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  1. #1
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
    Randall Donahoo is offline Junior Member
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    New Glock 20 "Incident"

    I just bought my 20 on Tuesday this week, and took it to the mtns to shoot yesterday. I was afraid recoil was going to be much heavier than it really is. I quickly emptied a 15 round mag (WOW), and was very impressed with handling and accuracy, though I wasn't shooting at a measured distance nor at readable targets.... just cans and other trash slobs had left on a hillside ...maybe about 25 or so yards away.

    Although I'm not a reloader, I do pick up and save my brass. A friend with me picked up the last expended cartridge casing, and he said with surprise, "Look at this!" A tiny strip of brass had peeled away from the casing leaving a gap not quite the full heigth of the casing. Looking in the breech of the 20, sure enough - there was that little strip of brass. I left it there and stopped shooting.

    I'm at work for 3 days, but I'll try to take pictures early next week and post them here to try to elicit opinions. If I knew a good gunsmith, I'd take it to him. Maybe I'll find one next week. I'm wondering if this was defective ammo or if my new Glock has a defect. I think I remember the ammo is Am Eagle (red box), so it's not some questionable reload stuff. I have since read that Glocks don't like lead, and this is a box of high antimony lead ammo, which I had read is potent stuff. But maybe leading of the barrel contributed to this??

    Anyone have any informed theories about what went wrong? I'm reluctant to shoot the gun again, let alone rate the gun well until I know what happened. I really do like everything about this gun... except this mystery.

  2. #2
    viper101 is offline Member
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    I would change ammo. make sure you use full metal jacket ammo.
    Check out double tap ammo they make some really good loads
    http://doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php

  3. #3
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
    Randall Donahoo is offline Junior Member
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    Lead, eh?

    So the lead bullet is the problem, you think? Too bad I hadn't researched this topic before I bought the ammo with the handgun. I hadn't really meant to pick up the box of lead, but I didn't think it was a big deal either way as practice ammo.

  4. #4
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    You are not supposed to shoot lead rounds in a Glock. With the polygon rifling, it builds up in the barrel - increasing pressure over time.

  5. #5
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    no lead

    OK. But "over time" must be like 10 minutes and 14 rounds.

  6. #6
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    Here are the pictures I promised.... if I figure out how to load them.

    I took the gun and the ammo back to the place where I bought both. (Great store! - Gunsport in Boulder, CO) Ross, the manager, was all ready to ship it off to Glock - at his cost - when I mentioned the advice I'd gotten here. He hadn't realized that he has sold me lead bullet ammo along with my Glock 20. He apologized, took the ammo back, and gave me a complete box in exchange that cost 50% more than the box I'd purchased. Then he asked me to really clean the gun, especially the barrel, try one round, see how it did, then go from there.

    We'd also noticed that several of the other spent brass showed bulging a little above the rim, so it looks like the pressure from clogging started very early in the shooting of 15 rounds. Yikes!

    See that little strip of brass at the ramp?

    Last edited by Randall Donahoo; 11-06-2007 at 10:35 PM. Reason: photos didn't post

  7. #7
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    Well, that didn't work for posting photos. I'm going to have to study this a little more, I guess.

    Now! Did that work?

  8. #8
    TOF's Avatar
    TOF
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    What I saw in the pictures of the case looked like cracks. Is that correct.
    Although I have seen that brand ammo I have never used it. Is it new manufacture or factory re-loads? If re-loads I would steer clear of it myself.


  9. #9
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    Not actually a "crack." A narrow strip of brass actually blew out of the casing, leaving that gap that shows. Other casings only buldged, but didn't split.

    The ammo is factory stuff and I've used it often in my two .45s - a Taurus PT145 and a S&W 457, although never in the unjacketed lead version. All rounds have done fine. The problem only occurred this one time when I began shooting my new Glock 20... and this, as you can see, was lead ammo that I chose by accident.

  10. #10
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    Range Today

    I shot the Glock 20 again today. First time since the "incident." Used the new full-jacketed ammo my dealer gave me in exchange for the box of lead rounds I'd bought with the gun. The Glock shot great, although I still see some bulgining in the spent brass. Is this normal for a 10mm?

  11. #11
    neophyte is offline Member
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    concerns

    Randall Donahoo: Sir; your pictures came out well.
    What exactly is that lying on the floor plate in front of the ramp.
    Copper sliver semi coiled.
    Do you still have the case and parts that were left over.
    I hope so. Let me presume that you still have the parts; the coiled piece that lying on the floor plate. It appears to be stripped instead of a fracture piece.
    Your case picture appears expanded. Now how does a strip come out?
    Something about your picture is confusing.
    If you still have the parts I would like to see more pictures.
    Case expansion is normal with unsupported barrels. Glock 22 being the worst.
    Keep an eye on as many cases that you can. Explore each and see if it is happening at the same area. Check too to see is there are any exterior scratches or gouges on the fired cases.

