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  1. #1
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    What's next? -> The UN Gun Ban, Obama's 2nd Term, and Conspiracy Theories

    What are your general thoughts about where we are headed next? I think that the country isn't going to go to hell or anything, I do not see good things for our liberties though in the future.

    What do you think about the UN Gun Ban that is still treading water? I hear the government is buying tons of .40 cal ammunition and that we may be reduced to only being able to own guns calibers .38 and lower.

    Personally, I think both Romney and Obama would make very bad presidents.

  2. #2
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
    SouthernBoy is online now Senior Member
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    The ominous picture is much larger than private firearms ownership in our nation. The biggest and most dangerous threat is the significant move towards socialism that has taken place over the last nearly four years and that will no doubt continue under this man's second term. Couple this with the deliberate creation of a permanent entitlement class, begun in the 1930's and accelerated in the 1960's, and one will quickly see that future national elections are going to be very difficult for any conservative or constitutionalist candidates. We have moved so far away from the Original Intent that there are now significant numbers of "Americans" who view anyone who holds the Founders and the Original Intent in reverence to be somewhat weird and politically out of touch. This just opens the door wider for all manner of evil to be done in our land.

    It is quite possible that in the rather near future, say within ten years, that the only remedy left will be secession. As wild as that may seem, keep in mind that the percentage of people who are the takers of wealth is getting pretty close to that of the creators of wealth. Staying on this path leads only to the destruction of our once great nation. Wealth creators will seek avenues to protect their wealth or will simply drop out and let the country boil in its own morass. In any case, it is not a pretty picture of a glowing future for the United States. Incidentally by wealth creators, I do not mean only the rich or wealthy. This class includes entrepreneurs, business owners, upper professionals (think doctors, etc.), investors... you get the picture. Those who create wealth for not only themselves but others as well. Remove the incentive for them to succeed and you remove the fruits of their labors.

    So this election is far more than what it might seem on the surface. Yes, firearms ownership is in danger. But that is largely a state issue in many areas so the feds' hands are tied to a degree. For example, the federal government could not ban concealed carry because it is not them who issues permits to do this. And even if they did, most states recognize open carry so just do that. You're not going to see moves against carrying arms at the federal level. More insidious would be bans on certain semi-automatic rifles (what they like to call "assault weapons"), magazines with more than 10-round capacity, and certain types of handguns. This is what was done in 1994 and I suspect we'll see serious moves in this direction again. As for UN gun bans, I don't see that taking place here.... yet. Perhaps some years down the road, but not yet.

    The economy is not going to do well mostly because business' confidence in the market and their willingness to make long-term and extensive capital investments is not there. So look forward to continued problems in the economy and the market for the next four years. Couple this with Obamacare kicking in in 2014 and then making moves towards single payer status and you can bet the pool of doctors will recede as the number of patients increases. Not good at all. The end result of this will be massive intrusion into every aspect of out lives under the guise of the common good, along with entitlements approaching 90% of the federal budget and where is the money going to come from for military expenses... among other non-entitlement budget items? It's going to be a mess.

    One of our Founders said that when the people find out that they can vote themselves largess from the treasury, then that will be the end of the nation. What we may very well be witnessing here is this very thing.

  3. #3
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Don't forget the Supreme court.......

  4. #4
    goNYG's Avatar
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    I'm more or less in agreement with Southern Boy. I don't have a good pulse on how bad the 2A restrictions will be, but there is no cause for optimism, the best case is that only slight pessimism is warranted. I do however have a good beat on the economy and I am devoutly pessimistic. Businesses are going to hide under their desks for another few years, taking very little risk. The fiscal imbalances at every level will get worse and with these things the corrective doesn't come in slow linear fashion, they are prone to sharp blow-ups. It is now clear to me, although I suspected it would be the case, that politics can't solve the fiscal imbalances, only ruthless economics can. We will inflate away the debt or the bond market will demand fiscal discipline through sharply higher interest rates. The one or two healthy sectors of the economy will be strangled and the inefficient and wasteful sectors of the economy will be fed government largesse. I especially fear for the small business owner who typically drives a pick-up or a van - plumbers, dry-wallers, stone masons, landscapers, etc. Tens of thousands of families like mine are hunkering down, which means no new patio, no bathroom reno, etc. It's gonna be bad.

