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  1. #1
    truman565 is offline Member
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    is break-in myth?

    Ok so this will either be an easy answer or endlessly debatable but here it goes. What exactly is accomplished with the so called break-in process other than burning through some rounds. Now I am a novice when it comes to handguns but I am in manufacturing and it seems to me that breaking in would just test the gun to see if it was manufactured out of tolerance and if so is totally out or if you can beat it in with a few hundred rounds. The manufacturing technology exists that any gun manufacturer can meet whatever tolerances he sees fit. If the slide to frame fit it too tight then change the tolerance. If the springs are too stiff from the factory then have them leave the factory with different springs. Yes, precision does cost money and you typically get what you pay for but with the technology that exists today I don't find it unreasonable to expect a gun to shoot and shoot well right out of the box. Don't send me a gun that requires me to be a gunsmith. All thoughts on this will be appreciated. If I am poorly informed about something then please correct me. Thanks guys.

    Part of this spawns from the face that my brand new CZ Rami 9mm still jams after 600 rounds, a ramp polish, and a chamber polish. This happens with all mags and all types of ammo. I am convinced that the slide is out of tolerance and from time to time it doesn't fully cycle causing a case to stovepipe right at the top of the ejection port. Either that of the ejector isn't contacting the bullet the same way every time which could still be frame I guess. Most of the time cases kick out hard to the right and eject properly but sometimes a case will be lobbed straight up with less force. I am going shooting today and if I have any more jams I am returning it and getting a Sig,H&K, or Kimber 1911. Sorry CZ. The Rami is pretty accurate, feels great, looks good, and seems to be built well but I think I may have just gotten a bad one. I know this happens from time to time in manufacturing but I need my CCW to be 100% reliable.

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  3. #2
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by truman565 View Post
    Part of this spawns from the face that my brand new CZ Rami 9mm still jams after 600 rounds, a ramp polish, and a chamber polish. This happens with all mags and all types of ammo.
    This happens with ball ammo? I'd send it back to CZ-USA. My wife's CZ75B has an excellent track record of reliability, and has since Day One. I read somewhere that CZ recommends a 300 round break-in, though you are clearly well past that point.

    I am convinced that the slide is out of tolerance and from time to time it doesn't fully cycle causing a case to stovepipe right at the top of the ejection port.
    Incomplete cycling is a sign of limp-wristing (no offense), which is a very common technique error among novices. Have an experienced shooter fire it before sending it back.

    I am going shooting today and if I have any more jams I am returning it and getting a Sig,H&K, or Kimber 1911. Sorry CZ.
    I don't think the CZ problems are a break-in issue at all. I think either the gun has a mechanical issue or you are limp-wristing it.

    Kahrs are well-known for requiring a break-in. Most other modern guns are good to go out of the box: Glock, XD, Beretta, SIG, HK, Ruger, most Smiths.

    If you don't want to deal with malfunctions or gunsmithing, pass on the Kimber. Their track record is VERY uneven the last few years.
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  4. #3
    truman565 is offline Member
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    First, thanks for the input Mike. You seem to know your stuff from your posts I have read and I appreciate the help.

    After my range session today I am fully convinced that there is something wrong with my CZ Rami P 9mm. The only surprising thing today was that it did not jam with +p ammo. Recoil spring too stiff for regular ammo? Perhaps but regardless I still jammed 10 out of 70 rounds and it didn't matter which mag I used or how I held the gun. I have shot 6 different types of ammo, used 3 different mags, and had the chamber and feed ramp polished. Nothing has helped the problem.
    Several people suggested that I was "limp wristing" it which I did not rule out at first b/c I am a novice but I think I can rule that out now. I held the gun loose a crap, almost falling out of my hands, and it went through a mag fine. Then I gripped the crap out of it and it jammed a round or two. Then I gripped the crap out of it again and it was fine. Absolutely no consistency. Then I was loose again and it jammed. I rented 3 guns today to make sure that it wasn't just me messing things up. I put 100 rounds through a SA 1911 Loaded Full Size, a 100 rounds through a full size SA XD in .45, and 100 rounds through a Sig 226 9 mm. I did not have a single issue with any of these guns. These were used and abused range guns! Not only did I not have any trouble with any of these guns but I shot significantly better with them. The 1911 was very nice and felt like a typical 1911 but I actually preferred the SA XD in .45. I found it to be more controllable then the 1911 and I was more accurate with it as well. Shooting the 226 was a first time for me with Sigs and their reputation holds up with me. What a great shooting gun. Monday I will be returning my CZ Rami P and getting an XD or 226 instead. Now I am not saying all CZ's are junk so don't get mad all you CZ owners. Every manufacturer makes mistakes from time to time and I think I was just a rare unlucky customer. I am sure there are plenty of properly functioning CZ's out there. However, after shooting that XD today my money would go to that every time. Its pretty much in the same price range as most CZ's. Hope this helps someone down the road.

    My first question still reamins though. Can anyone tell me specifically what breaking in a gun accomplishes? Make it shoot right is not a good answer. How does it physically change the gun and how do those changes help?

  5. #4
    TOF's Avatar
    TOF
    TOF is offline Senior Member
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    Break in occurs on any mechanical device with moving parts be it necessary for proper function or not. As adjacent parts rub against each other any rough edges or surfaces tend to break or wear off yielding smoother function. If adjacent materials are not truly compatible break down will occur rather than break in.

    Modern machining techniques and machinery can yield very precise parts but "Economical" machining will remove the maximum amount of material in the minimum time. Precision vrs. speed of removal will always result in a compromise yielding "In Tolerance" parts that can stand a bit of fine tuning to reach perfection or be so expensive that you and I can't afford them.


  6. #5
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    TOF is correct on the break-in. Basically it just makes the parts "get comfortable" with each other. It's not unique to guns; on the very rare occasion we get new HMMWVs here, they have a big sticker on the windshield with break-in instructions!

    Anyway, since you've eliminated limp-wristing as a culprit, the gun has fired well over any number of recommended break-in rounds, and doesn't feed ball ammo for God's sake, get in touch with CZ-USA and discuss warranty options. Unfortunately, since you've had the gun 'smithed, the warranty may have been voided, but I'd still contact them and find out. www.cz-usa.com
    Employed by Galco Gunleather - www.galcogunleather.com / Veteran OEF VIII

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  7. #6
    JeffWard's Avatar
    JeffWard is offline Senior Member
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    Advertised Break-In period on a Kahr... 400 rds

    Failures to go to battery in first 250 rds... 5
    Stovepipes in first 250 rds... 3

    Failures of any sort in rounds 251-??? (1000+)... NONE, zero, zilch, w/ 3-4 brands of ammo, ball, and JHP.

    Break-In periods are legit.

  8. #7
    truman565 is offline Member
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    Just wanted to say thanks for all the input guys. Breaking in makes sense to me now.

  9. #8
    tabsr is offline Junior Member
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    HK

    With my HK USPC .45 never considered "break in" and flawless with every round for the past 10 years. The break in requirement changed my decision on Kahr. Added the HK P2000SK to my inventory and happy.

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