Glock 22 Gen 4 concerns (major malfunction)
Let me start by saying I have owned multiple different glocks over the years and fired even more. I have recently been seriously considering buying the Glock 22 Gen 4 for use as a duty weapon. Our current issue duty weapon is just too outdated and I am allowed to carry pretty much whatever I want as long as it meets a few simple requirements which the Glock 22 easily surpasses. Being a LEO, I can get Glocks for a very nice price which is also weighing on my decision to go ahead and add another firearm to my small collection. Here is where the difficulties start.
I have seen, as I am sure many of you have, lots of glowing reports for the new Gen 4 but I have also seen people talking about problems with the new double spring. Most reports I saw of people having trouble were saying the spring was either coming apart or would shift from its position while firing or even while just repeatedly pulling the slide back and releasing it by hand. This is of course a concern because I want to know for a fact my duty weapon will function properly when I need it most. Heck that is part of the reason I want to switch to a Glock because of their reliability.
I decided today to go to my local shop and see if they had one there I so I could try and duplicate the problems that some are claiming to have. In some regards it was my lucky day because they actually had a Glock 22 Gen 4 blue label in the safe that someone ordered then backed out on. So I take it out the box and after insuring there was no magazine in the firearm and no ammunition in the chamber either, I did a couple function tests and dry fires to see how things felt. I then began to breakdown the firearm to inspect how the spring was sitting and look for anything that may concern me. At first glance all looked ok but as I looked closer it appeared the spring was not sitting down far enough into the groove on the barrel. I re-adjusted the spring and reassembled the firearm where I once again did multiple function tests and then back to disassembly. This time, I see the spring is not even sitting down against the barrel where it was before but is not sitting up in another notch that I do not believe it is intended to sit in but I know for sure it was not there when reassembled.
So I disassemble and reassemble the firearm one more time and begin to function test it again to see if I can get it to repeat. About the 3d or 4th time I pull the slide back and release there is a major malfunction. I have no idea what happened but front of the guide rod and barrel were standing at least and inch out in front of the firearm and part of the spring was pressed out as well. It was jammed up so tight it could not be disassembled or even have the slide completely close. Myself and the salesman both worked with it for over half an hour trying to figure out what was wrong and how to fix the problem. At one point, I held pressure back on the slide while he hit the barrel and guide rod with the palm of his hand as hard as he could and that did return everything partially back to place. However, try as we might, even using a rubber mallet, we could not make them return to proper position.
After another 15 min or so of me refusing to leave while the firearm was in that condition, I somehow, and I have no idea how, managed to work it free and everything seemed to fall back into place. As soon as everything returned to place, I immediately disassembled the firearm to inspect for the cause and any damage. There did not seem to be any cause obvious problems that would have caused such a malfunction. We did however notice the head of the guide rod/spring where it sits against the barrel appeared to be bent at about a 25 degree angle. The salesman took the rubber mallet and gently attempted to straighten the end of the spring and had some degree of sucess. Now that could have happened while we were trying to force it back into position or it may have just been the cause of it all. I also noticed the gold packing grease seemed a little heavier, not much but a little, then I am used to seeing so we cleaned it and put a tiny bit of lubricant on the slide. It was while we were applying the lubricant that we noticed a very small bit of metal on the slide that wiped off. I guess it could have been some flashing but it was still a concern. We reassembled the firearm and did a couple function checks and everything seemed ok then.
I guess what I am wondering is if anyone has had one do anything similar. I don't feel like the cause would have been either the grease or the tiny bit of metal on the slide. It appeared to me that the spring was the culprit all along. Now they are trying to sell me that particular gun but I just do not have faith in it and am really losing faith in Gen 4s altogether. I could not bring myself to buy this firearm today and am not sure I could without a replacement spring because lets face it, once something is bent and then bent back into shape it is generally weaker. I really wanted to purchase one this week but now I think I will wait. I am supposed to be visited at work by the regional glock LE rep within the next month for a demo for the department (they most likely will not buy because they are cheap) and he is supposed to bring a test and evaluation gun or 10 to try. I am now leaning towards waiting for that and seeing if there are any problems there and to talk with him about what happened today. However, even if things go well then I am not sure my faith will be fully restored.
An interesting report. To date this is the first I have heard of a G22 having this problem but the G17 and G19 Gen4's are reportedly having the same issues at random. My original concern with these was that new spring assembly looking to solve a problem that didn't exist. I think Glock will get it sorted out but for a company with such a good reliability reputation this is bad. Not like the dual captivated spring assembly idea is revolutionary or new. Lot of competing brands work fine. The mystery is why doesn't Glock's version and why did they not think to test it out before release? Good thing they are still making the Gen3's concurrently. That would of been really bad.
I purchased a Glock 19 4th gen, and noticed something similar. I do not know if this is normal, but it concerned me. I put the recoil spring in the normal concave groove on the barrel assembly, but after rocking the slide back, the spring moved up to between the horizontal groove and the concave groove.
Is the spring supposed to always stay in the concave groove or should it moved slightly to straighten? I fired about 200 rounds out of it with no issues.
I know the spring issues with the 17 and 22, and I'm not sure if this is one and the same.
The main function of the half moon groove is to hold the spring in place during assembly. The frame holds the back of the guide rod from moving back and forth during cycling. During disassembly you will notice the guide rod is rarely, if ever, seated fully in the half moon groove like it was when you assembled it. However, if the gen 4's are having guide rod/spring issues and you have any doubts about your gun, have it checked by a Glock armorer. Good luck.
