practice.
    Hey, more power to you!

    On the other hand, I've carried muzzle-ported pistols for more than 40 years and through a few, 'close encounters of the other kind'. It's, also, been my general experience that on the internet, majority opinions are frequently wrong.

    One of the most outstanding examples of this is all the ill-informed internet hoopla over ported barrels. Heck, most people actually don't know the difference between a compensated, and a ported barrel; but that doesn't stop them from signing on and singing out!

    Neither is muzzle-porting the same thing as, 'slide-porting'; yet these terms all get jumbled together in most peoples' minds. If I've learned one thing about the internet it is that the net is, simultaneously, the very best AND the very worst information resource to have to rely on.

    Nothing has changed! The same as 50 years ago, you still have to know what you are talking about; and, there is no adequate substitute for personal experience.

    http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9...ocopyofg21.jpg
    http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8199/behlert4.jpg

    (And, I'm really good with them too!)

  12. #11
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    I've got a Glock G32c and I've shot many classes with it, including a portion of a class called "Shooting from retention". Essentially when the pistol clears the holster, is rotated towards the target (at near contact distance) and firing. Didn't burn my face, didn't light myself on fire, didn't even blink from "all that blast". (Please keep in mind there's more to it than with a regular unported/comp'd pistol.)

    There are procedures and techniques that mitigate the compensated/ported barrels "blast". I've shot it indoors, I've shot it at night, I've shot it from a vehicle, I've shot it from retention. It's just like anything else, you have to get proper, professional instruction and then all the so called problems aren't really as big as people may think.

    Shooting indoors without hearing protection is of course dumb, but that has NO BEARING on a true defensive situation. My hearing is the LAST thing I'll be concerned about if someone is breaking into my home. That being said, I do keep my electronic ear pro next to the bed at night, but that's only for if I have the time and opportunity to don them. If someone's in the house and at the point were I can see them... I'll be ventilating the bad guy long before I consider reaching for the ear pro.

    There's also the little referred to phenomenon called Audio exclusion. From what I've read from far more intelligent people than I, your body will protect itself during high stress situations. It's interesting reading, just "google away and read for a day".

  13. #12
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    ...... There's also the little referred to phenomenon called Audio exclusion. From what I've read from far more intelligent people than I, your body will protect itself during high stress situations. It's interesting reading, just "google away and read for a day".
    This has actually happened to me. I have no explanation of, 'How' or, 'Why'. Other times it hasn't worked. Again, I don't know, 'What' turns it on or, 'What' turns it off. It just seems to happen.

    One thing, though, whatever you do don't wear a polyester shirt or jacket while you're using a ported pistol; otherwise, you might end up like this guy -

    http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/6...ninggunman.jpg

  14. #13
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Doctor View Post
    This has actually happened to me. I have no explanation of, 'How' or, 'Why'. Other times it hasn't worked. Again, I don't know, 'What' turns it on or, 'What' turns it off. It just seems to happen.

    One thing, though, whatever you do don't wear a polyester shirt or jacket while you're using a ported pistol; otherwise, you might end up like this guy -

    http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/6...ninggunman.jpg
    Whoa! That does it, I'm selling my ported guns!!!

    I've shot my ported Glocks in high-N-tight retention positions, close enough that my ball cap has bounced for each shot, but still no injuries. With the Glocks, at least, a person can easily drop-in a non-ported barrel if they think it's necessary, and still have the advantages of the ported barrel available when they want/need them, too.
    "Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
    (RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)

  15. #14
    GunCat is offline Junior Member
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    There's also the little referred to phenomenon called Audio exclusion. From what I've read from far more intelligent people than I, your body will protect itself during high stress situations. It's interesting reading, just "google away and read for a day".
    Auditory exclusion basically amounts to not noticing the noise because your brain considers it unimportant, kind of like your peripheral vision which you also lose during a high stress situation... It doesn't protect your body or your hearing at all. Your ears get just as damaged, you just don't feel the pain.

  16. #15
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    You are correct and I should have been more thorough. I just meant that you aren't going to be completely distracted by the sound and that your body will (may) focus on the threat (which will be of far more danger than the sound).

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