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Thread: Question for the 1911 "HATERS" out there

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    Junior Member emax123's Avatar
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    Question for the 1911 "HATERS" out there

    123
    Scenario:

    You've woken up in a world where the only handgun produced was the 1911 variant. No revolvers, no striker fired, only Browning's beautiful 100 year-old design. If you HAD to do it, what make and model would it be?

    (Demolition Man movie tribute question, "now every restaurant is Taco Bell".)

    I figured why not save up for the 1911 that even the haters would want.
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    It would be the only 1911 I've ever owned that didn't malfunction. Wilson CQB.

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    Yeah, Wilson here too for the most part.

    Runner ups
    SACS Professional
    Dan Wesson Valor
    Springfield TRP Operator

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    Junior Member emax123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by win231 View Post
    It would be the only 1911 I've ever owned that didn't malfunction. Wilson CQB.
    J.H.C!!!! I just looked that up. Thats $3500 handgun!! Are you really telling me that the only 1911 worth a damb is $3500?
    I might have to add $1200 limit to the question. I take that back. What I will add is "and why". How do you mean "the only one the worked".
    How many rounds on average between each malfunction?

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    Hmmm under $1200??? I shudder at the thought.

    I guess if I had to, the Ruger Night Watchman.

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    Member hillman's Avatar
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    I'm not a 'hater', but did sell the only one I've owned, and don't expect to buy another. If I were to do so it would probably be a Ruger, if only because I would expect them to make right whatever wasn't.

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    I have owned ten different 1911s since the 90s. Even had two ED Brown Special Forces (about $2.2-2.3k) and a $3k Springfield Custom Shop Gun (the custom shop is not the same as a production Springer).

    My favorite 1911 out of all 10 is actually the only one I still own... A stainless govt sized Dan Wesson Valor.




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    Senior Member Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    I'll take a WW2, G.I., any-maker, M1911A1, modified with the addition of a M1911 trigger (i.e., long) and a M1911 mainspring housing (i.e., flat). Seven magazines, total.
    ...And any decent .30-'06 rifle.

    Don't forget the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emax123 View Post
    J.H.C!!!! I just looked that up. Thats $3500 handgun!! Are you really telling me that the only 1911 worth a damb is $3500?
    I might have to add $1200 limit to the question. I take that back. What I will add is "and why". How do you mean "the only one the worked".
    How many rounds on average between each malfunction?
    You may have seen prices on their more expensive models. The CQB retails for $2,900 currently. When I bought mine in 2003 it was $1,900.00. Yes, that's what it costs for a hand fitted, reliable 1911 that is not made with cheap MIM or cast parts.

    When I say "The only one that didn't malfunction," I've owned a Kimber Gold Match & three Colts. They all functioned....about 70% of the time. The Wilson never malfunctioned in 6,600 rounds. Interesting that at the time I bought the Kimber Gold Match, it was almost as pricey as the Wilson.

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    Any old series-70 Colt, or a series-70 Gold Cup. I had one of each of these that ran like clockwork back in the 80s, and before I found out how rare a good accurate and reliable 1911A1 .45 was, I traded them for other shiny toys. Bad move. I've also seen several reliable-out-of-the-box examples of the Ruger 1911A1, and I generally prefer stainless over blue steel nowadays, so that might be another good choice. Whichever pistol it was, I'd also add a double-handfull of Wilson mags and some quality ammo, set it up like Steve described above (flat mainspring housing and a long trigger), perhaps along with a slightly oversize safety and slide release, and I'd be good to go.

    And with that problem solved, I'd set out to re-invent the Glock and get it back in production...
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    I've had a few different 1911s. The S&W Series 'E' guns have improvements over the original 1911A1 that I think are really worth while and not just fluff to drive up the price. This one is my preferred carry. So I have a gun that runs all the time and I spent $1100 or you could spend $3000 on a gun that runs all the time. Somebody explain to me why the extra $1900 makes sense. For that matter, why spend more than $650 for a Ruger?

    E series SC.jpg

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    Senior Member Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike12 View Post
    ...The S&W Series 'E' guns have improvements over the original 1911A1 that I think are really worth while and not just fluff to drive up the price...
    Doesn't the S&W "1911" have an external, pivoting extractor, rather than Colt's original internal, spring steel extractor?
    If my memory is correct, about the S&W, I would have to say that it's not an improvement at all.
    The original internal extractor is, I strongly believe, far superior to the external version.

    The external extractor adds at lest two more parts to the gun: its pivot pin and its spring.
    The external extractor is not field-replaceable, and certainly requires tools to replace and adjust, while the internal version just slips out, and can be either tuned or replaced without tools.
    The external extractor cannot be easily adjusted, requiring tools and a difficult disassembly procedure, while you can bend and reset the internal version simply and without tools.

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    Loving my sig 1911 traditional ss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Doesn't the S&W "1911" have an external, pivoting extractor, rather than Colt's original internal, spring steel extractor?
    If my memory is correct, about the S&W, I would have to say that it's not an improvement at all.
    The original internal extractor is, I strongly believe, far superior to the external version.