What is the name of the gun shop and where is it located? Did the sales person place it back in the display for sale? I am in the market for a G22 and sure don't want to buy this one after the re-engineering phase it went through. Jim
Originally Posted by SMann
The half-moon cutout groove is for temporarily holding the spring in place during re-assembly ONLY. The spring does NOT ride in this groove during cycling, and may or may not be found fully seated there during disassembly. This has been true of all Glock designs, moving from the original G17 to the Gen3s, and I assume the latest Gen4 continues it (I have very little experience with the Gen4 guns).
I can't really speak to the strange re-assembly problem (not being there), but if I was asked to guess, I'd say that the slide was re-mounted with the recoil spring NOT seated in the cutout (perhaps it was against the second groove/lug on the barrel), and it got wedged/bent when the slide was cycled.
"Placement is power" -- seen in an article by Stephen A. Camp
(RIP, Mr. Camp; you will be remembered, and missed)
I've had my Gen4 Glock22 since 10-11-2011. I have not had one iota of trouble with mine during disassembly or reassembly. I practice with WWB 165 grain FMJ since I load 165grain Federal HST for Self Defense. Very satisfied with my Gen4 up to this point.
I put up a review of the G17 Gen4 by Walt Rauch on my site last night. Here's his take on the new recoil spring system:
"I also wondered about the why and how of the recoil spring system. I strongly suspect this change resulted from Glock’s ongoing effort to build a G22 in .40 SW that won’t malfunction regardless of the ammunition used, with or without the addition of the now almost ubiquitous lights and lasers hung on the gun’s dust cover. As I see it, the problem is the frame flexes when the gun is fired, and this distortion is a large factor in how the gun operates. Changing ammunition and hanging a weight on the frame certainly can change this dynamic and can result in the worst possible malfunction—episodic and not repeatable on demand.
In short, Glock was forced into playing whack-a-mole. Changing the recoil spring system affects the interaction of slide and frame, so reverting to a version of the dual captive recoil spring used in the subcompact Glocks might just be the definitive cure.
The new system is heavier and for me does decrease felt recoil, even in 9mm. Also, contrary to Internet opinions, the heavier system did not interfere with shooting the low-power 9mm ammunition I had on hand, which included Federal American Eagle and Remington UMC 115-grain bullets, with velocities around 1,050 fps. (I didn’t have any frangible stuff.)
In my non-scientific opinion, I think Glock has really done its homework, although any final determination of success or failure can only come from multiple end users. One final thought: The new unit should double or triple the number of rounds you can fire before spring replacement is even recommended.
I did find one-and-a-half downsides to this change. The most obvious? You need more strength to manipulate the slide than before. (I wouldn’t bet against this being the next excuse for the aforementioned qualification failures.) Late-breaking news: A reliable source told me there’s a strong possibility the G17′s spring weight will be decreased based on reports of the slide failing to fully cycle with one or two brands of ammunition. No further details were available at press time.
The “half” problem? The gun is now slightly more difficult to reassemble, with more care needed to ensure the recoil spring unit is exactly centered against the barrel abutment when re-installing the slide."
Full article is here: Glock 17 Gen4 Review | GunGunsGuns.net
Hickok45 (( My favorite Gun Review Site ))
Originally Posted by Jed Henson
Are the only benefits of the new double spring reduced felt recoil and a longer life expectancy? How does this exactly work and does it actually work? I don't have any experience with a gun like this.
All conjecture my friend. I hate when the manufacturers "test" their guns on the shooting public. I also don't care much for engineering that calls for meticulous reassembly of little slots and such or else you get a malfunction. I got enuff stuff to worry bout.
Originally Posted by rccola712
PS...maybe someone can answer your question(s), just don't call Glock right now.
I'm teetering on buying a Gen 4 19. I just can't make up my mind if I want one or not. I've never been a Glock fan, but I really like the feel of the Gen 4's, and think it might just be time to give Glocks another shot.
I just put up another Gen4 review. This one is on the G22 Gen4, by Nick Jacobellis. He says it functioned flawlessly, even after a torture test involving a mud puddle. And his son, a city cop and certified firearms instructor, says his dept is running G22 Gen4s and has seen zero problems.
Here's the related excerpt:
"I found Glock 22 Gen4 flawlessly reliable, and as accurate as any law enforcement service pistol needs to be as long as the operator holds up their end and uses the right amount of sight alignment and trigger control. I had no problem making head shots, center-mass chest shots or plinking at pieces of debris at an outdoor range in the desert at various close-quarter-battle distances
I also conducted a torture test by completely submerging the test pistol in a muddy, sand filled pond. Even though the Glock 22 Gen4 was soaking wet and filled with particles of muddy sand and desert grit, I was able to fire the contents of not one but two magazines into a nearby mound of dirt without experiencing any problems whatsoever.
My son the police officer is now a certified firearms instructor for his department, and he says their newly issued Glock 22 Gen4s have been incredibly reliable as far as he knows. Members of the department recently qualified, and when I asked my son if he observed or heard of any stoppages or malfunctions with any of the Glock 22 Gen4s he said, “No.”"
The full article is here: Glock 22 Gen4 Review | GunGunsGuns.net
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