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  1. #1
    SaltyDog's Avatar
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    Glock - DA or SA

    I replied a discussion in the New to Handguns forum and thought I would bring it here.

    DA/SA or DAO...

    Is the Glock DA or SA?

    I said SA but upon further research found it to be classified as Pre Set.

    Wikipedia says

    Pre-set
    Pre-set hammers and strikers apply only to semi-automatic handguns. Upon firing a cartridge or loading the chamber, the hammer or striker will rest in a partially cocked position. The trigger serves the function of completing the cocking cycle and then releasing the striker or hammer. While technically two actions, it differs from a double-action trigger in that the trigger is not capable of fully cocking the striker or hammer. Glock pistols use a pre-set striker mechanism. Examples of pre-set hammers are the Kel-Tec P-32 and Ruger LCP pistols.

    Now my question - does the trigger physically move the striker to a fully cocked position or is it merely removing the safety features?


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  3. #2
    Pistolero's Avatar
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    Yes, the trigger linkage moves the striker to the fully cocked and release position making it double-action in function. Just because the striker is patially cocked (pre-cocked) by the slide doesn't make it SA and pre-set is a term that doesn't have much use among shooters. The Glock is DA.

  4. #3
    SaltyDog's Avatar
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    The confusion for me was that you can make a Glock full auto with a few modifications therefore I'm thinking SA. Can't do that with a Sig P229.

    Thanks for the clarification - Glock is DA.

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    My thoughts on DA seem to be different. I have a M&P and I don't consider it a DA gun. My limited experience with Glock might be leaving me in the dark on something but I consider a DA gun one that will cock the hammer and release it like a revolver or other semi autos like the Sig Dak series.

  6. #5
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    A Glock is not truly a DA weapon. When you rack the slide and chamber a round the striker is not at rest nor is it fully cocked. THe "Safe Action" Glock uses has the striker more or less partially cocked and the trigger will bring it the rest of the way. A lot of the modern striker fired weapons use this method so thew trigger is not as hard or long as a DAO weapon.

    So really a Glock's Safe Action (trade name) is somewhere between a DAO and a SAO weapon. But it is neither.
    Last edited by DevilsJohnson; 05-09-2009 at 07:16 PM.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson View Post
    A Glock is not truly a DA weapon. When you rack the slide and chamber a round the striker is not at rest nor is it fully cocked. THe "Safe Action" Glock uses has the striker more or less partially cocked and the trigger will bring it the rest of the way. A lot of the modern stroker fired weapons use this method so thew trigger is not as hard or long as a DAO weapon.

    So really a Glock's Safe Action (trade name) is somewhere between a DAO and a SAO weapon. But it is neither.
    Exactly - it is a PS yea that's what I am going to start calling it among shooters maybe it will catch on.

    So we will have SA DA SAO DAO DA/SA and PS.

  8. #7
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    I been calling it GA for a while..It's a Glock Action..
    all these new fang gold thAngs..con sarn it!! <--That's Kentuckaneese I've got fluent in it over the years..

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson View Post
    I been calling it GA for a while..It's a Glock Action..
    all these new fang gold thAngs..con sarn it!! <--That's Kentuckaneese I've got fluent in it over the years..

    I like that GA it is

    Funny thing is I know what you said

  10. #9
    James NM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjclassic View Post
    ... I consider a DA gun one that will cock the hammer and release it like a revolver or other semi autos like the Sig Dak series.
    You are confusing trigger type with the firing system. Whether a gun is striker fired or hammer fired has nothing to do with whether it is DA or SA.

    A hammer fired gun can be SA, DA/SA, or DAO.
    A striker fired gun can be SA, DA/SA, or DAO.

    The DAK is a hammer fired DAO gun.
    The Glock and M&P are striker fired DAO guns.

  11. #10
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    The Glock is a DAO (Double Action Only) semi-automatic pistol as defined by the BATFE. But it wouldn't matter what that agency says anyway because by definition, the Glock is a DAO pistol.

  12. #11
    BigDaveP is offline Junior Member
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    The entire nomenclature "Double Action vs Single Action" comes from revolvers. If you have to pull the hammer back first, It's single action only. If you can pull the hammer back but also you can just pull the trigger harder, it's double action/single action.

