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Thread: 45 1911s?

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    Smitty79's Avatar
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    45 1911s?

    Please don't think I am starting a flame war. I really want an answer to this. Other than people who live in PDRC (People Democratic Republic of California) or New Yorkistan, why would someone carry a single stack 45 ACP 1911 instead of an equivalent sized double stack 40 S&W or 9mm? With expanding bullets, the 40's stopping power is about the same as 45 ACP and you get 50% more. Even if you don't like plastic guns, isn't a Sig 226 superior to a same size 1911 as a fighting weapon?

    I understand wanting to shoot a historic weapon. JMB was a genius and I will own a full size 1911 some day to go with my 7X57 Spanish Mauser. But I will carry a double stack when I can hide a large firearm.

  2. #2
    rex
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    The 1911 has been around for over a century and is most copied pistol around,there's a reason for that.There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 1911,it's plenty combat accurate,reliable and the weight makes it quite fast on followup shots compared to light plastic guns.The problem with their reliability is too many people deviate from spec and think they're building a better pistol,but the majority screw something up-Kimber and Remington are prime examples.

    I've carried one for decades,I'm not worried I have 8 and someone else has 10 or 12.Hoopdy doo,that what a spare mag is for IF you will need it.To summarize a SD situation,3-3-3.3ft,3 shots in 3 seconds,that's a workable average of what goes down.If some off the wall thing happens,I still have a 2.5lb hammer in my hand to pistol whip him with.One smack in the right spot and they'll melt into a pile of jellow to the ground.Although the real trick is to not be that close and avoid the situation before the interview starts,or at least nip it in the butt at the interview.

    Sig is a good gun but I wouldn't say superior.The only thing I would consider superior to a good 1911 is an HK45 or USP,but the compacts are still wider and hold the same 8 rounds.Having a good supply of ammo in the mag is a good thing,but it can also cause problems.Illinois wasn't real bad as I recall but NYPD were piss poor shots,then they started spraying the neighborhood with lead because they had 15 rounds instead of 6.False safety that can instill bad tactics.Every shot counts,and the first ones are the only ones that will save your hide,not the 8th to 15th.That is unless you're shooting a wimp gun through barriers it just can't overcome.

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    A good argument can be made that a person should carry something he likes to shoot, because he will practice more with it. Nearly everyone loves the feel of shooting the 1911, in my experience.

    In my case, I don't carry it often because striker fired semi-autos suit me better for a carry weapon, and I don't mind the wear and tear as much on a pistol that is already not very pretty. I usually carry a compact single-stack .45 anyway, so the 1911 is actually an increase in mag capacity for me, when I do carry it.

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    I have recently been through a similar thought process. I shared (and still share) your opinion that 15 x 40 is better than 8 x 45. As I did hours and hours of research trying to find my new gun (I inherited a boatload of old guns from my father but I wanted something new) I immediately dismissed the 1911 - not enough rounds, too expensive, confusing fiddly little differences between trims and manufacturers and HOLY CRAP THAT 1911 COSTS $5000 and all that business. Why was the 1911 so copied and fretted and obsessed over? I couldn't have told you. Classic, sure; historic, fine; attractive, of course, but the MATH says a 1911 is not worth it.

    Then I held one. Then a few more. In half an hour I think I palmed damn near every single 1911 in the shop. I haven't even fired one yet and I get it. There is a quality to the 1911 that is hard to define, a presence, a charisma, the way that heavy metal mother fits the hand with authority and the weight of war tested reliability. It is an amalgam of different factors and others here with more experience can describe them better than I can, but the end result is an incredible piece of hardware. There is more to it than the machine. In this case the math fails and the 1911 is more than the sum of it's parts.

    I just bought an FNX in 40, and I plan to enjoy and rely on that weapon. Heaven forbid I ever need to put a gun in my hand with the intent to use it on a living being, but if that day comes the FNX 40 is the one I will want. Still, I am looking forward to the day when I can hold a stainless Colt 1911 XSE Government and call it mine.