  5. #5
    goNYG's Avatar
    goNYG is offline Member
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    I forgot to add...no bitching. We asked for everything we'll get, good and hard...

  6. #6
    rex
    rex is online now Senior Member
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    Welcome to the U.S.S.A.,the reality of New World Order just intensified.Hopefully Congress stalls any socialist activity that's sure to come.If we can make it another 4 years,well,I don't even want to think about it seeing what he's done to us already.Thank God the world will end next month.

  7. #7
    rjrudolph is offline Junior Member
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    No we all didn't ask for this. The ignorant liberals asked for this. I'm in college with a young son and I don't know how in the hell I'm going to find a decent job when I graduate in a year to be able to support my family with the economic troubles Obama won't be able to get us out of, in fact I believe it will get worse but you can guarantee I won't be taking any of Obama's handouts. I believe you work for what you get. The biggest problem is too many people believe they deserve to have everything handed to them and thats why they voted for him. Mostly the minorities which are now becoming the majority. So I sure as hell didn't ask for this.

  8. #8
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    No protection for our people overseas, $6.00 a gallon gas, no drilling, $20,000.00 a year health insurance, more green energy that goes bankrupt...that's what you have to look forward to, along with no budget, and gridlock with everything else.........maybe free turbines?

  9. #9
    goNYG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjrudolph View Post
    No we all didn't ask for this. The ignorant liberals asked for this. I'm in college with a young son and I don't know how in the hell I'm going to find a decent job when I graduate in a year to be able to support my family with the economic troubles Obama won't be able to get us out of, in fact I believe it will get worse but you can guarantee I won't be taking any of Obama's handouts. I believe you work for what you get. The biggest problem is too many people believe they deserve to have everything handed to them and thats why they voted for him. Mostly the minorities which are now becoming the majority. So I sure as hell didn't ask for this.
    I get what you are saying and I don't feel I asked for this either, but I mean this by way of our lack of civic engagement. There were thousands of milemarkers along the way to this that each and every one of us didn't fight and resist. We didn't wake up yesterday with entitlement-besotted hordes desperate for Other People's Money as handouts. We didn't wake up yesterday with an ignorant, self-centered celebrity-obsessed youth cohort. All that built up over time. How? We all missed the signs and were sleeping. This was not just an election, this was the ability to make prudent judgements vanishing. Somewhere along the line we stopped valuing and rewarding wisdom and judgement, thus it is in vastly lower supply.

  10. #10
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
    SouthernBoy is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by goNYG View Post
    I get what you are saying and I don't feel I asked for this either, but I mean this by way of our lack of civic engagement. There were thousands of milemarkers along the way to this that each and every one of us didn't fight and resist. We didn't wake up yesterday with entitlement-besotted hordes desperate for Other People's Money as handouts. We didn't wake up yesterday with an ignorant, self-centered celebrity-obsessed youth cohort. All that built up over time. How? We all missed the signs and were sleeping. This was not just an election, this was the ability to make prudent judgements vanishing. Somewhere along the line we stopped valuing and rewarding wisdom and judgement, thus it is in vastly lower supply.
    Not all of us missed it. The problem is, not enough people paused to take notice and realize where this would inevitably lead. This was, and is, no accident. It is deliberate and by design.

  11. #11
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    I don't personally think our gun rights are in danger because it has historically proven to be such a none starter but I also thought Romney had a very good chance at winning the white house so what the heck do I know. We are heading into uncharted waters.

