I think of extremes. If an M1 shooting 30-06 @ 180g and about 3000ft lbs. muzzle energy will not always stop someone unless hit in a vital area, then why would a 9mm or .45acp at about 400 ft. lbs stop them...unless hit in vital area? It's all about shot placement.

Well, OK if they are at 500 yards or wearing body armor, then I will take an M1. Come to think of it I will always take the M1 but it is hard to carry in a concealed holster.

400 fps??????????????

400 fps??????????????

Not feet per second....foot lbs.

Yup , trying to read too fast again...

Wouldn't it just be easier to say that every caliber has it's place. One just needs to pick there tools that is best going to fit his / her mission. At least that is how I would look at it.

Originally Posted by Lawnman380

Practice-Training-Practice-Training-Practice!!!

+ 1

I carry a .45, but would feel fine with a 9mm or .40

My reasons for carrying a .45 are simple, I like the way it feels and I shoot better with it. Everyone is different, experiment a little and find out for yourself what you shoot better with, then go from there.

All are good defense calibers. It boils down to personal preference. As has been previously mentioned, shot placement and practice is the most important thing. I personally like to shoot the .45 and reload it.

Not a true answer to the situation, but this may help a little.

I only use 9mm because I cannot fire the larger calibers rapidly and keep control of the weapon accurately enough to hit anything. I can double tap and fire 9mms rapidly and keep them on target.

You have to decide which for yourself but I pick the 45 for me.

Yep, add me to this group. Since I obviously can't guarantee perfect shot placement in a stressful situation, I at least want maximum tissue damage where ever I do hit.

Besides, I never cared much for the l'il euro-pellet.

9MM, .40 S&W, .45 I believe all will get the job done in the hands of a competent shooter.

For me I prefer to stick w/ .40 S&W just because I can shoot it accurately, and I like the platforms it's available in.

I own a .357 Mag and a 9MM, but for Duty/CCW/home defense it's .40 S&W for me.

Originally Posted by OrangeSkies

Yep, add me to this group. Since I obviously can't guarantee perfect shot placement in a stressful situation, I at least want maximum tissue damage where ever I do hit.

Besides, I never cared much for the l'il euro-pellet.

Yup. That's what I'm saying. I agree with shot placement and follow up. I also agree with maximum expansion. But these are all great in a lab environment. Put yourself in a difficult situation where you *might* get one out of five shots to hit the bad guy, you want maximum damage.

all this talk makes me wonder where the other 4 out of your 5 shots are going.

Originally Posted by USAFgsm

all this talk makes me wonder where the other 4 out of your 5 shots are going.

they are hitting that kid playing ball 300 yards away...

Gentlemen, I'm not saying it's ok to shoot wildly. You're missing my point.

Accuracy, shot placement, follow up shots, etc. can be agreed upon by anyone. Everybody should practice and learn. No disagreeing there. However, if the situation you're in results in only one or two hits on the bad guy, wouldn't you want that to be a .45 instead of a 9mm? It's the same logic as avoiding situations where you might have to defend yourself. Avoid dark alleys. Don't tailgate. Avoid conflict. And so on. But if you do end up in such a situation, wouldn't you want to have your pistol with you? Or will you just forever assert that avoiding dark alleys is sufficient?

I practice a lot. I'm comfortable with my gun. I know I shoot better than other people I see at the range. Still, I carry a .45.

no arguement there. I always say use the biggest caliber you can shoot accurately. Me & my wife prefer cal. 40 & 45 ourself. We don't think much of 9mm and smaller even tho they might be sufficient with good shot placement.
In our household the only place the 9mm has is for training at gunsite or blackwater we plan on going to since 9mm ammo is cheap and shooting 500 rounds + a day with a .40 or .45 gets exhausting.

I sometimes think this never ending, but often entertaining debate would be less if all involved had done a lot of hunting. When you hunt you learn fast that you have to have at least the minimum power and caliber to do the job, but after that it's all shot placement.

Uh, I think I said earlier that I was going to wait another decade before I said more about the 9mm VS .45 debate. Never say never.

that's why i am purchasing a .40 caliber pistol for my next gun...
i have 4 pistols all 9mm...but i think i need a .40 just in case..

Just have a look at this. That hole was made by a .45ACP, NOT a 9mm.

Would you want to get hit by that?

Here in Texas we have the saying "The bigger the better" ...the same is true for bullet size.

ANY caliber is better than no gun at all.

Just have a look at this. That hole was made by a .45ACP, NOT a 9mm.

I dunno, man.....looks like a 50cal to me.

According to that image, it looks like the 357 Sig would be the way to go. The wound channel seems to be the greatest. I find it odd that all bullets penetraded equally (more or less)

The only real difference between 357 Sig and 9mm is the speed. It is amazing what an extra 150fps will do to the wound channel.

How similar would a 124gr +P 9mm behave?

Originally Posted by sje0123

Not a true answer to the situation, but this may help a little.

I was looking at that too , but look "where" the .45 does its greatest damage! AFTER it penetrates its damage swells(near vital organs!!).
Just convinces me even more to stick to the old .45

Many people seem to consider the .40+ calibers as the minimum caliber one should carry when it comes to self defense. OTOH, I talked with a retired Texas Ranger a few months ago about this same subject. To begin with, he said of the dozens of fatal shootings he investigated over a 25+ year career, well over half involved long guns (rifles and shotguns), not pistols. I guess it supposts the old adage that if you know you're going to a gun fight, bring a rifle/shotgun! Of those that did involve handguns, he remembered that those involving large caliber pistols (calibers beginning with "4") could be counted on one hand. The fact was almost all the pistol shootings were commited with four calibers; .22, .380 .38 SPL or 9mm, with the 9mm and 22 have the lions share. Strangely, two killings involved black powder guns, almost as many as involved "big" caliber pistols?? Still, ALL were fatal, including the BP, and aside from the .22's, almost all the rest are in the same caliber range (.380, .38, 9mm).

For anyone interested, his personal carry gun is a .357, his duty gun was a .45 ACP and his BUG was (is?) a .38 derringer. It's interesting his "work" gun was a 45 but his personal guns are in the .38/9mm range.