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Thread: The Ongoing Caliber Debate

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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    The Ongoing Caliber Debate

    There has been a lot of discussion and debate on this subject, and it seems to never go away simply b/c there are some who seem to think they need to defend their coveted round, or that perhaps there are conspiracies behind pushing certain rounds. I don't know, maybe there could be some of the latter, but couldn't it also be that those who actually use guns for a living might have a vested interest in determining what round is best for their intended purpose?

    I've read that lack of training is the reason behind why the FBI or other LE agencies push the 9mm, or that there are political aspirations behind said agendas. I suppose there could be some truth to that, but what about the fact that the military uses the 9mm as its primary sidearm? The military does not really spend much time pistol training as compared to rifle training. But the special operators do spend ample time training with the pistol, and most of them choose to use a 9mm. Could it be that the truth is that there really is not enough of a difference in terminal ballistics btwn the 9mm, .40 and .45 to make that much of a difference? Could it be that it is actually smarter to use the 9mm b/c it is less expensive to produce/purchase, it is just as effective in the hands of a trained operator, and it gives you more ammunition to fight with?

    Personally, I don't use the 9mm b/c it is the best bullet out there. I use it b/c it makes the most sense to me. I have trained with all the major rounds from .380 to .45, and although I am very accurate with all of them (I can qualify with all of them) the simple truth is that for me, I can get better results with a 9mm. Couple that with the fact that the terminal ballistics really do not vary all that much, the bullet is more plentiful, less expensive, gives me more rounds to use and just as effective, why wouldn't I choose it?

    Now as I've said, it does not matter to me what anyone uses. They are all good rounds for defense. I do not advocate for the 9mm or against the .40. Use what you think is best for you. What I do is post things that I think are relevant and that others might see as useful. It is never intended to start an argument or to prove someone else wrong. That just isn't my agenda. I will discuss subjects and make a case for what I believe is true, but at the end of the day, it really does not matter if someone doesn't believe that LE agencies are starting to move away from the .40 or if they think the 9mm is crap. It's all subjective and personal preference with regard to what you use as ammunition, and if you dont' want to believe the truth, well then that's up to you. When it is all said and done, I think we all would agree it is better to carry than not to carry, and it is not only our right, but duty to do so.

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    hillman's Avatar
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    "and if you dont' want to believe the truth,"

    Hah. I hope you aren't intending to be impartial there. Anyway, it should be TRUTH, not truth when you are on the stump. You are probably right not to call God as your witness because, I think, he uses a .600 Nitro Express revolver.
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    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Bullet placement (i.e., accuracy) trumps ballistics, every time.
    Above about .32 ACP, bullet diameter really doesn't matter...if your shots are dead-on accurate and delivered quickly.
    Sometimes velocity matters, but not so much at very close range. Sometimes bullet mass matters, but not so much at very close range.
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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillman View Post
    "and if you dont' want to believe the truth,"

    Hah. I hope you aren't intending to be impartial there. Anyway, it should be TRUTH, not truth when you are on the stump. You are probably right not to call God as your witness because, I think, he uses a .600 Nitro Express revolver.
    I would say that my position is that in most cases, it does not matter what you use wrt bullet choice as long as you choose a quality round. It's better to have a .22 than nothing, but above all, placement is paramount. As I said, I don't care what anyone chooses, and I wouldn't turn any of it down, but all things being equal, and if I have a choice, most of the time I will choose a 9mm.

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    paratrooper is online now Senior Member
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    The only thing worse than an oil debate, is a firearm caliber debate.

    BTW.....Mobil 1 rules.
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    The debate is over. I just talked to God and, as you might expect, he does not use or need any caliber. He did, however, bless and sanctify the caliber I am using. He also put his seal of approval on Mobil 1, which I use in my truck, car, motorcycle, and lawnmower. I hope this final word is beneficial to everyone.

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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    So let it be written. So let it be done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboHonda View Post
    The debate is over. I just talked to God and, as you might expect, he does not use or need any caliber. He did, however, bless and sanctify the caliber I am using. He also put his seal of approval on Mobil 1, which I use in my truck, car, motorcycle, and lawnmower. I hope this final word is beneficial to everyone.
    You ARE using 9mm, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
    You ARE using 9mm, right?
    Can't say. That's between me and God. 'sides, I don't want to start a run of panic buying.
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    rustygun is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    The caliber debate is a good one. I have learned alot in the process. I think it is safe to say they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Everyone should way the options and go with what they are confident with. As long as its a Glock what difference does it make what caliber it is.
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    Steve M1911A1 Yes Sir well said

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    almanor is offline Junior Member
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    I have enjoyed the discussion here on caliber, That said I prefer my 45 acp, but mostly because that is what I have and what I shoot most. I have shot several other guns of friends, both 9mm and 40 . I find I am more accurate with the 45 than either of the other sizes, but then again that is what I have the most practice with. I did find that both the 9mm and 40 had more felt recoil in my hand, probably because they are much lighter. One 9mm a friend had was a real saturday night special, he got it just for its small size and it was cheap. Neither of us could reliably hit a torso sized target beyond 15 feet. I could throw it more accurately VBG. It also slapped your hand real hard with each shot. I told him then I would stick to my gun he was welcome
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    tony pasley's Avatar
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    God did send us the answer through his Saint John M. Browning. The 1911 in 45 acp.
    The military went to the 9 mm because of N.A.T.O. and to have uniformity in ammo but that has already fallen apart.
    The best round is the one you can hit the target with because a hit with anything is better that 1,000 misses with any caliber.
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    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony pasley View Post
    God did send us the answer through his Saint John M. Browning. The 1911 in 45 acp...


    John Moses Browning, our Latter-Day Saint who was in Utah, hallowed be his name...
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    Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
    Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right?
    Of course not. I use several calibers for various applications. I use 9mm and a box of newspapers for living room practice.
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    rex
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
    Surely, I'm not the only one with 9mm AND 45, right?
    Nope, I still have 1 9mm left, a 22 and 5 or 6 45s- why did I part with the others?

    I've heard the boys in the sandbox don't think highly of the 9 because they have to use too many rounds to drop someone, but I haven't talked to any back personally. I put the military in a different category than LE or SD use though because they are mandated to use FMJ and it's for a secondary arm. Some of the old timers around during the switch said the recoil and split times were a little better but the 45 seemed to hit them harder.

    I have a little different view in the SD category. In the 9 vs. 40 vs. 45 debate you can find data throughout the years that says the 3 are pretty equal in performance and others that say no, I don't get hung up on it. I've carried the 357, 9 and 45 but I've always been a 45 fan and have more time and rounds through one than anything else, so that's what I still carry.

    For a civilian carry I look at it this way, be it a 380 or 45 in FMJ or the new wonder HP, it's going to hurt like hell and I sure don't want to take another. Your average criminal will agree. Now, if you find yourself in harm's way due to job or locale, I would consider caliber and bullet design a little more critically. Personally, I don't feel undergunned with a heavy well designed HP in anything over a 380 and if I need more than that I'm grabbing a rifle, pistols are a sidearm for a reason in the military.

  18. #18
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboHonda View Post
    ...I use 9mm and a box of newspapers for living room practice.

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    Yes I must confess I do own 3- 9mm pistols all 3 are variations of the P 08 luger.
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    Heck, I don't even badmouth the .380 any more (much). Too many people who didn't know how much it sucks have saved their own lives (and others) with one.

    Bottom line, I guess, is that a person bent on survival will find some tool that will get the job done. I'll still go with the biggest gun I can conceal, personally, but if I don't have one, I'll use whatever I can get my hands on. A cool head and determination make up for a lot of deficiencies.
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