Originally Posted by tnoisaw

Ya but I use yellow snow balls.

Use the yellow snowballs and they will run.

I don't know much about snowballs, but I know the 84FS is the double-stacked 13rd variation of the 9mmK Cheetah, whereas the 85FS is the single-stacked 8rd variation. Cheers.

I'm kinda hunting a CS9, myself. Seems like a pretty good-sized 9mm.

I carry the polish p-64 resprung to a sixteen pound double action trigger pull.
the 9x18 round has decent power and the gun is a flawless shooter.

Originally Posted by pap1105

i am looking for advise for .380 as a concealed carry weapon. i want it thin and reliable.

The Feburary issue of Guns and Ammo has a write up on The Beretta Cheetah .380. Hard hitting little gun. If you don't mind the recoil which I didn't but the gun was for the wife and she hated it.

I would go with . . . . wait for it . . . . the PPK.

But joking aside. .380ACP is a adequate defense caliber, especially with modern ammunition. The problem with most people when they purchase a pistol for self protection, it that they do not practice enough to be efficient with it. They buy it, run a box through it, and that's about it. Flesh wounds are not effective and I have seen it many times at the range when that is good enough for people. As long as they hit the paper, their happy. What you do at the range translates to the real world. Go for the gate of the eyes, the sternum, and the pelvis . . . effective targets.

Argue about caliber all you want, it all comes down to shot placement and how much damage is done.

Amen on that. Couldn't agree more J.

Originally Posted by Baldy

Amen on that. Couldn't agree more J.

x3 on that

For a pocket gun, I would go with a Kel-tec. It's the lightest and most unobtrusive of all the guns mentioned in this thread.

I would also not be quick to discount a smith and wesson airweight J-frame in .38spl+p. I tried a lot of deep concealment guns and for pocket carry....the P3At and S&W637 airweight are my choices.

Originally Posted by jenglish

I would go with . . . . wait for it . . . . the PPK.

But joking aside. .380ACP is a adequate defense caliber, especially with modern ammunition. The problem with most people when they purchase a pistol for self protection, it that they do not practice enough to be efficient with it. They buy it, run a box through it, and that's about it. Flesh wounds are not effective and I have seen it many times at the range when that is good enough for people. As long as they hit the paper, their happy. What you do at the range translates to the real world. Go for the gate of the eyes, the sternum, and the pelvis . . . effective targets.

Argue about caliber all you want, it all comes down to shot placement and how much damage is done.

I agree completely. And I think the PPk has a lot going for it. I'd recommend the blued version as opposed to the stainless, simply because of the weight issue. The stainless sits in your pocket like a big chunk of lead.

For me, it's easy to keep the .380 on target, and put the shots where they need to go. Very controllable round. I don't ever feel inadequately armed with one.

Along those same lines, the Sig 232 is a pretty good choice. It's lighter than the PPK, though a bit longer and taller.

Is there a significant difference it the weight of a stainless vs carbon steel handgun? I wouldn't have thought so, they both weigh about 490lbs/cf or so.

Perhaps they put more steel in the stainless version?

No, they should be the same, more or less. Only when U see an alloy gun will it be lighter...

Originally Posted by pap1105

i am looking for advise for .380 as a concealed carry weapon. i want it thin and reliable.

just bought a bersa .380 duo tone . 50 rounds of hardball no problems. thanks for your advise.

Good luck with it.


And throw some pics up if you get a chance.

Originally Posted by pap1105

just bought a bersa .380 duo tone . 50 rounds of hardball no problems. thanks for your advise.

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

No, they should be the same, more or less. Only when U see an alloy gun will it be lighter...

The blued version of the ppk does weigh somewhat less than the stainless version. You REALLY notice the difference between the 232 stainless and the blued version. I suppose the 232 is some sort of alloy frame. But there is a difference.