    The nomenclature slipped over into autoloaders, because most of them had hammers. I have several that you can pull the hammer back on and thus shoot 'single action/double action'. The fact that the slide cocks the hammer doesn't change the term..... it's still a hammer, and it still can be 'pre cocked' for single action, which is how you shoot every other round but the first one.

    But Glocks don't have hammers, and what goes on inside them is (at present) a mystery to me. much to learn.

  13. #12
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    I can't see how it can be called a DA weapon. You don't fully cock and release the striker with any of the shots fired. Glock always called it Safe Action BATFE probably just didn't want o make a new category for it. Even though many striker fired weapons use similar actions these days.

    I agree with the idea that without a hammer it makes it more of a gray area. I look more at what happens when the trigger is pulled. The striker does come back to be released but it's nowhere near the at rest you would see with a hammer. The only way to really describe it would be it fires from half cock o maybe it's a Single and a half. Or it's a almost double action. With more handguns using this type of setup I would think there would be needed a new category for these half cocked striker fired weapons.I mean..It's not the same as say a hammerless Smith. That has it's internal or bobbed hammer making the full trip from at rest to full cock then bang. Maybe someday...

  14. #13
    SaltyDog's Avatar
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    See how I worked that GA in with the Glock 26 fiasco thread?

    Let's keep it going and start a new action - GA will catch on.

    Hey then we can go GA GA over Glock

  15. #14
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    The "action" of a semi-auto pistol, or a revolver for that matter, always refers to the task(s) performed by the trigger/trigger assembly. In the case of a Glock, the trigger assembly performs two tasks and it does these same two tasks each and every time in the same manner, as long as there are rounds remaining to be fired. It is incapable of performing just one of these tasks by itself to fire a round. What it does is this.

    The trigger has a 1/2" travel from initial contact to release. The first 3/8" performs task #1 and the final 1/8" performs task #2. When you begin to depress the trigger, the cruciform starts moving the firing pin rearward into a position of "full cock", or full tension. Once it has gone back as far as designed, the drawbar portion of the cruciform contacts the connector "ridge". This causes the cruciform to move downward or drop, thereby releasing the firing pin to fire a cartridge. Therein, the trigger assembly completes two functions which makes it a double action trigger. Couple this with the fact that it can only do these two functions when the object is to fire a round, and you attach the word "only" to its label making it a Double Action Only design.

  16. #15
    SaltyDog's Avatar
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    Thanks for that informative post SouthernBoy but I still like GA better.

  17. #16
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDog View Post
    Thanks for that informative post SouthernBoy but I still like GA better.
    The Glock trigger action was, indeed, somewhat unique when introduced. For a better example of a true DAO pistol, consider the Kahr line of handguns. Their action is more in keeping with what many could consider to be the classic DAO trigger. But still, the Glock does perform the same functions and its trigger assembly does really do two things.

    GA (Glock Action), eh? Not a bad moniker to assign to this pistol as an example of similarly designed actions.

    The one I have not examined closely is the Springfield Armory XD series. I should take my XD40 apart and look at it more closely to see if it function in a "GA" fashion.

  18. #17
    James NM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    ...The one I have not examined closely is the Springfield Armory XD series. I should take my XD40 apart and look at it more closely to see if it function in a "GA" fashion.
    The XD is classified as a SAO. Racking the slide pre-cocks the striker fully, and pulling the trigger releases the striker.

  19. #18
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    The XD is classified as a SAO. Racking the slide pre-cocks the striker fully, and pulling the trigger releases the striker.
    Thank you. That explains why the first portion of the travel is so light. I thought I had heard that somewhere but wasn't sure.

  20. #19
    SaltyDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    GA (Glock Action), eh? Not a bad moniker to assign to this pistol as an example of similarly designed actions.
    I think what makes it also unique is that you can take a DAO and make it fully automatic with a few modifications. That is why at first I thought it was a SA - I was corrected on that rather quickly.

    Will GA catch on in the shooting community - probably not but like Mikey - I like it.

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