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  1. #41
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    Gentlemen, I'm not saying it's ok to shoot wildly. You're missing my point.

    Accuracy, shot placement, follow up shots, etc. can be agreed upon by anyone. Everybody should practice and learn. No disagreeing there. However, if the situation you're in results in only one or two hits on the bad guy, wouldn't you want that to be a .45 instead of a 9mm? It's the same logic as avoiding situations where you might have to defend yourself. Avoid dark alleys. Don't tailgate. Avoid conflict. And so on. But if you do end up in such a situation, wouldn't you want to have your pistol with you? Or will you just forever assert that avoiding dark alleys is sufficient?

    I practice a lot. I'm comfortable with my gun. I know I shoot better than other people I see at the range. Still, I carry a .45.

  2. #42
    mw1311's Avatar
    mw1311 is offline Member
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    no arguement there. I always say use the biggest caliber you can shoot accurately. Me & my wife prefer cal. 40 & 45 ourself. We don't think much of 9mm and smaller even tho they might be sufficient with good shot placement.
    In our household the only place the 9mm has is for training at gunsite or blackwater we plan on going to since 9mm ammo is cheap and shooting 500 rounds + a day with a .40 or .45 gets exhausting.

  3. #43
    madmag's Avatar
    madmag is offline Junior Member
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    I sometimes think this never ending, but often entertaining debate would be less if all involved had done a lot of hunting. When you hunt you learn fast that you have to have at least the minimum power and caliber to do the job, but after that it's all shot placement.

    Uh, I think I said earlier that I was going to wait another decade before I said more about the 9mm VS .45 debate. Never say never.
    Last edited by madmag; 03-01-2007 at 09:48 AM.

  4. #44
    jason0007 is offline Member
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    that's why i am purchasing a .40 caliber pistol for my next gun...
    i have 4 pistols all 9mm...but i think i need a .40 just in case..

  5. #45
    bangbang is offline Member
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    Just have a look at this. That hole was made by a .45ACP, NOT a 9mm.

    Would you want to get hit by that?


  6. #46
    mw1311's Avatar
    mw1311 is offline Member
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    Here in Texas we have the saying "The bigger the better" ...the same is true for bullet size.

  7. #47
    busdriver72 is offline Junior Member
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    ANY caliber is better than no gun at all.

    Just have a look at this. That hole was made by a .45ACP, NOT a 9mm.
    I dunno, man.....looks like a 50cal to me.

  8. #48
    bangbang is offline Member
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    According to that image, it looks like the 357 Sig would be the way to go. The wound channel seems to be the greatest. I find it odd that all bullets penetraded equally (more or less)

    The only real difference between 357 Sig and 9mm is the speed. It is amazing what an extra 150fps will do to the wound channel.

    How similar would a 124gr +P 9mm behave?


    Quote Originally Posted by sje0123 View Post
    Not a true answer to the situation, but this may help a little.


  9. #49
    scooter's Avatar
    scooter is offline Supporting Member - Legally Armed Scooter Trash
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    I was looking at that too , but look "where" the .45 does its greatest damage! AFTER it penetrates its damage swells(near vital organs!!).
    Just convinces me even more to stick to the old .45

  10. #50
    rachilders's Avatar
    rachilders is offline Junior Member
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    Many people seem to consider the .40+ calibers as the minimum caliber one should carry when it comes to self defense. OTOH, I talked with a retired Texas Ranger a few months ago about this same subject. To begin with, he said of the dozens of fatal shootings he investigated over a 25+ year career, well over half involved long guns (rifles and shotguns), not pistols. I guess it supposts the old adage that if you know you're going to a gun fight, bring a rifle/shotgun! Of those that did involve handguns, he remembered that those involving large caliber pistols (calibers beginning with "4") could be counted on one hand. The fact was almost all the pistol shootings were commited with four calibers; .22, .380 .38 SPL or 9mm, with the 9mm and 22 have the lions share. Strangely, two killings involved black powder guns, almost as many as involved "big" caliber pistols?? Still, ALL were fatal, including the BP, and aside from the .22's, almost all the rest are in the same caliber range (.380, .38, 9mm).

    For anyone interested, his personal carry gun is a .357, his duty gun was a .45 ACP and his BUG was (is?) a .38 derringer. It's interesting his "work" gun was a 45 but his personal guns are in the .38/9mm range.

  11. #51
    mw1311's Avatar
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    A lot of LE Agencies are still buying 9mm guns, that doesn't mean I have to. Also, the reason that most fatal shootings he investigated involved small caliber guns is because the thugs can't afford much more. Just go to an police auction where they auction off guns used in crimes...about 90% of these are chambered in something smaller than 9mm. It's also a long known fact that thugs love the '9' because you can spread more bullets.
    but, as always...shot placement is key. If you can hit with a bigger bullet the better are the results most likely.


    btw; the .357 Magnum is a well proven manstopper for a long time.

  12. #52
    Highside is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders View Post
    The fact was almost all the pistol shootings were commited with four calibers; .22, .380 .38 SPL or 9mm, with the 9mm and 22 have the lions share. .........Still, ALL were fatal, including the BP, and aside from the .22's, almost all the rest are in the same caliber range (.380, .38, 9mm).
    I've seen these type of statistics before, an I have no doubt they're true.

    But what conclusions do you draw from these statistics? Remember the main idea when being attacked is not to fatally wound the attacker, but to stop them right now from attacking. I'll bet that in many of these instances the person shot either died on the way to the hospital, maybe at the hospital, or at least a few minutes after the incident. I'm sure some lost the ability or will to fight right away, but how many didn't? If they didin't you're still in danger. I'd still bet on larger calibers to maximize my chances of stopping the attacker right now.

    Heck, you could shoot someone with a .22 in the leg in the middle of the desert and it may prove to be a fatal wound, but is that what we're looking for?

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