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Thread: Limp wristing

  1. #1
    SigDoubleTap is offline Junior Member
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    Limp wristing

    I bought a Glock 19 from my gal pal Sara who had em in bunches, her hubby used to be LE and issued a 21, who got her into shooting, and now they have 6 guns between the two of them, everything from sub compacts to competition guns with fancy fiber optic sights. Last year she lent me several guns in different calibers to let me discover what caliber and gun I would want. I ended up with a Sig 226 that had a remarkable 700 dollar price in a state where 1000 is the norm.
    Anyway, I never forgot the 19, so I bought her older model because I always liked it, though when shooting one handed it always jams on me because of the limp wrist factor. I noticed Glocks are very prone to that, where as some guns I can fire hanging practically limp in my hands. I normally shoot thumbs forward, my arms in a triangle. But one handed shooting is a skill I want to better myself at, strong arm and weak arm, because a full tactical stance is not always going to happen. So, I have run into jamming problems do to limp wristing that I want to stop, and I'm embarrased because I think it may be a strength issue.
    For the record I am female, and I don't have mega muscles, though I do shoot a lot and do regular push-ups and crunches as well as my jogging routine to get more arm and hand strength, as well as for my overall well being.
    Is there a secret besides strength that will give me more control, such as body or wrist position? Should I shoot stiff armed or with a bend? Any help would be great. I love my new (used) Glock, and I want to be able to shoot it just as well as my other handguns, but I'm new to polymer guns and their little quirks.

    Ps. Do you guys have this problem to, and is it common?


    Thank you all
    Jannet

  2. #2
    VAMarine's Avatar
    VAMarine is online now Administrator
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    mega hand strength really comes from the wrists (hello limp wristing), wrist curls as well as the grip master are what you need to be doing to improve hand strength.

    As for the Glock, it's got a chunky grip and if it's too large for your hand it's going to be hard to get a proper hold on it. The 19 is also going to have a heavier recoil spring than a 17 etc. which will hurt cycling where limp wristing issues are present. You can try a reduced power spring from Wolff and see if that makes a difference, however the felt recoil may increase. A grip reduction on the gun might also be in order (or try a Gen 4 when they come out)

    Arm extended and from the hip/chest retention are all positions you should be working on. When I shoot one handed from a "combat stance" I am still squared off to the target with my right arm extended and wrist slightly canted to the left let your hands have naturally at your sides and raise your right arm up and you'll see your wrist is slightly canted. Also work the one handed stance with a bent arm.

  3. #3
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    You don't need exceptional hand and wrist strength, to defeat "limp wristing."
    It's all in how you hold the pistol. (Just ask my 5'1", 100-pounds-fully-clothed-and-dripping-wet wife.)
    Your wrists don't need to be strong, but they do need to be locked.
    Your hands don't need to be strong, but they need to grip the pistol with all of the force you can muster, and that "death grip" must be maintained all the way through each shot, including the follow-through.

    Many inexperienced shooters anticipate the shot, as if it's going to hurt. They relax their grip just as the shot goes off. This is a form of "flinch."
    The truth is that, if you grip the pistol as tightly as you can, and if you maintain that tight grip, and if your wrists stay locked, the shot and its recoil will not hurt you.
    But if you relax your hands or wrists at any point during the shot, its recoil will definitely hurt. And the gun won't work properly.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    mega hand strength really comes from the wrists (hello limp wristing), wrist curls as well as the grip master are what you need to be doing to improve hand strength.
    If I may suggest a different link, I believe VAMarine meant these gripmasters: Prohands : Hand Exercisers : Sports : Handgun : Hand Exercisers : Prohands, Via, Gripmaster, Pro, Hand Exercisers, Flexibility, Dexterity, Strength


    But by all means check out the other link if you want to improve your golf grip as well.

  5. #5
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    To the fine advice you've received from the folks above, let me add this: non-locked-wrist induced stoppages are most often seen with low-power practice or range ammo. This ammo is right on the bottom edge of being powerful enough for proper weapon functioning under ideal conditions, and ANY other problem can push it over the edge into jammamatic territory. Things I've seen cause stoppages with cheap target/range ammo include dirty weapons (not filthy, just lightly fouled), extremely cold weather, locked-wrist problems, or lack of lubrication on the weapon. However, the vast majority of these weapons DID work properly with full-power defensive ammo, or high-quality reloads loaded to full-power specifications. When you have full-power/energetic ammo, the "extra" recoil energy can help overcome these otherwise small problems.

    I think everyone knows you should check your weapon for functioning reliability with the load you intend to use for self-defense. However, this ammo can be very expensive, so shooting a lot of it is simply not an option for many folks. If you look around, though, you can sometimes find middle-priced ammo with hollow-point bullets that is more powerful than the light target/range ammo, but still significantly cheaper than the top-of-the-line defense loads. This can be useful for two reasons: quality practice with full-power ammo instead of light target loads is good for you, and for testing your weapon with hollow point ammo for reliability is good for your confidence in your weapon.

    To use Walmart as an example (as many folks have access to one), in their Winchester/USA ammunition line, they have white-box Personal Protection ammo in most popular autoloading pistol calibers; the boxes look like the round-nose/FMJ target ammo boxes, but the bullets are JHPs (jacketed hollow points). There are also Remington/UMC Value Packs in the tall green boxes (100 rounds in each, two 50-shot trays, stacked); I use a lot of this in 9mm and .40, and also in .38 and .357, when available. I've seen it in .45 ACP, too. Federal hasn't done much in this arena, but some Walmarts have been carrying a batch of contract-overrun ammo in .40 caliber that was originally intended for a government agency; it seems to be pretty good stuff. All of this ammo is more expensive than the target/range ammo, but still cheaper than the top-shelf ammo (in fact, you can probably get 50 rounds of the mid-priced JHPs for what you pay for 20 rounds of the "good" stuff). In 9mm, for instance, the cheap FMJ/target ammo are between $9.50 and $12 per 50. The Winchester Personal Protection loads are about $15-$16 per 50, and the Remington JHPs are around $25 per 100. I've seen these ammo brands/types at other stores and gunshops for more money (sometimes a LOT more), but the price advantage over the top-shelf stuff still holds up well.