  12. #12
    johnr is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuefelhunden View Post
    We are heading into uncharted waters.
    no, the waterway is charted, we just have to chose which chanel will deliver us to safe haven.

    the current chanel is narrow and leads us through many shallows that will need to be navigated carefully!

    our current captain will need adequate look-outs to avoid the shoals along this chanel.

    perhaps, we have elected the representatives that will help guide us allong this chanel....


    tymll

    john

  13. #13
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Wow, didn't expect these types of responses. I feel the exact same way tho as most of you. Frequently people would say alot of this stuff we are talking about is conspiracy or that one of two lame duck political parties is the answer

  14. #14
    Harryball's Avatar
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  15. #15
    goNYG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuefelhunden View Post
    I don't personally think our gun rights are in danger because it has historically proven to be such a none starter but I also thought Romney had a very good chance at winning the white house so what the heck do I know. We are heading into uncharted waters.
    I respect all opinions of this ilk, they sound grounded in practicality to me. But digested this...Barack Obama just won an historic re-election, what's one of the first things he wants the world to know about his second term? What is so important that he has to get it out there riding the wave of media coverage that is pining for a clue as to what Our Great Maximum Leader will do...? UN Arms Treaty.

  16. #16
    Tuefelhunden is offline Member
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    Like I said what do I know. I merely speculate. He/they may indeed try it but there will be hell to pay. Few politicians would have the fortitude to weather the cost. The personal cost.

    My opinion 90% of them survival and re-election is what drives them not ideology grounded in principle. Beyond mere speculation, except for a few cases such as Pelosi in CA, this issue has historically been a political career killer. I'm from far left Oregon. Ron Wyden is politically speaking dead man walking if he endorsed this beyond some tepid rhetoric. He knows it. This is one topic that appears on the surface to be firmly rooted only in the GOP but in reality the issue plays across all party lines. If only all issues were so simple. Even someone I consider to be as vile and reprehensible as a Harry Reid has a high rating from the NRA. Shocking but true. I personally think he'd sell his momma to a Sunni if he thought it was to his advantage to do so but he knows where his bread is buttered. It isn't Obummer who keeps him in office term after term. And bar all else that is what counts.

    Yes Obama is a true believer in his ideology and on his last term so no doubt he thinks this is on the table. He can afford to be delusional. Others will no doubt join in to pay lip service to the idea but party line gum running is a far cry from putting ones own career on the line to see it done come vote time. Doesn't mean we don't keep up the good fight by participating and educating best we can, engaging in discussion on forums such as this, through the NRA, etc. Our never ceasing din of objection is what keeps these clowns in check on this issue at least out of fear. If only the majority of Americans were as united and boisterous about the rest of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We'd be in a far different place. I guess we'll soon see what happens. I've been wrong before.

  17. #17
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
    SouthernBoy is online now Senior Member
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    A UN Small Arms treaty that would impact the private ownership, use, and carry of arms in this country would be both illegal and nearly impossible to get through the senate. This is in theory and we know what happens to such things in the real world of current America.

    It would be illegal because for the president to sign such a treaty, he would be performing an illegal action which would be treasonous. Recall that he takes an oath which states;

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so help me God."

    The operative part here is "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States". If he signs a treaty which in essence, violates any part of the Constitution, which includes the Bill of Rights, he is instantly in violation of his oath of office. That's the first part. The second part is getting it through the senate. This requires a two-thirds majority vote before it can be passed. Now here's the rub.

    We all know that presidents down through the ages have violated the Constitution and the Bill of Rights with a free pass and nearly no one has called them on their trespasses. So you can bet the press is not about to scream and holler if Obama signs a UN treaty on the control of small arms, even if it affects our own citizens. Hell, they'd welcome it. But the real worry is a small item in the senate vote which could be the nail in the coffin for gun owners.

    The senate requires a two-thirds vote as I mentioned. But what most folks don't realize is that this requirement is two-thirds present. So in effect, those members of the senate bent on passing such a treaty could meet at 2:00am Christmas morning and cast their votes. They would be the ones present and this would satisfy the Constitutional requirement. This could be the straw that breaks the will of the people and their liberty.

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