How about -p
Just wondering. You always hear of 9mm shooters that carry +p or +p+ rounds and was wondering if anyone carrys +p .45
How about -p
Black Hills 230 gr JHP's +P's for the last five rounds of a 10 rg mag in my Taurus PT-145, thinking about doing the last 3 in the 1911. Looking lighter and faster I tried Remington Golden Sabre 185 gr. JHP's +P's but the flash was just BLINDING with the lights on, so I can only imagine what they'd be like in the dark. :smt103 When I can get a hold of some Hornady 200gr. TAP's I'm going to try those.
I see no reason for a +P load for a .45. They will knock down most any human even if hit in the hand. Why beat your gun to peices for another grain of powder.
The problem with increasing power is obviously that it increases recoil. Split times (your time between shots) are critical in self defense, whether you have to fire multiple shots on a single attacker or if you face multiple opponents. As you increase power, you reach a point of diminishing returns, where the extra power is cancelled out by the slowness of your recovery from recoil.
Best idea is to get a shot timer so you can see your split times. This will help you objectively decide if some extra power is worthwhile, or if it is hindering your splits too much. An experienced shooter can usually hammer away with decent split times even with a powerful pistol, but even that shooter will always be faster with a gun that kicks less. If you can't make A-zone hits at 5 yards with splits under about .25 seconds, your gun probably kicks too hard for you.
Nothing you can fire from a handgun will reliably stop an attacker with a peripheral hit. Tales of .45 knocking determined men down with hits in the little finger are just sea stories and myths. People have been hit with rifle rounds and continued fighting, never mind puny handgun bullets.
Edit: Oh, and what caliber Glock do you shoot faster in then HK? I think that the model 22 has way more recoil then it should. Everything that is in that gun is meant for 9mm, not .40. When shooting side by side the 22 seems to flip more then the HK with me.
Last edited by -gunut-; 09-13-2006 at 09:49 PM.
I've found standard velocity rounds work just fine.
Some advice I was given from my local gun shop owner. You should always think what could happen if you end up in court. He recommends carrying the same ammo as local police or ammo that has self defense stated on the packaging. The problem with +p, +p+, or hand loads is that the lawyer will make it seem like you used some super killer ammo. This is the black talon thing all over again.
Just some free advice.
I use PACT brand, but there are other good brands. You can usually get a decent timer from Midway (or similar company) for $100-$120. It's worth every penny if you are a serious pistol shooter.
I buy my 45ACP carry ammo from Streichers and they are a LEO supply store and I buy the Federal 230gr HST +P. I think any 45ACP in decent shape can shoot the +P with no problems whatsoever...
I thought that the original military loads for the M1911 were +P to begin with.
Could someone please provide me with a court case in which the ammunition used played a part? And what law school did Massad Ayoob graduate from?
I carry +P TAP 230 grn rounds in a Para 6.45. Just to get the velocity up in the shorter barrel. Believe it or not they acually seemed to recoil less than the 200 grn +P but the accuracy was the winner, 230 grn grouped tighter.
Ayoob = boob