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    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty79 View Post
    Please don't think I am starting a flame war. I really want an answer to this. Other than people who live in PDRC (People Democratic Republic of California) or New Yorkistan, why would someone carry a single stack 45 ACP 1911 instead of an equivalent sized double stack 40 S&W or 9mm? With expanding bullets, the 40's stopping power is about the same as 45 ACP and you get 50% more. Even if you don't like plastic guns, isn't a Sig 226 superior to a same size 1911 as a fighting weapon?

    I understand wanting to shoot a historic weapon. JMB was a genius and I will own a full size 1911 some day to go with my 7X57 Spanish Mauser. But I will carry a double stack when I can hide a large firearm.

    Superior is a hard claim to make when comparing apples to oranges.

    The 1911 will always have a place. Even after 100 years it is still in service by our Military (although not the primary sidearm since 1985) that says a lot.

    Capacity is the biggest legitimate down fall of the 1911, but they carry very well for their size. They are very slim to they carry OWB better than most any other double stack.

    They are probably the most customizable guns around, you can get them a number of sizes and options up the yinyang.

    Yeah, they're heavy but the weight mitigates the recoil quite well.

    Because of the slim grip, they are favored by those with smaller hands that might not be able to get a good grip on a double stack.

    The trigger is awesome, and while others may poo-poo on the trigger, it amazes me when the same people try to make their Glock or M&P triggers more like the 1911.

    Yeah, some cost $5K, but some cost $550 too.

    They can be finicky, and starting to shop for one can be maddening as the market is flooded with different brands and styles.

    There are of course double stack 1911 in 9mm and .40, and even .45ACP.

    I still think that a 4" 1911 double stack (aka the 2011) in 9mm would be one heck of a carry gun.


    I carried one for quite a while until 8+1 wasn't as comforting and I finally found something that I shot better.

  6. #6
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    I never liked shooting 1911s when carrying in the service. Grip is too small. I build up the grip of my Gen 3 Glock. Ruger SR40 is perfect.

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    rex
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    "Grip is too small"-holy crap.I have average size hands and I find it just about perfect.I also don't have a problem with a Beretta 92 or fullsize USP,but a Smith 5900 series/Sig 226/Glock feels quite awkward.Big paws eh?Can't comment on the Ruger,the only auto of theirs I'd touch is the MKII or I.

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    BearTaylor is offline Junior Member
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    Accurate, crisp trigger pull, very quick to bring into action, thin profile, well balanced, shoots a big bullet with easy to control recoil, goes bang every time, lots of stock and custom parts available and the darned thing just looks good. I currently own four 1911's and there is always room for one more.

  9. #9
    shaolin's Avatar
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    I think 8-9 rds is enough for self defense. I never had to fire a gun in self defense and according to the FBI 4 shots is average being 2 from each person. Yea it's nice to have 19rds from a 9mm and there are times I carry a Glock or XDM for defense but think of it this way a Porsche will always beat a Pinto in a quarter mile race. Most gun fights are fast not drawn out over a period of minutes but mere seconds. Trust me a Kimber 1911 or S&W 1911 in my hands will end the fight in 3 seconds.

  10. #10
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    Sounds like it's a feel thing not an analytical thing. People will carry what they shoot well. A 1911 is easy to shoot well. The extra bullets are nice but very very... unlikely to be needed for first few rounds on target is key. Makes sense. I will still carry my striker fired stuff. But I understand why others don't.

  11. #11
    Water-Man's Avatar
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    It's tough to beat a 1911 for their trigger and accuracy.

    On the other hand, they're maintenance intensive and there aren't many good 1911 gunsmiths around any longer.

    Whether their ammunition capacity is enough or not is subjective.

  12. #12
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    My Springfield Professional, can't see giving it up for a Glock or an HD ...


  13. #13
    Robert1955 is offline Junior Member
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    Ummmmm.... because it's a 1911???? Very few things go pretty much unchanged for over 100 years and still rock the way a 1911 does. My first pistol purchase was a Glock 17 this year only because my State passed a stupid do nothing for safety 10 round mag limit going into effect on 10/01/2013. I still plan on a 1911, the Ruger SR1911 is my main target right now, and a 22 rimfire to round things out for now.

  14. #14
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckscap View Post
    My Springfield Professional, can't see giving it up for a Glock or an HD ...

    She's a beauty, one day I'm going to get SOMETHING from SACS.

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