    Follow up when you can: and visit GlockTalk. They have true Glock ?experts? there.
    Thanks and good shooting.
    Last edited by neophyte; 11-09-2007 at 08:25 PM. Reason: misspelled esterior

  12. #12
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    No, Ross of Gunsource in Boulder, CO kept the spent cartridge casings and the unshot ammo of my first box - the lead stuff purchased with the Glock from him. At first he was going to send it and my gun to Glock; then we decided I should just clean it up good and try shooting jacketed ammo - checking each casing as I went. Today, that's what I did. The darn thing kicks the casings out so far, though, that I failed to find two of them.

    In checking just now the casings I did find, though, yes, I find some marks. I find a little ding on the side of each and a scratch consistently in close proximity to the ding. The scratch is not prominent. I'll see if I can capture it in a photo, but it may be impossible to see with a basic little digital camera. We'll find out.

    Oh - I did try to post this thread to the GlockTalk forum. I registered in order to do so, but I find I still do not have posting privilege. I can log in, but I cannot post anything, either a reply or a new thread.

  13. #13
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    These photos aren't very useful. In the first one, I laid out 3 of the 13 spent cartridges. You can see the dings in 2 of them, but you cannot see the scratches at all. The ding is consistently 17mm from the base of the cartridge. The scratch begins at the base of the casing and extends upwards about 13mm. But again, you can't see the scratch in the photo 1.
    http://www.msnusers.com/WheelsAndGun...hoto&PhotoID=4


    In the second photo, you can see the scratch on only one of the 3 prone casings. Can you find it? It looks about the same on every casing.
    http://www.msnusers.com/WheelsAndGun...hoto&PhotoID=5

    In the third photo, you can clearly see the dings on the left 2 of the 3 prone casings, but I don't think the scratches are visible.
    http://www.msnusers.com/WheelsAndGun...hoto&PhotoID=6

    I may try taking better photos tomorrow.

  14. #14
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    As I thought about this topic after going to bed, I thought, "Duh. The scratch is just from the ejector. No big deal." Don't know about the ding, but it isn't much. Probably just something related to how the Glock spits out empties. Not to a potential malfunction... like a KaBoom about to happen. Right?

  15. #15
    neophyte is offline Member
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    normal

    Randal Donahoo:Can't tell for sure; just looks like normal bruising.
    I doubt 'ka boom' is imminent. Keeping tabs is the best. You seem to see the natural ejector markings. GlockTalk will let you in when they update.
    Different brands of ammo will sometimes have different markings; nothing to be alarmed about. Again; keep an eye for awhile. post your findings; with pictures, and comments.

  16. #16
    Charlie's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be too concerned about the scratches and and dings, and as neophyte stated earlier some case expansion is expected with an unsupported barrel. I've had several Glocks and most recently a G20 (great gun, hated to sell it for another project but that's another story), and the cases from ALL of them; 9mm, 40 S&W, .45, 10mm, etc. always came out dinged and buldged. Keep shootin' it as long as it appears safe and watch the cases closely (and by the way, my G20 threw cases into the next county upon ejection!). If all else fails, just send it to me and I'll be more than happy to keep a close watch on it for several years........ Keep us posted.

  17. #17
    Randall Donahoo's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    Thanks for the encouragement, gentlemen. I've been out of state for a few days (without the Glock... only my PT145). I might get out and shoot some tomorrow. If not, it'll be next week, since I work this weekend. -- Tough duty: I work 3 weekends each month. Retirement is sweet.

    I have ordered some Cor-Bon hunting ammo for both the Glock and my Ruger Security-Six 357. Not that I really hunt big game with them. But I plan to carry one or the other when playing in the woods. Might as well be prepared to throw the best I can (with the weapons I have, anyway) at anything that looks at me as lunch or as an unwelcome intruder. I'm hoping the Glock and the Ruger are up to demands of the ammo. Each is claimed to achieve a 1200 fps velocity and deliver 640 foot lbs of energy. Not in the same league as the 44 mag and up, but not too shabby either. I could have gotten a S&W 629 in 44 mag when I traded in my old 66 357, but the Glock just sang to me louder. Guess I'll regret listening to its siren song if I ever run up against a large angry bear out there. Until then, though, I'm happy with my choice.

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