    Here's a link to a test of the .40 caliber JHP ammo from Walmart I did recently, to give you an idea of what the boxes look like and how they perform, velocity-wise:
    Velocities of less-expensive defensive loads from Walmart - .40 S&W


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  6. #6
    SigDoubleTap is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks

    I am going to the range today. I will also stop at Sports Authority to get some hand squeezing tools for my grip strength. It's a relief to know its about technique and not raw power. Also that ammo is a contributing factor in some cases, but I usually use 147 grain FMJ that have much more push than 115 grain, since I use 124 +P's and 147's for defense loadings, and I do practice with them on a regular basis. (A couple of mags of premium ammo every other week at the range) for reasons as you all stated. Knowing the ammo feeds well, shoots well, and building my confidence.

    Many inexperienced shooters anticipate the shot, as if it's going to hurt. They relax their grip just as the shot goes off. This is a form of "flinch."
    The truth is that, if you grip the pistol as tightly as you can, and if you maintain that tight grip, and if your wrists stay locked, the shot and its recoil will not hurt you.
    But if you relax your hands or wrists at any point during the shot, its recoil will definitely hurt. And the gun won't work properly.
    My first problem.


    Here's a link to a test of the .40 caliber JHP ammo from Walmart I did recently, to give you an idea of what the boxes look like and how they perform, velocity-wise:
    http://www.handgunforum.net/home-def...rt-40-s-w.html

    Very helpful since I do get a lot of ammo there. My favorite is 124 grain RUAG that has +P fps velocity. It works well in my Sig and my Glock.


    But by all means check out the other link if you want to improve your golf grip as well.
    I do enjoy golf. Precept extra soft balls that give my slow swing a good spin that will stick the green...when I hit it!


    I will practice the issues, (I printed them to bring to the range). My only worry is that I'll go too stiff which will affect my trigger pull and trigger finger action. I'll post back tonight after I shoot off my 300 rounds and give you back the results. Its amazing how well I am using two hands, but when shooting one handed I suck. Hopefully with your wisdom and my determination, I will overcome my faults.

    J

  7. #7
    SigDoubleTap is offline Junior Member
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    No more jams

    I never thought of mastering this skill before, but from now on I will always have an advantage... Yay.


    So I hit the range before I went shopping yesterday. It took me about four to five mags to get into a rhythm. I started with a few jams before concentrating on a firm grip and keeping my wrist stiff when shooting with my arm bent and/or extended, simulating different encounters/situations. At first I started grouping shots to the right side, both right and left (weak hand) handed. I imagined my regular thumbs forward two handed grip, and a simple relaxing of the trigger finger allowed my shots to hit their mark. By the end of the 250 round box I was drawing and shooting with one hand gaining more and more speed in both my presentation and the discharging of the weapon, along with the safe re-insertion into my Kydex retention holster.
    I will make one handed/weak handed shooting a part of my regular routine now for practicality in real life situations, and for future events, because the skill is so integral to serious tactical shooting.
    I found that as long as my wrist is locked I can shoot at any arm extention, from point shooting to fully addressing the target and focusing on front sight alignment. I feel confident I can now shoot my G19 in any position now with confidence, and my ability with my other handgun will only improve with technique and skill (not all muscle).
    I even got a complement from a guy who showed me how to keep whatever hand/arm the gun isn't in tight next to my chest, though I don't know exactly why. I usually have it resting either on my holster or ammo holder when shooting one handed. Any thoughts to this?


    Great advice once again, this forum is superb!
    Thank you V/much


    PS.
    Isn't it amazing and amusing how one handed shooting is a totally different phenomenon from the normal two handed combat position we all see and use?
    Last edited by SigDoubleTap; 06-27-2010 at 09:28 AM. Reason: deleted sentence

  8. #8
    bruce333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigDoubleTap View Post
    I even got a complement from a guy who showed me how to keep whatever hand/arm the gun isn't in tight next to my chest, though I don't know exactly why. I usually have it resting either on my holster or ammo holder when shooting one handed. Any thoughts to this?
    Keeping your off hand curled up tight on your chest tightens the muscles in your upper body and helps steady your gun arm.
    Clenching the fist of the off hand also improves your gun hand grip. Both hands are getting the same message from your brain.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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  9. #9
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce333 View Post
    Keeping your off hand curled up tight on your chest tightens the muscles in your upper body and helps steady your gun arm.
    Clenching the fist of the off hand also improves your gun hand grip. Both hands are getting the same message from your brain.
    This also works when shooting weak-hand-only.
    Another thing that I've found helpful when shooting one-handed is canting the pistol, almost to 45 degrees, and toward the body centerline. For some reason, the loss in pinpoint accuracy is more than made up for in steadiness, firmness, and recoil control.

  10. #10
    SigDoubleTap is offline Junior Member
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    Good tip

    I will work on it. Makes great sense, and not only does it seem logically sound, but mechanically, because that is how I have been taught to think of shooting. As one mechanical system working in continuity, from the feet to the tip of the trigger finger. This approach helps me to visualize and memorize new skills better. Thanks again, I can hardly wait for my next check so I can go out shooting.

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