    The external extractor adds at lest two more parts to the gun: its pivot pin and its spring.
    The external extractor is not field-replaceable, and certainly requires tools to replace and adjust, while the internal version just slips out, and can be either tuned or replaced without tools.
    The external extractor cannot be easily adjusted, requiring tools and a difficult disassembly procedure, while you can bend and reset the internal version simply and without tools.
    The overly average person doesn't know how to adjust an extractor anyway. So, for a vast majority of people, this is a non issue. Plus, S&W seems to be the first out of anyone who got the external extractor right on the 1911. If I wanted one of their guns, this wouldn't stop me.

    They had a routine of problems concerning the plunger tube coming off all the time when they first started making 1911s. But that issue has been resolved now.

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    What I find curious is the "haters" comment in the subject line. Some people are not interested in the 1911. When I first got into guns in 92-93, all I was interested in were Glocks. I didn't get into 1911s until around 1997. It actually held no interest for me until I kept seeing one on my favorite show at the time - Nash Bridges. It was in 1997 that I bought my first 1911.

    So, some people don't like the design. Although, once they try shooting one, many people fall in love with them.

    But - just because something doesn't interest you doesn't make someone a hater. Now, I admit that I AM a Taurus hater

    And, I don't personally like CZs. I don't hate them, but I have no interest in them. They do zero for me, and I will never buy one. There are several other brands like that for me. But for example... Why must some CZ super fan have to assume I am a "hater"? The same with someone who doesn't care for the 1911 design. It may not interest someone. So what....

    I will never buy a revolver. They hold no interest in me. I grew up as a teen in the 1980s. Just like people older than me like the revolver because they grew up seeing all the westerns on tv and had to have one... I grew up in the age of the semi autos being the thing. I just don't care to own a revolver. Am I now a "hater"? I never talk bad about revolvers, but I won't own one...

    Just an example....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    The overly average person doesn't know how to adjust an extractor anyway. So, for a vast majority of people, this is a non issue. Plus, S&W seems to be the first out of anyone who got the external extractor right on the 1911. If I wanted one of their guns, this wouldn't stop me.

    They had a routine of problems concerning the plunger tube coming off all the time when they first started making 1911s. But that issue has been resolved now.
    I've never understood the need for "adjusting" a spring steel extractor. My Uzi has the exact same type of extractor as a 1911's internal extractor. I've never adjusted it & it has over 24,000 rounds through it....without a single malfunction. It is the original extractor that came with the gun, purchased new in 1980. I've taken it out every few thousand rounds to clean it & clean the extractor channel.

    I think if spring steel is properly heat treated, it would never go out of adjustment in normal use. It barely has to bend during firing.

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    Senior Member Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Match shooters like to be able to adjust the throw of their pistols' extractors.
    Sometimes it's because they want to avoid the possibility of receiving a hot empty down a shirt neck.
    Sometimes it's as a courtesy to the shooter standing next to them.
    There are other reasons too, some having to do with headspace (particularly in the .45 ACP).


    Although you may not believe it, extractors occasionally break. (It has happened to me.)
    The Browning-designed internal extractor of the original 1911 is instantly hand-replaceable, as long as you have, or can scrounge, another extractor.
    Replacing a broken or chipped external extractor is a difficult job, usually requiring a bench vise, at least one punch, and a lot of care.

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    Senior Member goldwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emax123 View Post
    Scenario:

    You've woken up in a world where the only handgun produced was the 1911 variant. No revolvers, no striker fired, only Browning's beautiful 100 year-old design. If you HAD to do it, what make and model would it be?

    (Demolition Man movie tribute question, "now every restaurant is Taco Bell".)
    I figured why not save up for the 1911 that even the haters would want.

    I don't recall any posts from 1911 "Haters" here. I honestly believe that there is an unspoken reverence for the 1911 around here. My one and only was a S.A. G.I. Milspec style, and I loved it.
    I don't know that I will replace it any time soon, but it won't be because of hate.

    GW
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    Junior Member emax123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I have owned ten different 1911s since the 90s. Even had two ED Brown Special Forces (about $2.2-2.3k) and a $3k Springfield Custom Shop Gun (the custom shop is not the same as a production Springer).

    My favorite 1911 out of all 10 is actually the only one I still own... A stainless govt sized Dan Wesson Valor.



    That's a pretty lady.
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    Junior Member emax123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldwing View Post
    I don't recall any posts from 1911 "Haters" here. I honestly believe that there is an unspoken reverence for the 1911 around here. My one and only was a S.A. G.I. Milspec style, and I loved it.
    I don't know that I will replace it any time soon, but it won't be because of hate.

    GW
    I'm glad to read this. I haven't been part of the "gun culture" for very long, but one thing I never can understand are the people who are one or the other. If you like glocks well then you should hate Springfields. If you love 1911s you hate the polymer wonders. AK47 or AR 15. 9mm vs the .45 vs the .40. I guess it gives us something to talk about but honestly, I love it all. Unfortunately I can't afford to have it all so I ask questions like these. So I can make the best decision on what for me is a major purchase. If I spend that much coin on gun and doesn't work!!! Well, I may end up joining the "Negative Nancy Club" (James Yeager, founder and President). I really don't want that to happen.

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